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Facts! But I don't think the baby cam guys want to mess with spec'ing a converter, gears, or even race at high RPM. Personally I don't get the desire for more torque in a street car, even a 5.3 will spin slicks on the street if you have the desire.
We can measure and compare many things like ... dyno numbers, track times, etc. Since most of us will never run into each other it’s easier to make a claim like “I will win stop light to stop light” because the race will never happen and we can’t compare times to dispute the claim. Not everyone has “big” cams for the sound either as long as it backs it up with performance and meets the owners goals then the trade offs are well worth it.
For the guy with a 1500 truck with a 5.3 who tows on occasion, a cam that delivers 10-20# more torque from 1500 RPM on up serves a good purpose. It looks like CM's and Tooley's truck cams do just that, and that kind of difference MIGHT mean the difference between downshifting or not on some hills. It is NOT about the Stoplight Gran Prix....
The first guy to bring up this topic specifically mentioned beating guys with big cams stop light to stop light so the post is relevant. Now we are moving the goal posts and talking about trucks pulling uphill lol ...
The first guy to bring up this topic specifically mentioned beating guys with big cams stop light to stop light so the post is relevant. Now we are moving the goal posts and talking about trucks pulling uphill lol ...
That is who the truck cams are specifically aimed at. Now if they are good at stomping the boy racers.... all the better!
For the guy with a 1500 truck with a 5.3 who tows on occasion, a cam that delivers 10-20# more torque from 1500 RPM on up serves a good purpose. It looks like CM's and Tooley's truck cams do just that, and that kind of difference MIGHT mean the difference between downshifting or not on some hills. It is NOT about the Stoplight Gran Prix....
I feel bad for any 5.3 truck that has to tow anything or anyone that cares about downshifting
Originally Posted by G Atsma
That is who the truck cams are specifically aimed at. Now if they are good at stomping the boy racers.... all the better!
All the boy racers I know have forced induction
I feel bad for any 5.3 truck that has to tow anything or anyone that cares about downshifting
You are speaking of a huge number of 1/2 ton pickup owners who do moderate towing, who could use a little boost in power throughout the RPM range. These cams do that nicely.
You really need to broaden your horizons and lose the tunnel vision that we all need 6.0 or better truck engines, and that all "boy racers" run hair dryers... what a narrow view...
That is who the truck cams are specifically aimed at. Now if they are good at stomping the boy racers.... all the better!
Now we are insulting anyone who doesn’t run a stage one truck cam in their car lol. This boy is 46 years old and had a lot of different combos. I can tune and baby cams are over rated. If I want more low end more compression and cubic inches is my preference.
Here is my lopey cam motion cam and no I didn’t buy it for sound. I filled out their form with my combo and goals and they spec’d it for me. It meets my goals well...car ran 6.18 in the 1/8th and stop and go driving is no issue at 3900 lbs race weight.
You are speaking of a huge number of 1/2 ton pickup owners who do moderate towing, who could use a little boost in power throughout the RPM range. These cams do that nicely.
You rally need to broaden your horizons and lose the tunnel vision that we all need 6.0 or better truck engines, and that all "boy racers" run hair dryers... what a narrow view...
It wasn’t a narrow view by you and others here to dismiss “big cams” because they don’t fit your goals?
We all have different goals so who are we to dismiss any products that don’t fit our individual use and goals?
Now we are insulting anyone who doesn’t run a stage one truck cam in their car lol. This boy is 46 years old and had a lot of different combos. I can tune and baby cams are over rated. If I want more low end more compression and cubic inches is my preference.
Here is my lopey cam motion cam and no I didn’t buy it for sound. I filled out their form with my combo and goals and they spec’d it for me. It meets my goals well...car ran 6.18 in the 1/8th and stop and go driving is no issue at 3900 lbs race weight.
Hey, you use what is needed. SLOW SEDAN was the one I was aiming at with the truck comments, BUT I am also all about thinking outside the box! If a "truck cam" can rock your car, go for it! And if in the right situation, a little lope sounds pretty good! But my main point is, there are THOUSANDS of 5.3 truck owners looking for a little extra to get them upthe hill while pulling the boat/camping trailer. Truck cams do that to a "T".
You are speaking of a huge number of 1/2 ton pickup owners who do moderate towing, who could use a little boost in power throughout the RPM range. These cams do that nicely.
You rally need to broaden your horizons and lose the tunnel vision that we all need 6.0 or better truck engines, and that all "boy racers" run hair dryers... what a narrow view...
Everyone I know with a 1500 regrets it then gets a diesel if they want to tow, I skipped that step and went straight to a diesel. As far as tunnel vision I never said anything about a 6.0, in fact I like 5.3's but for an entirely different purpose. In the car scene around here you really have to hunt for someone that doesn't have a blower or turbo, just the way it is these days. Not all of us are limited by Cali's ridiculous emissions and modification laws.
5.3 towed my lawn equipment just fine and tows my buddies framing trailer great for the past 10 years. You need to get your brain checked if you think that the 5.3 doesn't have it's spot in the towing pyramid lol
Everyone I know with a 1500 regrets it then gets a diesel if they want to tow, I skipped that step and went straight to a diesel. As far as tunnel vision I never said anything about a 6.0, in fact I like 5.3's but for an entirely different purpose. In the car scene around here you really have to hunt for someone that doesn't have a blower or turbo, just the way it is these days. Not all of us are limited by Cali's ridiculous emissions and modification laws.
Heavy towing, yes, get a diesel to begin with.
But for those using a 1500 which mostly is all that is needed, when pulling a boat or smaller camping trailer, the bit of kick given by these cams is welcome
Lets look at the effects of intake manifold type on camshaft selection.
The camshafts used for the this comparison will be the JunkYard Dog Cathedral Port Cam vs the Titan King LS1 Cam
JunkYard Dog Cathedral Port Cam: 232/244 on 111+4 .621"/.604"
Titan King LS1 Cam: 236/244 112+3 .621"/.604
These two cams have the exact same valve events except for one. The Titan King LS1 has a 4 degree later IVC than the JunkYard Dog Cathedral Port
JunkYard Dog Cathedral Port: 9 degree IVO, 43 degree IVC, 57 degree EVO, 7 degree EVC
Titan King Cathedral Port: 9 degree IVO, 47 degree IVC, 57 degree EVO, 7 degree EVC
The first test is the 6 liter with 706 heads and the TBSS intake.
This 2nd test is the 6 liter with 706 heads and the SuperVic intake.
As you see, the long runner plastic TBSS intake appreciated the later intake valve close event much sooner than the Super Vic intake. The Titan King LS1 Cam did not surpass the JunkYard Dog Cathedral Port Cam until 6500 RPM when used with the short runner Super Vic. This is why we made a different camshaft for Single Plane manifolds.
Last edited by CAMMOTION PERF; 07-07-2021 at 06:19 PM.
Funny how the small cam guys think that tiny bit more TQ they have at low rpm means they’ll beat everyone stop light to stop light.
Like gears, converter, tires, suspension, and driver can’t make up for that tiny low rpm torque advantage and put them in an rpm range to take advantage of the huge power advantage they made in higher rpms.
It’s about the combo and these dyno results should help someone pick the correct converter, gears, etc for the cam they are using.
Originally Posted by SLOW SEDAN
Facts! But I don't think the baby cam guys want to mess with spec'ing a converter, gears, or even race at high RPM. Personally I don't get the desire for more torque in a street car, even a 5.3 will spin slicks on the street if you have the desire.
Originally Posted by G Atsma
For the guy with a 1500 truck with a 5.3 who tows on occasion, a cam that delivers 10-20# more torque from 1500 RPM on up serves a good purpose. It looks like CM's and Tooley's truck cams do just that, and that kind of difference MIGHT mean the difference between downshifting or not on some hills. It is NOT about the Stoplight Gran Prix....
Originally Posted by BCNUL8R
We can measure and compare many things like ... dyno numbers, track times, etc. Since most of us will never run into each other it’s easier to make a claim like “I will win stop light to stop light” because the race will never happen and we can’t compare times to dispute the claim. Not everyone has “big” cams for the sound either as long as it backs it up with performance and meets the owners goals then the trade offs are well worth it.
Originally Posted by BCNUL8R
The first guy to bring up this topic specifically mentioned beating guys with big cams stop light to stop light so the post is relevant. Now we are moving the goal posts and talking about trucks pulling uphill lol ...
Originally Posted by G Atsma
That is who the truck cams are specifically aimed at. Now if they are good at stomping the boy racers.... all the better!
Originally Posted by SLOW SEDAN
I feel bad for any 5.3 truck that has to tow anything or anyone that cares about downshifting
All the boy racers I know have forced induction
Originally Posted by G Atsma
You are speaking of a huge number of 1/2 ton pickup owners who do moderate towing, who could use a little boost in power throughout the RPM range. These cams do that nicely.
You rally need to broaden your horizons and lose the tunnel vision that we all need 6.0 or better truck engines, and that all "boy racers" run hair dryers... what a narrow view...
Originally Posted by shakenfake
Hey Slow Sedan if I strap a leaf blower on my engine can I join the cool kids club?
Originally Posted by BCNUL8R
Now we are insulting anyone who doesn’t run a stage one truck cam in their car lol. This boy is 46 years old and had a lot of different combos. I can tune and baby cams are over rated. If I want more low end more compression and cubic inches is my preference.
Here is my lopey cam motion cam and no I didn’t buy it for sound. I filled out their form with my combo and goals and they spec’d it for me. It meets my goals well...car ran 6.18 in the 1/8th and stop and go driving is no issue at 3900 lbs race weight.
It wasn’t a narrow view by you and others here to dismiss “big cams” because they don’t fit your goals?
We all have different goals so who are we to dismiss any products that don’t fit our individual use and goals?
Originally Posted by G Atsma
Hey, you use what is needed. SLOW SEDAN was the one I was aiming at with the truck comments, BUT I am also all about thinking outside the box! If a "truck cam" can rock your car, go for it! And if in the right situation, a little lope sounds pretty good! But my main point is, there are THOUSANDS of 5.3 truck owners looking for a little extra to get them upthe hill while pulling the boat/camping trailer. Truck cams do that to a "T".
Originally Posted by SLOW SEDAN
Everyone I know with a 1500 regrets it then gets a diesel if they want to tow, I skipped that step and went straight to a diesel. As far as tunnel vision I never said anything about a 6.0, in fact I like 5.3's but for an entirely different purpose. In the car scene around here you really have to hunt for someone that doesn't have a blower or turbo, just the way it is these days. Not all of us are limited by Cali's ridiculous emissions and modification laws.
Originally Posted by wannafbody
The 5.3 sucks for towing. That's why I bought an Ecoboost. There are two replacements for lack of displacement.
Originally Posted by shakenfake
5.3 towed my lawn equipment just fine and tows my buddies framing trailer great for the past 10 years. You need to get your brain checked if you think that the 5.3 doesn't have it's spot in the towing pyramid lol
Originally Posted by G Atsma
Heavy towing, yes, get a diesel to begin with.
But for those using a 1500 which mostly is all that is needed, when pulling a boat or smaller camping trailer, the bit of kick given by these cams is welcome
OK guys, The vast majority of this back and forth is off topic here. A couple of you it seems, you absolutely live to argue and bicker on other peoples threads, and as a mod, it gets old hearing about this stuff. So let’s try to stay on topic, and leave the “I’m more rednecker than you” stuff out of this. The thread is about N/A camshaft comparisons. Cammotion has the stage here…
Now lets look at a very similar 2 cam comparison between intake manifolds, but with the larger rectangle port heads. Notice how the larger, higher flow rectangle port heads affect the comparison.
The camshafts used in this comparison are the RaceDay SBE LS3 Cam vs the Top Dog Rectangle port Cam Top Dog Rectangle Port Cam: 232/249 on 111.5+4.5 .650"/.640" RaceDay SBE LS3 Cam: 236/249 112.5+3.5 .650"/.640"
These two cams have the exact same valve events except for one. The RaceDay SBE LS3 Cam has a 4 degree later IVC than the Top Dog Rectangle Port Cam Top Dog Rectangle Cam 9 degree IVO, 43 degree IVC, 60.5 degree EVO, 8.5 degree EVC RaceDay SBE LS3 Cam: 9 degree IVO, 47 degree IVC, 60.5 degree EVO, 8.5 degree EVC
This chart is the LY6 with 823 heads and long runner, plastic LS3 intake.
This chart is the LY6 shortblock with 823 heads and the Holley 300-291 split single plane intake.
Notice how the larger, higher flow head does not benefit as much from the increased duration and later intake valve close (IVC). And even more so the single plane intake does not appreciate the larger duration and/or later intake valve close (IVC).
This is a great illustration of how larger, higher flow heads do not need as much intake duration as a smaller, lessor flow head to tune them the a certain RPM in the same engine. Yet another example of why we create cams for rectangle port vs cathedral port and short runner intake manifolds vs long runner intake manifolds.
On a side note. Look at this badass 600+ hp at 7500 RPM race engine we got out of a junkyard. LOL
Last edited by speedtigger; 07-07-2021 at 07:08 PM.
I don’t want to quote your answer to my question from last night about lift (because of the length) but I want to thank you for take the time out to answering it and explaining it. It’s something that I feel could benefit a lot of people. Along with the post about overlap, duration and lsa. There’s a lot more to camshafts then just the advertised numbers at .050
07-07-2021, 10:21 AM
I love seeing the super vic stomp the long runner TBSS intake everywhere. I'm surprised it is up in torque even down low.