Coolant leak! MTI 427
02-25-2005, 04:52 PM
#81
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Originally Posted by Visceral
This is all like arguing if Superman is stronger than Spiderman. I don't know anyone here that is capable of max'ing out either block design, properly installed.
I'd be happy to let this thread turn into that discussion, since I bet LASTLS1 and David Coates will work something out.
But in Ferris's words;
"The Europeans could be Fascist Anarchists... it still doesnt change the fact that I don't own a car."
I'd be happy to let this thread turn into that discussion, since I bet LASTLS1 and David Coates will work something out.
But in Ferris's words;
"The Europeans could be Fascist Anarchists... it still doesnt change the fact that I don't own a car."
Yeah but if it was superman or spiderman then there would be no issue and the price would be much lower... 
02-25-2005, 04:58 PM
#82
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Originally Posted by Visceral
So then the obvious question... What does Speed, Inc have to say about it? MTI takes your customer information (as you posted) and perhaps can't find anything about you. I would imagine Speed Inc, as the folks you bought it from, may have some leverage... and some responsibility.
02-25-2005, 05:00 PM
#83
I would NEVER buy a sleeved block.Thank God for the LS2.
Look at Lee's(Fear the LS1) 408, makes like 570 rwhp(Futral motor)
if you can save the weight of the iron block with an LS2, screw sleeves,
they ain't worth it.
It's like my motto "more is not always better". That's why I run a basically stock motor.
Look at Lee's(Fear the LS1) 408, makes like 570 rwhp(Futral motor)
if you can save the weight of the iron block with an LS2, screw sleeves,
they ain't worth it.
It's like my motto "more is not always better". That's why I run a basically stock motor.
02-25-2005, 06:29 PM
#84
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Originally Posted by LASTLS1
Jason was notified. I was cc'd on the emails that were sent. I saw the replys that were sent from Jason. I sent a email through Speed inc. Speed has offered to help with the problem. I know for a fact THEY didn't install the sleeves. I did buy the motor from them, it's a tuff call. I don't want to feel like I'm taking advantage of being a good customer. I don't know the leverage Speed has with MTI. I would hope they did everything they could. Like I said, it's a tuff call.
I don't want to seem like I am jumping on the anti-sponsor bandwagon. I ran a 224 cam from MTI and loved it and am a very loyal Speed Inc. customer. I am just pro-protection for the people and I have seen a lot of threads of this type. Some get resolved, some don't. I personally have been ripped off by one sponsor "un named" on this board and believe that if at any time a sponsor knowingly rips a member off they should be banned...
Hopefully everything will get resolved in your favor.
Off the soap box.
02-25-2005, 09:43 PM
#85
Lemans Hello, the reason GM runs the C5R at Lemans is because they make it!
Several Viper teams have won Lemans multiple times using Darton sleeves in modified blocks. I make Viper wet sleeves of my own design using Darton blanks for a shop here in Temecula. They have a supercharged car on the street with a block I did for them last summer with 960 rwhp no leaks no problems at all. I've done several more since.
The C5R block is not without it's problems which I'm not going to get into here. I'm not getting into a pissing match about it.
Any block that is to be sleeved needs 1) sleeves that are correctly designed for the application 2) someone with excellent machining skills 3) the correct tooling and CNC equipment 4) Knowledge or training to do the installation so there will be very little chance of problems.
My above statements cover both wet and dry sleeve installations by the way. I do many wet and dry sleeve installations on a multitude of model engines not just the LS blocks. It is not as easy as it looks!
I have an LS2 block here that I will soon dissect. I have spoken with the folks at Darton about wet and dry liners for this block. Could be the current MID sleeves will work as is but I won't know until the block is opened up.
We are going to make a purpose built dry liner for this block. One can not take a standard straight wall flanged sleeve for a Dart, Rodeck, etc. block and expect it to work in the LS2. If things were that easy I would just go down to Darton and pick up a bunch of liners out of stock. There is a lot more involved than that. Lack of knowledge - poor design, was and still is the reason for all the problems with dropped liners, out of round liners and so on.
Any new block casting whether iron or aluminum, head casting, whatever, will distort upon use. Yes, even a brand new unresleeved GM casting will distort after several heat, cool down cycles. For a racing or high performance engine one is always better off starting with a well used block. If that is not possible, the new block must be stress relieved if there is to be any hope of it staying straight and cylinders remaining round. If Last LS1's block was brand new that would explain why that sleeve is now above the block deck surface. I may or may not be able to fix that block but I am willing to try to help him out.
Several Viper teams have won Lemans multiple times using Darton sleeves in modified blocks. I make Viper wet sleeves of my own design using Darton blanks for a shop here in Temecula. They have a supercharged car on the street with a block I did for them last summer with 960 rwhp no leaks no problems at all. I've done several more since.
The C5R block is not without it's problems which I'm not going to get into here. I'm not getting into a pissing match about it.
Any block that is to be sleeved needs 1) sleeves that are correctly designed for the application 2) someone with excellent machining skills 3) the correct tooling and CNC equipment 4) Knowledge or training to do the installation so there will be very little chance of problems.
My above statements cover both wet and dry sleeve installations by the way. I do many wet and dry sleeve installations on a multitude of model engines not just the LS blocks. It is not as easy as it looks!
I have an LS2 block here that I will soon dissect. I have spoken with the folks at Darton about wet and dry liners for this block. Could be the current MID sleeves will work as is but I won't know until the block is opened up.
We are going to make a purpose built dry liner for this block. One can not take a standard straight wall flanged sleeve for a Dart, Rodeck, etc. block and expect it to work in the LS2. If things were that easy I would just go down to Darton and pick up a bunch of liners out of stock. There is a lot more involved than that. Lack of knowledge - poor design, was and still is the reason for all the problems with dropped liners, out of round liners and so on.
Any new block casting whether iron or aluminum, head casting, whatever, will distort upon use. Yes, even a brand new unresleeved GM casting will distort after several heat, cool down cycles. For a racing or high performance engine one is always better off starting with a well used block. If that is not possible, the new block must be stress relieved if there is to be any hope of it staying straight and cylinders remaining round. If Last LS1's block was brand new that would explain why that sleeve is now above the block deck surface. I may or may not be able to fix that block but I am willing to try to help him out.
Originally Posted by JS
Gm runs a C5r,There is no way a Darton is better than a C5R or they would run one.
I wont believe it and no one will convince me,Put your Darton in a Lemans car and run it for 24Hrs and then tell me its as good.
C5R is the best.
I wont believe it and no one will convince me,Put your Darton in a Lemans car and run it for 24Hrs and then tell me its as good.
C5R is the best.
__________________
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
02-25-2005, 10:24 PM
#87
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Originally Posted by Steve - Race Eng
Hello, the reason GM runs the C5R at Lemans is because they make it!
Several Viper teams have won Lemans multiple times using Darton sleeves in modified blocks. I make Viper wet sleeves of my own design using Darton blanks for a shop here in Temecula. They have a supercharged car on the street with a block I did for them last summer with 960 rwhp no leaks no problems at all. I've done several more since.
The C5R block is not without it's problems which I'm not going to get into here. I'm not getting into a pissing match about it.
Any block that is to be sleeved needs 1) sleeves that are correctly designed for the application 2) someone with excellent machining skills 3) the correct tooling and CNC equipment 4) Knowledge or training to do the installation so there will be very little chance of problems.
My above statements cover both wet and dry sleeve installations by the way. I do many wet and dry sleeve installations on a multitude of model engines not just the LS blocks. It is not as easy as it looks!
I have an LS2 block here that I will soon dissect. I have spoken with the folks at Darton about wet and dry liners for this block. Could be the current MID sleeves will work as is but I won't know until the block is opened up.
We are going to make a purpose built dry liner for this block. One can not take a standard straight wall flanged sleeve for a Dart, Rodeck, etc. block and expect it to work in the LS2. If things were that easy I would just go down to Darton and pick up a bunch of liners out of stock. There is a lot more involved than that. Lack of knowledge - poor design, was and still is the reason for all the problems with dropped liners, out of round liners and so on.
Any new block casting whether iron or aluminum, head casting, whatever, will distort upon use. Yes, even a brand new unresleeved GM casting will distort after several heat, cool down cycles. For a racing or high performance engine one is always better off starting with a well used block. If that is not possible, the new block must be stress relieved if there is to be any hope of it staying straight and cylinders remaining round. If Last LS1's block was brand new that would explain why that sleeve is now above the block deck surface. I may or may not be able to fix that block but I am willing to try to help him out.
Several Viper teams have won Lemans multiple times using Darton sleeves in modified blocks. I make Viper wet sleeves of my own design using Darton blanks for a shop here in Temecula. They have a supercharged car on the street with a block I did for them last summer with 960 rwhp no leaks no problems at all. I've done several more since.
The C5R block is not without it's problems which I'm not going to get into here. I'm not getting into a pissing match about it.
Any block that is to be sleeved needs 1) sleeves that are correctly designed for the application 2) someone with excellent machining skills 3) the correct tooling and CNC equipment 4) Knowledge or training to do the installation so there will be very little chance of problems.
My above statements cover both wet and dry sleeve installations by the way. I do many wet and dry sleeve installations on a multitude of model engines not just the LS blocks. It is not as easy as it looks!
I have an LS2 block here that I will soon dissect. I have spoken with the folks at Darton about wet and dry liners for this block. Could be the current MID sleeves will work as is but I won't know until the block is opened up.
We are going to make a purpose built dry liner for this block. One can not take a standard straight wall flanged sleeve for a Dart, Rodeck, etc. block and expect it to work in the LS2. If things were that easy I would just go down to Darton and pick up a bunch of liners out of stock. There is a lot more involved than that. Lack of knowledge - poor design, was and still is the reason for all the problems with dropped liners, out of round liners and so on.
Any new block casting whether iron or aluminum, head casting, whatever, will distort upon use. Yes, even a brand new unresleeved GM casting will distort after several heat, cool down cycles. For a racing or high performance engine one is always better off starting with a well used block. If that is not possible, the new block must be stress relieved if there is to be any hope of it staying straight and cylinders remaining round. If Last LS1's block was brand new that would explain why that sleeve is now above the block deck surface. I may or may not be able to fix that block but I am willing to try to help him out.
02-25-2005, 10:30 PM
#88
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On a side note, You don't have to talk to Steve long to find out the wealth of knowledge he has on the sleeved blocks! I love talking and learning from people with such great knowledge. Bryan at LME also seemed to know his stuff on the iron block set up!
Last edited by LASTLS1; 02-26-2005 at 11:26 AM.
02-26-2005, 12:32 AM
#90
Originally Posted by LASTLS1
On a side note, You don't have to talk to Steve long to find out the wealth of knowledge he has on the sleeved blocks! I love talking and learning from people with such great knowledge. Brian at LME also seemed to know his stuff on the iron block set up!
steves the man 
02-26-2005, 11:49 AM
#93
Originally Posted by Steve - Race Eng
Hello, the reason GM runs the C5R at Lemans is because they make it!
Several Viper teams have won Lemans multiple times using Darton sleeves in modified blocks. I make Viper wet sleeves of my own design using Darton blanks for a shop here in Temecula. They have a supercharged car on the street with a block I did for them last summer with 960 rwhp no leaks no problems at all. I've done several more since.
The C5R block is not without it's problems which I'm not going to get into here. I'm not getting into a pissing match about it.
Several Viper teams have won Lemans multiple times using Darton sleeves in modified blocks. I make Viper wet sleeves of my own design using Darton blanks for a shop here in Temecula. They have a supercharged car on the street with a block I did for them last summer with 960 rwhp no leaks no problems at all. I've done several more since.
The C5R block is not without it's problems which I'm not going to get into here. I'm not getting into a pissing match about it.
02-26-2005, 09:39 PM
#95
Originally Posted by 11 Bravo
But so-and-so says the C5R is way stronger lol. Glad you came in here and shot some of the bs mis-information down. Again.
I couldn't give a rats *** which is stronger... I'm nowhere near the limits of either...and I have Darten wet sleeves.
But where did Steve say that the C5R block *was not* "stronger" (whatever that means) than a Darton Wet Sleeved LS6 or LS1 block? He came in and said that both have their strong points. But he didnt come in and shoot up someone's post.
*INSTALLED PROPERLY* no-one I have ever heard of has broken a Darton Wet setup from the last ... say... 18 months.
I have never heard of anyone breaking a C5R block either.
Has anyone here heard (first hand) of such a thing?
Now, given that it's a resounding NO... the fact remains:
If you want a bore greater than 4" and in an Aluminum block, you can either find someone who you trust to build a Darton Wet sleeve block (and noone doubts Steve can do just that)... or you can buy a C5R block.
My Darton Wet-Sleeve was done with a well-seasoned LS6 block. (I seasoned it myself
). I have had no problems so far. If I do have problems, I am faithful that Jayson and MTI will help me out.I have first hand experience to back up both of these. Other than LASTLS1 and 2001CamaroGuy, do any of you have first hand experience with MTI wet-sleeves?
02-26-2005, 09:43 PM
#96
Originally Posted by LASTLS1
Speed has offered to help with the problem. I did buy the motor from them, it's a tuff call. I don't want to feel like I'm taking advantage of being a good customer.
02-26-2005, 09:58 PM
#97
Originally Posted by Visceral
But where did Steve say that the C5R block *was not* "stronger" (whatever that means) than a Darton Wet Sleeved LS6 or LS1 block? He came in and said that both have their strong points. But he didnt come in and shoot up someone's post.
02-26-2005, 10:50 PM
#98
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Guys I dont check in here much anymore. When it comes to Darton Block problems I have been there and done that. I also sent my block to Steve for repairs. I will chime in if anyone wants my opinion or BS stories. Good Luck with your motor. I needed a clean up and new pistons at 500 miles. 
Bear
Bear
02-27-2005, 01:38 AM
#99
Anyone can tell u anything
GM runs it and they have endless cash and could R&D's a Wet block but they didnt so IMO the C5R is the BEST block for a big bore and no one will ever convince me of anything else..
I think the next best thing is a LS2 big bore and then a Darton last..
It my opinion weather its right on wrong and I'm entitiled to it.
The bottom line is hopefully MTI will take care of this mess and u will be racing/driving your car very soon.
Good luck......
GM runs it and they have endless cash and could R&D's a Wet block but they didnt so IMO the C5R is the BEST block for a big bore and no one will ever convince me of anything else..
I think the next best thing is a LS2 big bore and then a Darton last..
It my opinion weather its right on wrong and I'm entitiled to it.
The bottom line is hopefully MTI will take care of this mess and u will be racing/driving your car very soon.
Good luck......
02-27-2005, 01:57 AM
#100
Originally Posted by JS
It my opinion weather its right on wrong and I'm entitiled to it.
Good luck......
Good luck......
I wish more people could realize that everyone has opinions and everyone is entitled to believe what they want. Just b/c one's opinion doesn't agree with whomever's doesn't make that person wrong as it is just an opinion, whether it's based on facts or not.