I Was just wondering what the maximum amount of overlap on a ls1 cam would be before there begins to be some bucking. How much can be tuned out and whats the limits.
i have a 228/232 110 lsa 108 icl.
believe thats 10 degrees overlap.

I have Minor/only occasional bucking at very low RPMs that i can pretty much avoid entirely with my manual. Only time its noticeable is stop and go traffic and parking lots (rarely) or if i try to cruise in 6th gear at very low rpms.

 

The bucking is a symptom of your combined clutch, torsional stiffness, and the engine rocking side to side on its mounts. If you had stiffer mounts or had some other auxiliary link like a tie rod between the head and shock tower, I think you would not have bucking.

Edit: To expand on this, it may not solve the bucking, but it can minimize it. This bucking is something OE manufacturers spend huge engineering hours trying to tune out with the correct combination of flywheel, drive shaft, and other equipment.

 

Are you actually asking about CAM LOPE, rather than bucking? They are two different and distinct things.
You can have a cam that lopes like a dog shitting gravel, but not buck because of good driveline design, and you can have a stock engine and drivetrain that bucks like a green bronc because of wrong clutch adjustment, wrong clutch, etc.

 

I Was thinking more of the surging that happens with increased overlap on cams. I know only so much can be tuned out. How much overlap before it can not be tuned out in an ls1.

 

Depends on idle speed. The more overlap, the higher RPM it will idle smoothly. There are no set levels with this stuff

 

IVC and engine load probably has more bearing on if the engine will buck under load then overlap. Later IVC will have less of a tendency to buck with equal overlap. I have seen a GM Hotcam pull smoothly in high gear at low rpm and a short duration, low lift truck cam buck. As mentioned earlier there is really no way to calculate anything meaningful from cam specs.

I actually altered the stock VVT tables on my 2007 G35 sedan with the VQ35HR just to eliminate bucking that was present with the Nissan factory tuning. I retarded the intake cam at high load, low rpm like the car experiences with a locked torque converter in 5th gear at say 35-40 mph (1,200-1,500 rpm). It only took maybe 6° of intake retard to completely smooth out the bucking. To maintain power I actually pulled about 4° of exhaust retard out of the tune as well in the same rpm/load area which completely eliminated the exhaust resonance by using up more of the cylinder pressure before blowing down the cylinder. Less energy blowing out of the exhaust = quieter. DOHC with dual VVT fixes alot of problems that cannot be attained with a single fixed or variable cam.

 

My personal line in the sand with a 4th Gen fbody for cam overlap is 13 degrees with a manual transmission and 4.10 gears in an LS1, 3.73's with 400+ cubes with good tuning. Just based on my experiences and what I've seen. Always open to change my mind etc.

In my opinion, many factors impact cam surge/pogo/ buck or whatever we call it. Tuning, throttle body size & quality, driving style, cam specs, intake manifold, clutch, flywheel and gears can all play a part.

I think we'd probably all agree more or less, 0 degrees overlap is a tame and mannered cam that should drive very nearly like stock in the typical LS1 fbody.

An acquitance with a six speed 99 SS Camaro had a 224/224 on 112 with 0 degrees overlap, stock 3.42 gears and untuned, he thought it drove just fine. I felt like the same car was nearly undriveable because driver had to really pay attention because the car was finicky.

My M6 99 T/A got a 224/224 XER on a 113, -2 overlap per specs, ported heads, LS6 intake, headers, 4.10 gears and a LS1 Edit mail order tune back in 2002. I felt the car was easier to drive than stock, better manners at all times except uphill in a parking deck or creeping in bumper to bumper. However, once in a while it would surge, usually on cold start with the AC on or once in a while in cold weather until warmed up.

One of my friends disliked (HATED), the way my T/A drove, valve train noise and idle at 900 rpm drove him nuts. To me this was hilarious since my 99 T/A was easier to drive to me than his basically M6 stock FireHawk.

Different drivers = Different tolerance.

Fun with overlap spec vs actual cam measurements:

 

I think the overall combination has more to do with it bucking than any given overlap number.

Manual vs auto trans, rear gear, stall speed, locked/unlocked convertor.

My LS1 has 16 degrees of overlap and drives damn near stock.
T56 w/ 3.90 rear gear.

I can cruise around 35mph in 5th gear, engine RPM's around 1500 on a hilly road and it doesn't buck.

I will say I've spent quite a bit of time tuning it.

 

There are some things in the tune that can certainly aggravate an engine into bucking. Descreened MAF is a common cause. Also not adjusting the closed loop fueling loop for long tubes and in some cases freer breathing exhaust. Integral Delay and Proportional Airflow settings can make a stock cammed engine buck at light throttle if the 02 sensor placement is altered as the AFR oscillates from extremely rich to extremely lean before being corrected by the short-term fuel trims.