Trickflow really let me down
TECH Resident
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 858
Likes: 402
From: Texas
Did you spin them with a drill? Some of those definitely look like they didn't seat.
Many years ago, I had an engine (460 Ford) that I rebuilt, and had a "high performance" machine shop install hardened exhaust seats in the heads.
After a couple or three weeks of driving, it was was obviously not running right, and after doing a few checks, I did a compression check, and found out that one cylinder was blowing almost all of the compression out of the exhaust valve.
I took the head back to the machine shop, who honored the repair and resurfaced the valve and seat. They said that the seat "settled into" the head.
All was good until a couple of weeks later, when it started running shitty again. I skipped straight to the compression test, and FIVE other cylinders were low on compression, and after blowing air into the cylinders, it was obvious that they were leaking out of the exhaust, too.
On my way home that night, one of the exhaust valves (presumably) overheated, broke off, and broke the piston and trashed the bore and head.
Moral of the story: could be improperly installed valve seats. Maybe defective. Who knows.
Many years ago, I had an engine (460 Ford) that I rebuilt, and had a "high performance" machine shop install hardened exhaust seats in the heads.
After a couple or three weeks of driving, it was was obviously not running right, and after doing a few checks, I did a compression check, and found out that one cylinder was blowing almost all of the compression out of the exhaust valve.
I took the head back to the machine shop, who honored the repair and resurfaced the valve and seat. They said that the seat "settled into" the head.
All was good until a couple of weeks later, when it started running shitty again. I skipped straight to the compression test, and FIVE other cylinders were low on compression, and after blowing air into the cylinders, it was obvious that they were leaking out of the exhaust, too.
On my way home that night, one of the exhaust valves (presumably) overheated, broke off, and broke the piston and trashed the bore and head.
Moral of the story: could be improperly installed valve seats. Maybe defective. Who knows.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 186
Likes: 12
Man that sucks after that whole job you lost the motor. The valves measure out width wise intakes seem ok. When I put them in the drill spin them in the guide or just openly and check? Because it’s hard to tell by looking in the air. Also what is the correct way to measure the seats?
You don’t need a drill. Pop the locks on all 16 and remove the springs/retainers. Stand the head up on its end, valve heads facing you. Reach around the head and turn each valve tip by hand while watching the valve head against the seat. You’ll see right away if you have any bent valves. It does look like in your pics like you have valve seats that have settled…which is perfectly normal for aftermarket heads btw. Heat cycling and the thermal dissimilarity between the seat material and the aluminum casting sometimes causes the seats to sink, particularly the exhaust seats because they see much more temp. It’s not a guarantee that this is going to happen, but it does happen. Your heads are very repairable.
TECH Resident
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 858
Likes: 402
From: Texas
It does look like in your pics like you have valve seats that have settled…which is perfectly normal for aftermarket heads btw. Heat cycling and the thermal dissimilarity between the seat material and the aluminum casting sometimes causes the seats to sink, particularly the exhaust seats because they see much more temp. It’s not a guarantee that this is going to happen, but it does happen. Your heads are very repairable.
How is this not a problem for the OEMs?*
If it's considered "normal" for aftermarket heads, then what do you propose? That we install the heads, run them for a couple of weeks, then take them to the machine shop for a fresh valve job?
*Yes, I am aware that some OEMs (MOPAR, I'm looking at you) like to drop seats. But most of them don't.
How is this considered normal? Please excuse my ignorance, but shouldn't the seats be, you know, SEATED in the head when they are installed? If they still have more room to go, shouldn't that be accounted for when installing them?
How is this not a problem for the OEMs?*
If it's considered "normal" for aftermarket heads, then what do you propose? That we install the heads, run them for a couple of weeks, then take them to the machine shop for a fresh valve job?
*Yes, I am aware that some OEMs (MOPAR, I'm looking at you) like to drop seats. But most of them don't.
How is this not a problem for the OEMs?*
If it's considered "normal" for aftermarket heads, then what do you propose? That we install the heads, run them for a couple of weeks, then take them to the machine shop for a fresh valve job?
*Yes, I am aware that some OEMs (MOPAR, I'm looking at you) like to drop seats. But most of them don't.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 186
Likes: 12
I can see what you mean by the seats sinking in. But shouldn’t that be on trickflow man? Like I’m still scratching my head here on what the hell I did wrong lol. Spun them all on a couple there is a tiny variance hard to tell by the eye. To me they should all be lined up from the start yes 10 thou whatever. But now it’s like ok spent 2800$ plus on heads oh we don’t know what happened push the blame my way when you read up on high EGTS could be caused by the exhausts not seating correctly from the start which in return caused them to run hot. Trickflows very redundant in their responses to me. Who knows what happened but at the end of the day I think in good faith they should have fixed the heads. He’ll even if they said we don’t know what caused it could of been us or you but we need around 500$ to cover some costs I would of said whatever I just want good cylinder heads. It’s when they said you burnt them up it’s $1400 the cost of more than one head to get them sent back to you is when I said send them back that’s outrageous.
I still would liked to have seen the valve seats after being cleaned and if you chuck a bent valve up in a drill and give it a spin you going to see it. A few thou isn't going to make up the difference in the valve heights not being equal as those look to be .020-.030 thou difference.
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Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 186
Likes: 12
So those are all the seats don’t have much brake clean here I’d have to take them back to garage at this point I’m pretty much done cut my losses. not sure what conclusion to draw besides trickflow heads at the end of the day did let me down.
Last edited by Lxjoshxl; Dec 28, 2024 at 05:13 PM.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 370
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The pushrods should have been different lengths, for sure just from reading the old posts showing the height difference. Back from September
All the exhaust valves are higher. Those should have had shorter pushrods.
Pictures of pistons that show the whole piston would show if the valves hit.
Trickflow said it had bent valves you said you found one.
All the exhaust valves are higher. Those should have had shorter pushrods.
Pictures of pistons that show the whole piston would show if the valves hit.
Trickflow said it had bent valves you said you found one.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 186
Likes: 12
I’ll get a pic of the block only had one pic of a piston. Nothing Hit at all I had miles of clearance. If only a ten thou variance why different length rods? Wouldn’t only preload be affected? That’s what I was told and I was within the recommended preload on the ls7 lifters. The rods measured out actually to trickflows recommended 7.5 length prs .80 pre load with that
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 186
Likes: 12
I don't see a difference from one exhaust seat to the other as they look to be recessed in some. Could the tops of the valves have been at different heights from the get go calling for either lash caps on the intake valves to make up the difference or the use of different length pushrods in order to get proper valve geometry? Another thing we don't know is if the heads would seal or not with new lapped in valves. Lots of unanswered questions really.
I think we are trying too hard to make this the OP's fault. It should not be acceptable to have valve seat issues on heads of this price range and consider that normal. If it was then trickflow should have taken care of it. If the valves were different heights and required lash caps trick flow should put a note with their heads on this. Yes, I know trust but verify everything. It doesn't hurt for manufacturers to put little notes in there like that to help us out though. A note stating that there could be valve seat issues and that we should pull them off to inspect after a given amount of use would help also so maybe you only have a head problem and not a destroyed engine.
Stuff like this is why I moved from big cubic inch motors to boost. I'm still running 241 heads on my current combo making around 1000 rwhp. Would it make more with better heads, yes I'm sure but I also didn't have the OP's problem and ruin my engine by running expensive heads that have valve seat issues. I put less money in my motors now and let the blower do the work just because when it breaks it's less painful to lose a stock crank and stock heads then it is to lose a $3000 crank and $4000 heads.
Stuff like this is why I moved from big cubic inch motors to boost. I'm still running 241 heads on my current combo making around 1000 rwhp. Would it make more with better heads, yes I'm sure but I also didn't have the OP's problem and ruin my engine by running expensive heads that have valve seat issues. I put less money in my motors now and let the blower do the work just because when it breaks it's less painful to lose a stock crank and stock heads then it is to lose a $3000 crank and $4000 heads.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 186
Likes: 12
I think we are trying too hard to make this the OP's fault. It should not be acceptable to have valve seat issues on heads of this price range and consider that normal. If it was then trickflow should have taken care of it. If the valves were different heights and required lash caps trick flow should put a note with their heads on this. Yes, I know trust but verify everything. It doesn't hurt for manufacturers to put little notes in there like that to help us out though. A note stating that there could be valve seat issues and that we should pull them off to inspect after a given amount of use would help also so maybe you only have a head problem and not a destroyed engine.
Stuff like this is why I moved from big cubic inch motors to boost. I'm still running 241 heads on my current combo making around 1000 rwhp. Would it make more with better heads, yes I'm sure but I also didn't have the OP's problem and ruin my engine by running expensive heads that have valve seat issues. I put less money in my motors now and let the blower do the work just because when it breaks it's less painful to lose a stock crank and stock heads then it is to lose a $3000 crank and $4000 heads.
Stuff like this is why I moved from big cubic inch motors to boost. I'm still running 241 heads on my current combo making around 1000 rwhp. Would it make more with better heads, yes I'm sure but I also didn't have the OP's problem and ruin my engine by running expensive heads that have valve seat issues. I put less money in my motors now and let the blower do the work just because when it breaks it's less painful to lose a stock crank and stock heads then it is to lose a $3000 crank and $4000 heads.
But yeah same intake same everything on current build with a truck Norris cam and 243 heads I lapped in new exhaust valves myself no glittery oil.. luckily the bottom end seems still good I do have ARP main studs so I can always pull the pan and check bearings. But no piston contact just carbon build up I can see.
Reach out to top brass at Summit. See if their customer service is what it’s supposed to be. At minimum they will hand you another opinion as to what happened here, and why your valve heights look like the Beartooth Mtns.
