99CamaroSS_

Mods. in comment. Trying to figure out the best patriot heads for my setup.

http://www.lmperformance.com/c/6/1.html

Which ones would give me the most power for not that much of a cost? what all other things do i need gaskets, ext. also for install? Thanks.
the ls6 heads fit on ls1 correct just wanted to make sure.
also what is the diff. between assembly and Bare?

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

If the recall of some of the Patriot heads wasn't enough to make you not want them, the lower than average performance they will give you should. You should spend an extra hundred or 2 bucks and get these: https://ls1tech.com/forums/sponsor-sales-specials/293780-tea-5-3-stage-1-5-sale.html If you do that, you'll save yourself alot of time by going ahead and getting one of the best heads out there. The performance you would gain over the Patriots would be awesome. The diffrence between assembled and bare is that one come assembaled with valves, springs, locks, and retainers. The bares are nothing but the head casting. Don't let the Stage 1,2,3 crap fool you. You'll get far more performance from the TEA 1.5's than you will the Stage 2 or 3 LS-6 "style" heads. FYI, they are not real LS-6 castings.

99CamaroSS_

thanks man. i appreciate the info. any other suggestions about heads would be nice as well, ill check these ones out.

pdd

iTrader: (3)

tea or afr

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

There are many other heads out there, but the price on the ones above is about the best you can do for the amount of head you are getting.

99CamaroSS_

those TEA sound sweet, i sent that guy a pm to find out how long that sale is goin on. Those would be sweet for my setup.

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

They are deffinatlly great heads. I'm glad you can see past the hype of the Stage numbers. Most just think that a Stage 2 has to be better a Stage 1 and so on. In reality, it couldn't be farther from the truth. It's always good to compare the amount of flow per the size of the runner. You should also check the HP numbers and customer support. TEA has all of the above.

99CamaroSS_

yea they do sound good. What would be the difference if i were to get the 5.3 stage 1.5 over the 5.7 stage 1.5? the price are pretty much the same... so whats the difference?

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

The 5.3's and the 5.7's carry the same port, but the 5.3's have a smaller combustion chamber. This allows you to have a bit more compression without having to mill your heads, thus not loosing any piston to valve clearence. 5.3's are usaully the way to go unless you have crappy gas in your town.

Ed Curtis

If Tony Mamo's C5 running 11.29 at 124 with a small 224-228 camshaft and a set of AFR 205 heads isn't enough to show you how good these heads are, I don't know what can be said to convince you!



Ed

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

That'd be great if everyone could do that Ed, but I haven't seen many people be able to duplicate what he has done. It's also aggrivating to think that you would have to buy every single mod he has and have LAPD do your tuning to get close to the same numbers. I'll agree that they are nice out of the box heads, but I still believe there are better heads out there. These just haven't lived up to the "hype" that was surrounding them. Everybody has there own opinion, and this is just mine.

Tony Mamo @ AFR

iTrader: (13)

I respectfully beg to differ....

Quite a few independent shops AND individuals for that matter have seen excellent results....especially the ones that don't have an interest in selling their reworked factory castings. Dont forget guys....there is "economics" involved in a lot of the advice you might be getting. Don't take my word for it or theirs....do your homework and try to get truly unbiased facts from independent sources (not so easy to do).

And as far as these heads not "living up to the hype"....thats pure BS in my opinion. Did you expect another 50 HP over some of the better stuff out there?....Lets be realistic here. These heads consistantly deliver the goods, especially when time and care is put into the install and the tune. And dont forget, most of the info you are guaging us by is using our 205 "street" head....wait till more 225 headed combo's start hitting the street.

Thats my opinion...

Right back at ya...

Tony M.

PS....I have seen you constantly put down AFR's stuff and have been biting my tongue the entire time....It gets a little frustrating when I KNOW the product we offer is quality.

99CamaroSS_

Tony what kind of Power increase did you see when you did these heads over the stock ones? or did you do a cam/heads package at the same time? if so how much hp increase was it? i would like to know thanks!

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

Let's look at it like this Tony, I in no way am intending to put down your product. I also wouldn't bash something that I have on my car, which is a set of AFR castings. I'm sure there are a few shops, mostly LAPD, that was able to reproduce your numbers, but for every person that I have seen make that numbers, there were people who were dissappointed with lower numbers. There are 2 sides to every opinion, and this is just they way I feel. I think you offer a great out of the box head, but when it comes down to it, I don't think they are "the best". I do believe others offer more in some instances. Please don't fell the need to be frustrated over what I say. I'm not trying to harm your rep or buisness, but every time you may pimp your product as "the best", your impacting another buisness economically also. That's what's good about these boards, you get lots of opinions, whether they help or hurt you. There's no need to "bite your tounge". I'll agree that you have a quality product. You've helped me out before, and I in no way intend to upset you. If you still fell "unsettled", shoot me a PM and I'm sure we can handle it respectfully.

C_Williams

I bet there are better heads/cam/tuning combo out there but at what price? I can't believe you will find a more repeatable, cost effective setup than Tony's.

In addition, and on a more personal note, LAPD did not deliver that tune, I did. LAPD has a nice dyno, and that is the extent to which LAPD earned any credit for Tony’s numbers.

2c5s

iTrader: (11)

And thats the name of that tune.

Builder

Let's keep this in perspective... The best at what? Who out there has the best heads for every setup? I would sure like to know. That way, I could go to the drags and win...go to the road-course and win...go to the modifieds and win...the oval, ect, etc, etc. See where I am going here?

Yes, performance has a lot to do with the tune. Of course, that is after the hardware is already in place. It's difficult, isn't it, to say that one person's success or failure is based strictly on the heads?

100 percent of the physical aspects (cam, pistons, rods, stroke, deck height...) of the engine design is not always within control of a head manufacturer (in fact, almost never). Therefore, it's MY opinion that nobody is the best. There may be a "best setup" for an individual configuration with a specific goal, but how are you going to know what that is without experience? Experience, like that of the engine builder sponsors, is critical to a successful design, which can then be successfully tuned to yield it's potential.

Sorry for the rant, but I have been reading this board for a year preparing to make (what I consider to be) a substantial investment in a power-plant for a car I am building. I don't have piles of extra cash to make a mistake on $2,500 heads (or any other parts). Now that the car is closer, I can focus on the right combination. If there's one thing I have learned, it's the complete combination that counts...not just the heads.

Lastly, companies sink or swim on reputation...that is, their product, pricing, and service. Those that do it right 80 percent of the time will survive. Those with higher averages will thrive. My guess is most of the sponsors of this board do it better than most, or they wouldn't be here too long. From what I can tell, TEA and AFR in the top 5 percent in all categories; product, pricing, and service. I am sure, with the right combination of other components designed for a specific goal, either company is capable of delivering the numbers. It then comes down to personal choice, or that of your engine builder. Rant over...