Camshaft Crossroads - Summit Comparison - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion

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Camshaft Crossroads - Summit Comparison

 
Old 01-25-2019, 12:16 PM
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Default Camshaft Crossroads - Summit Comparison

As if there are not enough threads full of camshaft questions I'll throw another one at the board.

I just picked up a '99 Camaro w/stock internals as far as I have been told, has Hooker Blackheart mid-length headers with their dual exhaust system, FTI 4000 converter, Frost tune, SLP lid. and Racestar wheels. The only weight removed is the front sway bar and spare tire/jack. It has run 12.0's at M.I.R. I am east of Pittsburgh so I'd guess that 12.0 would be 12.3+ or so at Keystone Raceway which is close to me.

I will use the car for weekend bracket races and the occasional drive to work and around town in the summer. This wont be the beast that I would like it to be, not yet anyway. The car has 142K miles, runs good, but I am not pulling the heads at this point. What is baffling is the casting # has been milled off the heads. The previous owner wasn't aware if they had been changed or not.

So my plan is only to swap to an LS6 intake and add a small cam and tune it myself. I was looking at the following cams:
Summit SUM-8701 Stg 2 truck 218/227 .523/.524 112, $297.99, The GM hot cam copy, big noise, small power
Summit SUM-8715 Stg 1 LS 222/223 600/575 115+3, $289.99, Mavn's Ghost cam
Summit SUM-8715 Stg 2 LS 226/238 600/600 113+3, $289.99
Summit's competitor 555-200582 228/230 585/585 112, $269.99

Keeping in mind this isn't max effort, rather a price play for this upcoming season, not pulling heads, not changing lifters only valve springs and seals. And not knowing if the heads have been milled, I like the last two cams, and can hopefully get a feel for PTV once I would install w/o pulling the heads. So go ahead, flame on, all comments welcome.

Last edited by ironmanLS1; 01-25-2019 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:57 PM
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Our high lift hot cam is another choice to throw in there, but with a 4k stall and those med cams you would kill your power band when it flashes or launching.
Our high lift asa cam would be a much better option. 499 for cam and pac1219 beehives.
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Our high lift hot cam is another choice to throw in there, but with a 4k stall and those med cams you would kill your power band when it flashes or launching.
Our high lift asa cam would be a much better option. 499 for cam and pac1219 beehives.
Thanks, also a good option.
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:30 PM
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I just put the stage 2 in my trans am . And its punchy . Not even tuned yet . It hits nice at idle I'm loving it
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Old 01-26-2019, 01:12 PM
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I'd say the Summit stage 2 cam. Similar duration to my BTR stage 2 which drives almost like stock but lopes more.
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Old 01-26-2019, 03:02 PM
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My curiosity is getting to me as far as what these heads are.

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Old 01-26-2019, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by wannafbody View Post
I'd say the Summit stage 2 cam. Similar duration to my BTR stage 2 which drives almost like stock but lopes more.
I had a BTR stage 4 in a previous car and it drove decent with a good tune.

Im leaning toward that Summit stage 2.
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Old 01-26-2019, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ironmanLS1 View Post
As if there are not enough threads full of camshaft questions I'll throw another one at the board.

I just picked up a '99 Camaro w/stock internals as far as I have been told, has Hooker Blackheart mid-length headers with their dual exhaust system, FTI 4000 converter, Frost tune, SLP lid. and Racestar wheels. The only weight removed is the front sway bar and spare tire/jack. It has run 12.0's at M.I.R. I am east of Pittsburgh so I'd guess that 12.0 would be 12.3+ or so at Keystone Raceway which is close to me.

I will use the car for weekend bracket races and the occasional drive to work and around town in the summer. This wont be the beast that I would like it to be, not yet anyway. The car has 142K miles, runs good, but I am not pulling the heads at this point. What is baffling is the casting # has been milled off the heads. The previous owner wasn't aware if they had been changed or not.

So my plan is only to swap to an LS6 intake and add a small cam and tune it myself. I was looking at the following cams:
Summit SUM-8701 Stg 2 truck 218/227 .523/.524 112, $297.99, The GM hot cam copy, big noise, small power
Summit SUM-8715 Stg 1 LS 222/223 600/575 115+3, $289.99, Mavn's Ghost cam
Summit SUM-8715 Stg 2 LS 226/238 600/600 113+3, $289.99
Summit's competitor 555-200582 228/230 585/585 112, $269.99

Keeping in mind this isn't max effort, rather a price play for this upcoming season, not pulling heads, not changing lifters only valve springs and seals. And not knowing if the heads have been milled, I like the last two cams, and can hopefully get a feel for PTV once I would install w/o pulling the heads. So go ahead, flame on, all comments welcome.
Small typo........ the sum-8715 should be 222/233 ......... as for your heads clean off the ends of heads front of motor , many porters or rebuilders stamp date customer info and such . Some times laser etched logos are polished down by owners to keep a sleeper effect, so look hard .it may be difficult to see a first , try lead pencil transfer it may come up.. Or lift a valve cover to reveal casting numbers between bosses !
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Old 01-26-2019, 04:44 PM
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That Stage 2 will make you very happy! Youíll ge surprised the power you get out of it with just the right amount of civility
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Old 01-26-2019, 11:21 PM
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pull valve cover off to see casting numbers, pull the intake to see if they are ported.
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Old 01-27-2019, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ironmanLS1 View Post
My curiosity is getting to me as far as what these heads are.
There aren't numbers on the other end of the head?

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Old 01-27-2019, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Mavn View Post
I just put the stage 2 in my trans am . And its punchy . Not even tuned yet . It hits nice at idle I'm loving it
have you felt any tq loss with the stg 2 down low compared to the stg 1 you had with the same intake and exhaust?
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Old 01-27-2019, 10:03 AM
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One thing is for sure. Youíve got the converter for a big a$$ cam. If this is a mild street car and looking at the cams youíre considering you might wanna drop down to a converter in the low 3ís.
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Old 01-27-2019, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Summitracing View Post
That Stage 2 will make you very happy! Youíll ge surprised the power you get out of it with just the right amount of civility
I'd say that is my first choice.

Originally Posted by onebadbowtie86 View Post
pull valve cover off to see casting numbers, pull the intake to see if they are ported.
Good point, I am swapping intakes so I'll get an idea then. Nothing is indicating anything taken off the face, but some work had to be done somewhere. You wouldn't mill the head number off for no reason at all.
Originally Posted by LLLosingit View Post
There aren't numbers on the other end of the head?
None, same deal, machined off.

Originally Posted by td1168 View Post
One thing is for sure. Youíve got the converter for a big a$$ cam. If this is a mild street car and looking at the cams youíre considering you might wanna drop down to a converter in the low 3ís.
It came with the car when I purchased it so it will work as well as I need it to, maybe not optimum for this upcoming season. I ran the same converter in a prior car with a Tick Street Heat Stage 2 and then a BTR Stage 4. The Summit LS Stage 2 reminds me of how well that Tick cam and converter combo worked together. And it worked as well as the BTR cam for the combo I had. I have plans for the car that extend beyond this summer. So I know I will spend twice the $ doing a cam swap this winter and hopefully one the next. It probably wont be optimum, but will get the job done.

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Old 01-27-2019, 05:04 PM
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Well, nothing special non-ported 853 heads. No markings if they had a cut on the face or not. I did find a ported throttle body however.
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Old 02-10-2019, 09:29 PM
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Couldn't make up my mind what I wanted to do, no cam, small cam, medium cam. Finally decided to pull the heads off and see what I got.

I know the intake had been off before but can't tell about the heads yet. The lifters look great at 140K+ miles although I am going to replace them with new ones.

Just ordered the Summit stage 2 LS cam. Looking forward to seeing what it will do come spring.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:38 AM
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by td1168 View Post
One thing is for sure. Youíve got the converter for a big a$$ cam. If this is a mild street car and looking at the cams youíre considering you might wanna drop down to a converter in the low 3ís.
Negative, even stock cam Ls1's love 4000 stalls.

A 4000 stall will be absolutely perfect for what the op is looking to do. Op would be leaving a lot on the table with shift extensions if op were to go to a 3200 as opposed to the current 4000 with the planned setup.
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 98CayenneT/A View Post
Negative, even stock cam Ls1's love 4000 stalls.

A 4000 stall will be absolutely perfect for what the op is looking to do. Op would be leaving a lot on the table with shift extensions if op were to go to a 3200 as opposed to the current 4000 with the planned setup.
why do you say he will be leaving alot on the table? i talked with summit and they said the 3200 stall would work very nicely with there stg2 cam. i sometimes fine that a 4000 is a little lazy on the road but at the track it might shine more then on the road. maybe a 3600 is a happy place.
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackbird-WS6 View Post
why do you say he will be leaving alot on the table? i talked with summit and they said the 3200 stall would work very nicely with there stg2 cam. i sometimes fine that a 4000 is a little lazy on the road but at the track it might shine more then on the road. maybe a 3600 is a happy place.
Either of them will work, it's not a matter of working though.

The 4000 will come out of the hole harder and be a little faster down the track due to the higher STR and shift extensions.

I had a Yank SS3800, after having it I wouldn't go smaller, if I did the smallest would be a 3600. And I had a stock cam. It was also a daily driver that saw 500-1000 miles a week. On a street car I also think 4k is enough. 3600-4000 is a great stall on a F body. I'd say leave the 4k and higher for the track duty cars and weekend warriors.
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