Hello guys, this post is mainly some questions about the L33 engine. (sorry if i ask anything stupid as I am new to the forum)

Assuming said L33 engine is a working engine from a junkyard or seller, and has been fully refreshed with brand new gaskets and seals, O-rings, oil barbell, etc etc....

Here are the questions:

1. When you drop a LS9 OEM camshaft into a stock L33 engine, what are the supporting mods one needs to do? Are different lifters, pushrods, valve springs needed? Or is it completely fine to keep using the L33's OEM lifters, pushrods, valve springs combined with the LS9 camshaft? If anyone has done a LS9 OEM cam into stock L33 conversion, how much HP and torque does it make?

2. I read somewhere that you can put a LS6 OEM intake manifold on the L33 engine directly, my question is, in order to make it work, what accessories related to the intake manifold should one expect to change? What throttle body should one use? (preferably cabled throttle body. as long as its cheap and works well)

3. It looks to me that the L33 originally has it's alternator mounted on the driver side of the car high up(LHD). If one swaps this L33 into a BRZ/GT86/FRS (assuming the intake manifold already clears the hood), will the alternator stop the hood from closing properly? If yes, is there any cheap kits to relocate the alternator that is not too low in the engine bay? I don't want the alternator to be too low for water splash avoidance reasons etc..

4. What kind of specific accessories should I be using when refreshing the engine into the state that is fully dress and ready to put into a car? (Assuming the car is a 2014 FRS for instance) By accessories I mean things like: Alternator type, pulley belt type, harmonic balancer or OEM crank pulley ( can I use OEM crank pulley in this case??), what kind of injectors, etc etc..

5. If said L33 engine with LS6 intake manifold and LS9 camshaft (along with it's supporting mods if needed) were to be put into a BRZ/GT86/FRS, on the scale of 1-10, how difficult is it to learn how to modify the OEM wiring harness that came with the engine into a 5.3 LS to BRZ swap harness given that one doesn't know anything about wiring harness? Should I just buy wiring specialties harness or other aftermarket plug and play ones to save the headache?

6. Does the L33 engine's stock ECU from it's host vehicle work in this 5.3 LS to BRZ swap? Does the stock ECU use MAFS or MAP sensor? Is the L33 stock ECU sufficient in this situation is an aftermarket ECU needed?

I hope you guys don't mind answering if you happen to know anything related. Please feel free to add anything thats important and point out anything if I asked any stupid questions. And thanks in advance!!

 

Why do you want to use a stock cam? If you're swapping cams, find an aftermarket one that will suit your needs. The expense of doing a cam swap makes switching to a factory cam a somewhat backwards move. The BRZ/FRS is a fairly light car, and you could spec a cam to achieve significantly higher HP in the upper RPM range. The LS9 cam has WAY too wide of an LSA, it's a single bolt cam, and you're probably only going to see a 20-30 HP gain ( versus 60-70 with a properly spec'd aftermarket cam ). You'll need cam, lifters, pushrods, and springs. If you're on a budget, you may as well not even do a cam swap. Those items are likely to need replacing regardless of what cam you pick. Not to mention, the LS9 cam is a 4X and the L33 has a 24X reluctor. You'll have to use aftermarket EFI to make that work.

As for alternator mounting, go look at ICT Billet's accessory bracket kits. They have an alternator kit that mounts up top, but is lower than a factory truck set up. I haven't seen any kits that mount an alternator mid-level, it's either low or high. If you're starting from scratch, you need to figure out what balancer spacing you're going to go with and buy brackets/accessories to match. I can almost guarantee you'll need a Corvette balancer spacing due to the small engine compartment.

Intake-wise, you'll need a throttle cable bracket and fuel rails that match your intake (either factory or aftermarket). You may as well just use a factory 78MM TB, as the intake entrance of the LS6 is only about 80MM and buying a bigger TB and using an adapter to fit it is completely pointless. As is searching out an aftermarket 78MM TB, as you're just not going to see big gains from one. You might need a few other things, but I only have messed with cars that have LS engines from the factory, so I couldn't tell you what your specific swap may need.

Your admission that you know nothing about wiring makes it simple to say this: Buy aftermarket if it exists. If it doesn't exist, are you sure you want to even try to do this swap? It's really easy to get in over your head if your skill level isn't capable of making what you have work for you. This is where an aftermarket EFI system would be beneficial. And it's possible to learn enough to modify your stock harness to get rid of engine control functions. This swap is not a new one, either, so go look at what other people have done to solve issues and copy them. There's no need to try something new when someone else has already figured it out. Study as many swaps as you can and see if this is something you really want to tackle.

 

The LS9 cam will gain power high up, but LOSE power in the low and mid range.
It's a crappy cam. There's a reason it's usually so cheap.
This is a case of getting what you paid for. Little from little....

 

Thanks for the answer and I appreciate the detailed explanation about the LS9 cam, and thanks for the info about the alternator brackets and throttle body etc.. The reason why I was considering the OEM LS9 cam was because I saw this video: I was thinking a light chassis like the BRZ shouldn't have any problems losing any torque and power down low and gain power up high if its with an LS engine, and since the L33 engine in stock form is already about 100hp higher than the BRZ stock engine itself, so I don't worry too much about power as I'm not a drag race guy lol. But if you know about any good cam kits that are suitable for my application please do let me know. (my application idea is a street car that is able to drift or run laps on a circuit for time trials once in a while type of thing)

The idea is to get a junkyard aluminum 5.3 engine, basically to refresh it with necessary stuff like brand new head gaskets and other gaskets, O rings, seals, oil pump, water pump etc etc, keeping most internal stuff stock to make it a budget friendly engine swap, and that was the other reason why I was considering LS9 OEM cam. I have no problem keeping the factory L33 cam tho, its just the stock power curve from what I've learnt might not look that good for a car engine swap application, the stock L33 cam's torque and power drop are plenty but they drop down at high RPM with the OEM 5.3 from what I've learnt so far. I have no problem replacing them into different lifters, pushrods and springs as long as they aren't too expensive, and just to make sure, do you happen to know if the L33 in OEM form also has needle bearings in the rocker arms btw? And also sure I will probably have to replace all the lifters, pushrods and springs anyways, but I was wondering if it will be completely fine to just replace them with brand new OEM lifters, pushrods and springs for longevity reasons, say if this hypothetical LS9 cam is dropped in, or do you need other aftermarket stronger aftermarket lifters, pushrods and springs etc?

As for building wiring harness, I was thinking I don't mind learning from scratch to save money, but yeah I have skill issues in that department so it is what it is, if it comes down to buying existing engine swap standalone harness, I guess it will be worth it, as wiring specialties product seems good but very pricey, it will be the last resort for my situation, at least I should give it a try to modify a stock harness from the L33 to work with the BRZ by learning from the internet right? And yes this swap exists and has been done many times by people on the internet, which is great, there are existing swap kits, I think Sikky is the main one that makes very specific direct bolt on stuff for LS to BRZ/GT86/FRS transplant down to driveshafts that fit either CD009 or T56 in the BRZ etc etc, and long tube headers along with some offset inserts on the steering rack so that the headers clear the BRZ steering shaft, not that I would use those headers because money LOL, I guess a 300 something dollars summit racing set of shorty headers would suffice. But anyways this swap seems very doable.

Btw are you sure in this situation a stock ECU from the donor car isn't going to cut it? Do you mind listing a couple of ECUs that you would go for that are cheap and preferably compact?

 

Well my idea is to swap this engine into a light weight chassis, and since Im not a drag race guy I don't care about gaining or losing power and torque at lower RPMs, according to some people's tests on youtube, the LS9 stock cam has a very nice power curve when used in a stock 5.3L engine, it almost looks linear as the RPM goes up. According to this video:
At 5:22 you can see that the LS9 camshaft gave the 5.3 engine a very nice linear power curve, correct me if I'm wrong but I'd imagine that power curve would be very good for running on a track that has a lot of curves, or drifting, if the engine is installed in a light weight chassis.

 

It's linear because the lower 2/3 of the curve is LOWER than stock. ANY other cam with the LS9's top end generates more low and mid-range
You've seen Holdener's video above. He does NOT like the cam. There is no real justification for it. Except the rock bottom price....

 

I see.. for a road racing/drifting application with a 5.3L, what aftermarket cam would you choose?

 

Not to cop out, but you would be better off calling one of the better cam grinders for that.
Cam Motion, TSP, Summit all have expertise.

 

Gotcha, thanks.

 

If you want to keep it on budget, don't swap the head gaskets. If the engine is running with good compression and no leaks, there's zero reason to open it up. People regularly put cams in 250K mile 5.3s and turbocharge them to 700-800 RWHP with no issues. Replace the seals/gaskets ( aside from head gaskets ) while upgrading your cam. You can find used LS cams all the time in the $250 range. If it's smaller and less aggressive, you could get away with LS6 or LS3 valve springs and possibly even stock pushrods. The rockers should be fine at lower lifts, but lifts over .625 can cause issues and warrant a trunnion upgrade. Believe me, even a cam in the 210-220 degree range will add 40-50 HP, AND it will boost torque through the entire rev range. I just know from experience ( I own 3 LS powered vehicles ) that digging in deeper can cost significantly more money and can create issues that wouldn't have arisen if things were left alone.

 

Thanks for the advice, I will keep that in mind. 👍🏼.

Another question I have is: LS to BRZ swap for example will require the oil pan to be a front sump pan, there are a few options out there from cheap to expensive. I've read somewhere you can use a 2006 GTO pan and cut off a bit of materials close to the transmission connecting structure on the back part of the oil pan, add a trap door baffle in the front sump and done, but it seems like GTO oil pans are hard to find nowadays as the OEM oil pans are discontinued. Is there any other front sump OEM LS oil pans that are similar to the GTO oil pan's dimensions? because a cheap OEM oil pan + aftermarket made to install trapdoor baffle kit is way cheaper than buying aftermarket fabricated oil pans.

If there is nothing like that out there anymore then the last resort will be aftermarket fully fabricated ones.

When it comes to aftermarket fully fabricated to fit oil pans, I have some questions regarding those too:
https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...drift-pan.html
^ This one seems pretty cost effective and in comparison to the sikky oil pan that is specifically designed for the LS to BRZ swap, they are very similar in dimensions:

15-276 GM LS1-LS6 5-5/8" Deep Front Sump Road Race and Drift Pan
https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...drift-pan.html

Sikky Toyota 86 / FRS LSx Swap Front Sump Oil Pan Kit
https://www.sikky.com/product/toyota...p-oil-pan-kit/

This shown Sikky oil pan is specifically designed for what it seems like LS3 to BRZ/GT86/FRS swaps, but the question is that does it also work with a 5.3LS?? (the sikky oil pan kit includes it's own oil pickup tube for the LS3 and it seems like Canton Racing oil pan does not have its own oil pickup tube, I wonder if it works with a front sump style OEM oil pickup)

They look very similar in size and dimension, since the sikky oil pan works for the LS to BRZ swap, the Canton Racing one will likely have no problem fitting too. The only big difference is that the canton racing oil pan does not have the rear supporting structure to the transmission like the sikky one does, therefore maybe this specific canton racing oil pan gives the transmission to engine connection less structural rigidity I would imagine(?), they both need an oil filter relocation kit, but Canton Racing's oil pan is significantly cheaper than Sikky's LS swap oil pan, but there is one problem, they didn't specify whether if you can use this Canton Racing oil pan for a 5.3LS like the L33 or LC9, LM4 etc.. for example, summit racing's website also sells this Canton Racing oil pan has specification that states that this said Canton Racing oil pan is able to fit with 5.7LS only pretty much, one of my friends told me summit racing sometimes messes up the compatibility chart of some parts but I want to further verify to see for sure if this oil pan can work with a 5.3LS engine. Do you happen to know anything about these oil pans and whether this will work with a 5.3LS engine?

And about the rocker arms, I do plan to do the trunnion upgrade for the rocker arms right from the beginning to avoid the needle bearings issue, just to have a piece of mind lol.

 

when you do get around to swapping the cam, make sure you take a very good look at the stock cam that you take out. Look at all the lobes for wear. If any seem pitted, ground down, cupped, etc. then there’s a very good chance that the lifter for that lobe is damaged as well. If you leave a damaged lifter in there, there’s a good chance that you’ll just tear up the new cam that you install

 

I see, if that situation happens what if I change the cam, lifters, push rods and springs to brand new ones that are the same spec? will that still tear up the new cam?

 

nope you should be fine. If your lobes look good on the stock cam you pull out, the lifters are likely fine to leave alone.

As far as springs, it would depend on what new cam you go with, most aftermarket cams will usually require new springs and the cam manufacturer that you end up getting your new cam from should be able to point you to the right springs to get for your application.

As far as new pushrods, on some new cam setups (unlikely though), the stock pushrods work out to be the correct length. The vast majority of the time however you’ll need a different length pushrod. What most of us suggest is that you buy your cam and springs but don’t buy the pushrods yet. Install your cam and springs, purchase a pushrod length checker which most cam vendors will have for sale, and measure the correct push rod length to set proper lifter preload (which you’ll want to do especially if you reuse potentially tired out stock lifters). Once you have the correct length measured, order your pushrods in that length and install them.

When you install your cam, take care not to let any lifters drop down out of their bores into the crankcase or you’ll be pulling off the heads anyway to replace the fallen lifter (or new ones at that point). Most people give the cam a good spin to get the lifters up as high as they can in the bore then pull the cam and take a chance that none fall out, however you can get two 5/16” wooden dowels and slide them down the bores on either side of the cam to retain the lifters in their bores while you swap cams if you want the peace of mind. Just be cautious not to get large fibers from the wood in your oil

 

Thanks for the suggestions! I will take notes.

 

In regards to the pan, I look at it this way - If you want to do a swap, you shouldn't always cut corners. I don't have the patience or facilities to do swaps, so I buy my LS vehicles factory equipped. However, if I WERE to do a swap, I'd buy the swap components specifically engineered for my swap, even if they were more expensive. Someone else already figured out the hard part for you, you know? I'd rather use the Sikky pan than something that looks like it would work, but then as you assemble it you find you have to cut and weld it to make it fit.

 

I see what you mean, but there is a problem with the Sikky oil pan also: The Sikky LS to BRZ specific oil pan was originally designed for the LS3 but the oil pan comes with its own specifically made to fit oil pickup, would you say if this will fit on the 5.3LS like L33 or LM4, or LC9 etc? I've done some research about these oil pans and it seems like google says pretty much all the LS oil pans are interchangeable with the correct oil pickup, is this true? (of course I wouldn't be using rear sump in this situation)

 

You can use ANY LS pan on ANY LS engine with the appropriate pickup tube and windage tray. There is no change in the architecture that would alter that, outside of a dry sump set up. Just be sure that the pick up tube O-ring is the correct one for whatever application you're running. I'm assuming Sikky provides one in their kit, or tells you which to use.

 

I see. Not only Sikky, but the Canton Racing Oil pan apparently also has it's own specific made to fit oil pick up, just like Sikky. So that means both the Canton Racing oil pan and the Sikky oil pan can fit on a 5.3LS no problem right? Because to swap a LS into a BRZ it requires a front sump oil pan, and there aren't many good ones out there for the price, by good ones I mean 1. front sump that is forward position enough to give clearance for the engine to sit as far back as possible. 2. has similar dimensions with Sikky oil pan (if I end up not using the sikky oil pan). 3. oil trapdoors to prevent oil starvation around long corners (some oil pans are almost perfect but they had welded in a chamber with trap doors only for left and right but not forward and back, the sikky or canton racing oilpan's trapdoors look very promising in that regard)

 

Before you go out and buy parts I would do the necessary homework about the car and parts that will be needed to swap a LS engine, probably a forum that you can ask questions to others that have done a similar swap, BRZ being a Subaru? Don't forget the transmission info as well.
I did a LS swap in my 1st gen Camaro and it required some of these parts as an example. Engine mounts, engine, oil pan, transmission mount, transmission, accessory drive system, ECM and wiring, fuel system, radiator cooling to name a few plus a bunch of other small stuff. Go to this website to gain some valuable info on the LS engine differences and products, I used their accessory drive pieces that worked out to be perfect for me, LS1 spacing with no air cond. A local auto supply place or Rockauto can help you with the parts like alternator, starter, water pump, tension pullies, belts.
https://www.ictbillet.com/swap-guide/ls-swap-guide.html

You could call these guys and ask about the oil pan fitting into your car, they specialize in oiling systems.
https://www.improvedracing.com/

You can do it cheap but do it once and do it right to save you the hassles down the road.