Max rpm for 2001 ls1 short block
02-25-2020, 10:36 PM
#1
Max rpm for 2001 ls1 short block I'm looking to get the most out of my car for the season. The car is currently heads Cam. I have TFS 215 heads and a custom ground cam. Currently the limiter is set to 6800 rpm. I have heard multiple things everywhere from anything over 6500 is not safe to just keep it under 7500. The cam specs are 235 Degrees On the intake and take and 239 on the exhaust at 50 on a 111 split with 2 degrees advanced. At what point do you call it quits on the spinomeater? I'm looking for a little bit more technical Answer then I've spun mine to thus amount for the last so many miles.
Last edited by c4boom; 02-25-2020 at 11:33 PM.
02-26-2020, 08:04 AM
#4
IIRC - owned an LS since early 1999 so this what i recall. Someone please feel free to correct if I've miss remembered.
The LS1 rod bolts were upgraded for 2001 model year for all LS engines. The 2001 z06 had a factory redline of 6,500 rpm. So a far as rod bolts go any of the 01+ LS1/LS6 should be ok to 6,500 rpm. Many have went 7,000 -7,200 rpm without rod bolt issues. I'd feel ok pushing 7,000 to 7,200 rpm with the 2001 and up rod bolts if everything else was in order.
With the original 97-00 rod bolt there was some concern that repeated visits more than 6,500 rpm could cause the rod bolt to eventually stretch and fail. Pushed my heads & cam 99 TA to 6,800 rpm many times no issues. With good valve springs I'd still be confident twisting my 99 TA's to 6,800 rpm today. That as about as hard as I want to push a 97-00 rod bolt.
Of course stress adds up over time so what was ok 20+ years ago when the LS1 was new might be a little more risky 20 years later.
The LS1 rod bolts were upgraded for 2001 model year for all LS engines. The 2001 z06 had a factory redline of 6,500 rpm. So a far as rod bolts go any of the 01+ LS1/LS6 should be ok to 6,500 rpm. Many have went 7,000 -7,200 rpm without rod bolt issues. I'd feel ok pushing 7,000 to 7,200 rpm with the 2001 and up rod bolts if everything else was in order.
With the original 97-00 rod bolt there was some concern that repeated visits more than 6,500 rpm could cause the rod bolt to eventually stretch and fail. Pushed my heads & cam 99 TA to 6,800 rpm many times no issues. With good valve springs I'd still be confident twisting my 99 TA's to 6,800 rpm today. That as about as hard as I want to push a 97-00 rod bolt.
Of course stress adds up over time so what was ok 20+ years ago when the LS1 was new might be a little more risky 20 years later.
02-26-2020, 08:26 AM
#5
TECH Junkie
I spin my '98 sbe to 7100 constantly.
I go to a road course event once a year and in a 2 day span it will see 7100 rpms 200+ times. With the converter I run I see shift extensions around 6300 rpms so my car literally lives between 6500-7100 rpms. I am not much nicer to my car on the streets either.
Imo the rod bolt thing has been blown WAY out of proportion but with that said im willing to accept the consequences lol.
I go to a road course event once a year and in a 2 day span it will see 7100 rpms 200+ times. With the converter I run I see shift extensions around 6300 rpms so my car literally lives between 6500-7100 rpms. I am not much nicer to my car on the streets either.
Imo the rod bolt thing has been blown WAY out of proportion but with that said im willing to accept the consequences lol.
02-26-2020, 03:29 PM
#7
I read that rod bolts were upgraded in 99. Not sure if that's 100% accurate(at least there was a part number change). 6800-7000 should be fine for an occasional burst, some have gone higher. Over 7000 the roller lifters tend to quit functioning at peak performance.
Last edited by wannafbody; 02-26-2020 at 07:35 PM.
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02-26-2020, 05:34 PM
#10
I'm looking to get the most out of my car for the season. The car is currently heads Cam. I have TFS 215 heads and a custom ground cam. Currently the limiter is set to 6800 rpm. I have heard multiple things everywhere from anything over 6500 is not safe to just keep it under 7500. The cam specs are 235 Degrees On the intake and take and 239 on the exhaust at 50 on a 111 split with 2 degrees advanced. At what point do you call it quits on the spinomeater? I'm looking for a little bit more technical Answer then I've spun mine to thus amount for the last so many miles.
Most keep it at 7k
Beyond that most people don't have the valve train or setup to rev higher anyway
Some that really push it are going 7500 or so.
SLP IROC is insane and spins his up around 7500 and bangs the rev limiter on launches at like 7300. But he is a crazy person (lol just messing with ya man)
However he hasn't broke yet
The most technical way to find out what something will take is to push it till it breaks. Just the way the game goes.
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02-26-2020, 06:10 PM
#15
TECH Regular
Its only the real early pre 99 Rod bolts you have to be concerned about, they are easily identified as they have one dot on head and tapered shank.
I have a 99 LS1 and I have the latter stronger two dot Rod bolts becuase 99 is the year they started transitioning them. The two dots have a higher torque setting.
I think the ls6 bolts were slightly different again and throw a third Bolt into the mix, that's where some of the confusion comes from.
I spent a lot of time researching this with my recent 99 build.
I have a 99 LS1 and I have the latter stronger two dot Rod bolts becuase 99 is the year they started transitioning them. The two dots have a higher torque setting.
I think the ls6 bolts were slightly different again and throw a third Bolt into the mix, that's where some of the confusion comes from.
I spent a lot of time researching this with my recent 99 build.
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02-26-2020, 08:07 PM
#17
TECH Regular
Quote
Are 2nd design rod bolts the same as gen 4 rod bolts?
No there a different part number, and from memory I think there is a small difference with the insert bushing on it.
I found quite a number of threads about pre 99 Rod bolts failing even at low rpm but I'm not sure it's possible to accurately attribute cause in these cases.
Id say the recommended higher torque setting is a sure indicator they are weaker than the latter 2nd design 2 dot rod bolts.
see
https://help.summitracing.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5186/~/what-is-the-difference-between-1st-and-2nd-design-rod-bolts%3F
Are 2nd design rod bolts the same as gen 4 rod bolts?
No there a different part number, and from memory I think there is a small difference with the insert bushing on it.
I found quite a number of threads about pre 99 Rod bolts failing even at low rpm but I'm not sure it's possible to accurately attribute cause in these cases.
Id say the recommended higher torque setting is a sure indicator they are weaker than the latter 2nd design 2 dot rod bolts.
see
https://help.summitracing.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5186/~/what-is-the-difference-between-1st-and-2nd-design-rod-bolts%3F
Last edited by TimsLS1; 02-26-2020 at 08:14 PM.
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02-26-2020, 08:35 PM
#18
I would not worry about taking a 2001 rod bolt to 7k all day every day. That's where most people kept the rev limiters on LS1's back in the 2000's when everyone everywhere had one and we were all turning them up. They all stayed together too. That being the case, the limit was obviously higher than 7000
I was still banging my **** out to 6900 every single day until I sold the car with 190k miles on it, the next two owners did the same until someone totaled it at 220k.
But I also agree I wouldn't compare what gen 4 internals can do to a gen 3
Gen 4 stuff is apparently made from ubertanium.
I was still banging my **** out to 6900 every single day until I sold the car with 190k miles on it, the next two owners did the same until someone totaled it at 220k.
But I also agree I wouldn't compare what gen 4 internals can do to a gen 3
Gen 4 stuff is apparently made from ubertanium.
02-26-2020, 08:53 PM
#19
ModSquad
iTrader: (6)
Your limiter is set at 6800 currently. My question for you is, is it still pulling at 6800? If it’s out of air at 6800, no sense spinning it higher. If it’s still got something left at 6800, bump the limiter up to 7k, and do a pass.
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02-26-2020, 10:00 PM
#20
The original question is when do you call it quits on the spinometer
The answer is when it doesn't make you go any faster
You have a large cam, that usually loves to spin. But it's also on a 111 lsa and advanced, that pulls the rev range back down some.
Transmission you're using and gearing make a big difference here too. Converter also. If you have large jumps in rpm from gear to gear. Stretching it out helps. If you have a big stall or 6 or 8 speed trans revving it to the moon wont help much. 4L60 with wide *** ratio's and a stock converter.. it helps to rev it out.
Short answer, listen to Scott. Scott left smart answer.