Anyone know the spces on LG Motorsports Juggernaut cam??
11-18-2004, 11:15 AM
#81
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Its well know that certain LG cams are off the shelf comp lobes. Its also well known that as soon as these specs became "public" that certain shops, etc... used those EXACT specs for their own cams. Its a matter of fact, and public record. So, if I were Lou, I wouldn't post specs publically.
Now, my only disagreement with Lou on any of this is I would at least provide a cam card so that you can degree in the cam, and check it. Of course if you buy the cam and have any questions, there are shops that will cam docotr the cam for you. But of course you have to actually buy the cam to start with, so you aren't getting specs for free.
Lou is also not lying. I've know Lou for several years, and we run one of his packages. I talk with Lou on the phone all the time. I know the cam specs to several of the cams, but not because Lou gives them to me (Lou is in fact very tight lipped about what he does, and won't discuss cam specifics with me).
For that reason, I'm not sworn to secrecy, but I don't share what I know publically out of respect for Lou and Louis. Anyhow, you can see that Lou has had some real good results. If you duplicate one of those packages you should see similar results.
If you want a truly custom one off cam, you need flow numbers through the intake , and a list of ALL your info, and then you can give Ed a call and he can cook you up a one off custom cam.
Now, my only disagreement with Lou on any of this is I would at least provide a cam card so that you can degree in the cam, and check it. Of course if you buy the cam and have any questions, there are shops that will cam docotr the cam for you. But of course you have to actually buy the cam to start with, so you aren't getting specs for free.
Lou is also not lying. I've know Lou for several years, and we run one of his packages. I talk with Lou on the phone all the time. I know the cam specs to several of the cams, but not because Lou gives them to me (Lou is in fact very tight lipped about what he does, and won't discuss cam specifics with me).
For that reason, I'm not sworn to secrecy, but I don't share what I know publically out of respect for Lou and Louis. Anyhow, you can see that Lou has had some real good results. If you duplicate one of those packages you should see similar results.
If you want a truly custom one off cam, you need flow numbers through the intake , and a list of ALL your info, and then you can give Ed a call and he can cook you up a one off custom cam.
11-18-2004, 01:18 PM
#82
LS1Tech Co-Founder
iTrader: (34)
Sean M. did a lot of r&d trying a few cams and his car is very impressive. If the Jugger cam fits without flycutting then LG did their homework. And Sean has never pulled the heads on his car.
11-18-2004, 04:03 PM
#83
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LG,
Any plans to put the new G5X4 (jugger) cam in a M6 cam only LS1 and put up a dyno sheet?
I have a couple of questions also.
1)What rpm does this cam peak at and how high should I take the rpms?
2)Would I need gears to run this cam, I still have the stock 3.42's, to make up for any low end hp and torque loss like the T-Rex which I assume the G5X4 is similar to?
3)How's the idle and drivability characteristics of this cam. I know you said "It's not for the faint of heart.", so how does it compare to the G5X3 or G5X2?
4)Does the cam give up some torque for more hp like the T-Rex?
I was considering the G5X2, but I would go for the G5X4 if I don't have to rev it to the moon or lose alot of torque.
Thanks for any help.
LG Motorsports
Any plans to put the new G5X4 (jugger) cam in a M6 cam only LS1 and put up a dyno sheet?
I have a couple of questions also.
1)What rpm does this cam peak at and how high should I take the rpms?
2)Would I need gears to run this cam, I still have the stock 3.42's, to make up for any low end hp and torque loss like the T-Rex which I assume the G5X4 is similar to?
3)How's the idle and drivability characteristics of this cam. I know you said "It's not for the faint of heart.", so how does it compare to the G5X3 or G5X2?
4)Does the cam give up some torque for more hp like the T-Rex?
I was considering the G5X2, but I would go for the G5X4 if I don't have to rev it to the moon or lose alot of torque.
Thanks for any help.
LG Motorsports Last edited by Cobraeater; 11-19-2004 at 02:07 AM.
11-18-2004, 09:06 PM
#84
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Originally Posted by Cobraeater
LG,
Any plans to put the new G5X4 (jugger) cam in a A4 cam only LS1 and put up a dyno sheet?
I have a couple of questions also.
1)What rpm does this cam peak at and how high should I take the rpms?
2)Would I need gears to run this cam, I still have the stock 3.42's, to make up for any low end hp and torque loss like the T-Rex which I assume the G5X4 is similar to?
3)How's the idle and drivability characteristics of this cam. I know you said "It's not for the faint of heart.", so how does it compare to the G5X3 or G5X2?
4)Does the cam give up some torque for more hp like the T-Rex?
I was considering the G5X3, but I would go for the G5X4 if I don't have to rev it to the moon or lose alot of torque.
Thnaks for any help. LG Motorsports
Any plans to put the new G5X4 (jugger) cam in a A4 cam only LS1 and put up a dyno sheet?
I have a couple of questions also.
1)What rpm does this cam peak at and how high should I take the rpms?
2)Would I need gears to run this cam, I still have the stock 3.42's, to make up for any low end hp and torque loss like the T-Rex which I assume the G5X4 is similar to?
3)How's the idle and drivability characteristics of this cam. I know you said "It's not for the faint of heart.", so how does it compare to the G5X3 or G5X2?
4)Does the cam give up some torque for more hp like the T-Rex?
I was considering the G5X3, but I would go for the G5X4 if I don't have to rev it to the moon or lose alot of torque.
Thnaks for any help.
LG Motorsports
11-21-2004, 11:55 AM
#88
FormerVendor
I see most of this cam stuff from both sides as a vendor and as a former customer. Both have valid points as people are always wanting someone else to do tons of work and research for free but yet as a customer after paying, I'd want the specs too. We've been trying to develop a few cams before openly divulging our specs so we can make some small changes before we settle on something to permanently carry on hand.
What I can say after seeing so many custom cams and shelf cams and cams with all sorts of flanks and rocker ratios is that there are no "magic" cams anyway. If there were and all these cam gurus were so good we would ALREADY have the best cams out there but we don't as engines and cams change every few months. Having dynoed and seen so many cams run at the track in Houston here I know that cams are important but even more so is also the supporting valvetrain and tune and everything else but a lot of the time the cam gets the good or bad rap as to how a car performs when it is not really deserving of it at all.
A cam is not a supercharger and those that are very close in specs make horsepower that is very close and go down the track very close as well. We see too many of these "special" cam cars every day that don't make any more power or usually less than our own stuff or even the older MTI stuff that eveyone knows. Basically bigger cams usually make more top end power is the only trend I see on a daily basis. Our own cam only cars make 420+ RWHP and have a decent middle of the road camshaft in them. We could make more and we could make less by changing things but not huge differences.
What I do see is people not reporting that they have valve reliefs and extremely milled chambers with much much more compression and some running cutouts and some no belts and some with huge headers and some with stock exhaust and some with deep gears and some with stock gears and some with small TBs and some with large TBs and some with heavy wheels and tires and some with very light and some on old dynos with hand entered Vapor pressure and some using STD corrections and some using SAE corrections and some with crap springs and some with good springs and some with incorrect spring set ups and some with the right spring set ups and some with cams in wrong and some degreed in right etc. and so on and so on forever!
What I can say after seeing so many custom cams and shelf cams and cams with all sorts of flanks and rocker ratios is that there are no "magic" cams anyway. If there were and all these cam gurus were so good we would ALREADY have the best cams out there but we don't as engines and cams change every few months. Having dynoed and seen so many cams run at the track in Houston here I know that cams are important but even more so is also the supporting valvetrain and tune and everything else but a lot of the time the cam gets the good or bad rap as to how a car performs when it is not really deserving of it at all.
A cam is not a supercharger and those that are very close in specs make horsepower that is very close and go down the track very close as well. We see too many of these "special" cam cars every day that don't make any more power or usually less than our own stuff or even the older MTI stuff that eveyone knows. Basically bigger cams usually make more top end power is the only trend I see on a daily basis. Our own cam only cars make 420+ RWHP and have a decent middle of the road camshaft in them. We could make more and we could make less by changing things but not huge differences.
What I do see is people not reporting that they have valve reliefs and extremely milled chambers with much much more compression and some running cutouts and some no belts and some with huge headers and some with stock exhaust and some with deep gears and some with stock gears and some with small TBs and some with large TBs and some with heavy wheels and tires and some with very light and some on old dynos with hand entered Vapor pressure and some using STD corrections and some using SAE corrections and some with crap springs and some with good springs and some with incorrect spring set ups and some with the right spring set ups and some with cams in wrong and some degreed in right etc. and so on and so on forever!
11-21-2004, 12:13 PM
#89
FormerVendor
Anyway to make a long story longer, DON'T put SO much emphasis on the cams in these combos until you know the real story or setup behind the car and its weight and chassis and driver and weather conditions and track prep etc! Otherwise you'll rarely achieve the performances sometimes talked about on here as common place with these cams. Go to a local dyno day and see what the average cars running this stuff are doing as we see this everyday. I've seen several consecutive cars with a supposedly great cam guy from down south never put out great numbers on our dyno and they always think something is wrong when they see one of ours put down 40 more but we know we covered all the bases when we put our own stuff in so there isn't as much room for error. It's the same with Lou's stuff that runs great since if they do it they can also make sure you have the right springs and lifter preload and the cam installed right so on and so on.
As soon as we stabilize our cams we will probably give out the specs but a lot of the work is just seeing what is safe or will fit on a totally stock shortblock with no reliefs, Then you want to see good numbers on power and decent drivability and all this stuff is not something that just happens if you're trying to break new ground. We do custom cams but sometimes the customers think they are a little big and sometimes they think they are a little small. It would be cool if people could "test drive" cams in a "cam simulator" as then things would be easier for everyone! We were making 450-460 RWHP with LS1 heads and hydro-roller cams at SAM with a 23x size cam and normal compression 5 years ago so these deals are not rocket science.
As soon as we stabilize our cams we will probably give out the specs but a lot of the work is just seeing what is safe or will fit on a totally stock shortblock with no reliefs, Then you want to see good numbers on power and decent drivability and all this stuff is not something that just happens if you're trying to break new ground. We do custom cams but sometimes the customers think they are a little big and sometimes they think they are a little small. It would be cool if people could "test drive" cams in a "cam simulator" as then things would be easier for everyone! We were making 450-460 RWHP with LS1 heads and hydro-roller cams at SAM with a 23x size cam and normal compression 5 years ago so these deals are not rocket science.
12-07-2004, 10:52 PM
#91
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Originally Posted by Tweakd
I'm sure you would put a heads and cam car up to anything but he was a cam only car with 2 people in it on a nitrous tune not a heads and cam car in race weight mode. If memory serves me rigth JS12 (Jamie) who was a G5X3 car got beat by Chris McKinney's exhaust only '02 Z06 motor to motor either that or they both were bottle to bottle and McKinney was 100dry shot and Jamie was bigger then then that. Either way I don't see any sense in hiding information. As people have said previous to my responses @ .050 doesn't give your secrets away. I don't think your products suck in LSx cars, all I'm saying is "WE" the people paying shops like yours expect to know what we are investing "OUR" hard earned money on and not treated like a theif of cam specs. We are all big boys and big girls, so what if one person knows some of the cam specs and calls comp to custom grind a similar cam, most likely they won't come out with the same grind as you're producing. I think too much focus has been put on the shop wars versus the actual customer experience.
12-07-2004, 11:32 PM
#92
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Originally Posted by Cobraeater
LG,
Any plans to put the new G5X4 (jugger) cam in a M6 cam only LS1 and put up a dyno sheet?
I have a couple of questions also.
1)What rpm does this cam peak at and how high should I take the rpms?
2)Would I need gears to run this cam, I still have the stock 3.42's, to make up for any low end hp and torque loss like the T-Rex which I assume the G5X4 is similar to?
3)How's the idle and drivability characteristics of this cam. I know you said "It's not for the faint of heart.", so how does it compare to the G5X3 or G5X2?
4)Does the cam give up some torque for more hp like the T-Rex?
I was considering the G5X2, but I would go for the G5X4 if I don't have to rev it to the moon or lose alot of torque.
Thanks for any help. LG Motorsports
Any plans to put the new G5X4 (jugger) cam in a M6 cam only LS1 and put up a dyno sheet?
I have a couple of questions also.
1)What rpm does this cam peak at and how high should I take the rpms?
2)Would I need gears to run this cam, I still have the stock 3.42's, to make up for any low end hp and torque loss like the T-Rex which I assume the G5X4 is similar to?
3)How's the idle and drivability characteristics of this cam. I know you said "It's not for the faint of heart.", so how does it compare to the G5X3 or G5X2?
4)Does the cam give up some torque for more hp like the T-Rex?
I was considering the G5X2, but I would go for the G5X4 if I don't have to rev it to the moon or lose alot of torque.
Thanks for any help.
LG Motorsports1. Cam peaks at about 6600 and it is flat from there to shift point of 7200.
2. the low end torque is still really good. We did the 140mph drag run with a 373 rear end and this cam ( 140mph video link) http://www.lgmotorsports.com/images/media/lg140.wmv
3.We have not put this cam in a street car. I know that we could have gotten the idle down on the 140 mph car but that is the cam in the video.
there are a few cams out right now, so there might be some idle and drivability info coming soon.
4. the cam in the 140 mph car dynoed at 535rwhp 482 rwtq. I don't think that is low torque. keep in mind that this car had a lightweight racing clutch
Hope this answers your questions. call me if you have any other questions.
thanks
Lou Gigliotti
PS, Hey Jamie. (JS12)
12-08-2004, 12:17 PM
#93
LG Motorsports, the Juggernaut peaks at 6600! 
01-Z said it peaked out on his car at 6300 I believe. That would be perfect for me becasue I'll be shifting my car at 6600 with a 6900 rev limiter. Not sure if he was going off his dyno sheet or just guessing, but if the Juggernaut indeed peaks at 6600, then I guess its not for me. 
Im looking for the ultimate drag cam for stock heads and completely stock bottom end. I have a 2000 model, so I dont have the "better" rod bolts. So Im not going to risk spinning my motor 7000+ rpms. I have a fairly light car, probably in the 3200s, Yank PT4400, Strange 12 bolt w/4.10 gear, all the bolt-ons except the FAST intake/tb, and want a cam that is going to put down the numbers at the track. I want to optimize the setup I have and go as fast as possible. I know that I wont break any records because Im not running a striped down car, but I still wanna see some high 10 sec. timeslips. Want the cam to peak around 6300-6400 rpms so that I can shift a couple hundred just past it. I havent looked at the shift extension on the converter yet, but they say its around 5900 rpms. Anyhow, what would you recommend? Thanks.
01-Z said it peaked out on his car at 6300 I believe. That would be perfect for me becasue I'll be shifting my car at 6600 with a 6900 rev limiter. Not sure if he was going off his dyno sheet or just guessing, but if the Juggernaut indeed peaks at 6600, then I guess its not for me. Im looking for the ultimate drag cam for stock heads and completely stock bottom end. I have a 2000 model, so I dont have the "better" rod bolts. So Im not going to risk spinning my motor 7000+ rpms. I have a fairly light car, probably in the 3200s, Yank PT4400, Strange 12 bolt w/4.10 gear, all the bolt-ons except the FAST intake/tb, and want a cam that is going to put down the numbers at the track. I want to optimize the setup I have and go as fast as possible. I know that I wont break any records because Im not running a striped down car, but I still wanna see some high 10 sec. timeslips. Want the cam to peak around 6300-6400 rpms so that I can shift a couple hundred just past it. I havent looked at the shift extension on the converter yet, but they say its around 5900 rpms. Anyhow, what would you recommend? Thanks. 
12-08-2004, 07:33 PM
#96
LG Motorsports, so which cam would you suggest I run? Here is a quick run down of my set up, my needs, and goals:
200-4R tranny (light, efficient, and fully built)
Yank PT4400 (roughly 5900 rpm shift extension)
6600 shift points
6900 rev limiter
need cam that peaks around 6300-6400 so that I can shift 200-300 rpms above
Strange 12 bolt w/4.10 gear
All the bolt-ons except the FAST intake/throttle body
32XX race weight
completely stock heads
completely stock bottom end
completely stock fuel system
full suspension
full drivetrain
Want to optimize my setup and go fast as possible. I dont plan on breaking any records because my race weight isnt low enough, but my goal is to break into the 10s naturally aspirated cam only. Any help is much appreciated!
200-4R tranny (light, efficient, and fully built)
Yank PT4400 (roughly 5900 rpm shift extension)
6600 shift points
6900 rev limiter
need cam that peaks around 6300-6400 so that I can shift 200-300 rpms above
Strange 12 bolt w/4.10 gear
All the bolt-ons except the FAST intake/throttle body
32XX race weight
completely stock heads
completely stock bottom end
completely stock fuel system
full suspension
full drivetrain
Want to optimize my setup and go fast as possible. I dont plan on breaking any records because my race weight isnt low enough, but my goal is to break into the 10s naturally aspirated cam only. Any help is much appreciated!
Last edited by BlackBeaSSt; 12-08-2004 at 07:48 PM.
12-09-2004, 01:40 PM
#97
You can shift it at 6500 if you want,you might lose a little mph but the ET is
determined by the 60'.
I short shifted my car the last 15 passes because the trans was going away,
there is hardly a difference in MPH (maybe .5)and no change in ET.
BTW- 10.64@126 N/A and 9.64@138 on juice are both short shifted.
determined by the 60'.
I short shifted my car the last 15 passes because the trans was going away,
there is hardly a difference in MPH (maybe .5)and no change in ET.
BTW- 10.64@126 N/A and 9.64@138 on juice are both short shifted.
12-09-2004, 01:48 PM
#98
What was your 60 ft. on the 10.64 pass? What kind of 60 fts. do you usually pull naturally aspirated? When you say you short shifted, what kind of rpms are we talking about? We all have different views as to what is short shifted. Thanks for you help.
12-09-2004, 04:20 PM
#100
Wow! So you ran both the fastest times (10.64/9.64) shifting at those rpms? Why did you shift so early on the 1-2 shift? Lastly, are you trying to break your own record shifting a bit higher? Thanks.
Oh yeah, what was your 60 ft. on the naturally aspirated pass and what do you usually pull? If you say its all in the 60, then telling me what you pulled will give me a better idea if I'll be able to break into the 10s or not.
So you ran both the fastest times (10.64/9.64) shifting at those rpms? Why did you shift so early on the 1-2 shift? Lastly, are you trying to break your own record shifting a bit higher? Thanks. Oh yeah, what was your 60 ft. on the naturally aspirated pass and what do you usually pull? If you say its all in the 60, then telling me what you pulled will give me a better idea if I'll be able to break into the 10s or not.