Big power in an A4
Big power in an A4 Ok, I've done some research and know a little of my options. This is where I have some questions.
Here is what I'm looking for:
-STOCK displacement LS1
-no Forced Ind, no juice
-no HUGE nasty cam
-Street driveable and reliable - this is the key
-475 rwhp @ 20% driveline loss works to ~ 600 flywheel hp.
Here is what I will be doing in preparation:
-high strength aluminum driveshaft
-Stage 2 4L60E (600hp, 650 ftlbs) from cmotorsports.com
-Vig 3000 stall
-tranny cooler
-suspension to handle the power
-Rearend......???
Here are my questions:
1. With that much power, can i beef up the stock 10 bolt? : with (30, 31, 33? spline axles), tougher limited slip, TA cover (also want to go with 3.42:1 gears)
2. With Stage 2 heads, a moderate cam, excellent tuning, will that achieve the 475 i'm looking for?
3. If not, will forged internals: pistons, crankshaft (if there are any), balancing and blueprinting the engine get the power i'm looking for?
4. If I can't use a beefed up rear end, what rear end should I get? I have a BMR adj. torque arm, that can't work with a 12 bolt, so what would i need to get that would work.
PS. I'm not setting a price limit here. Well....under $10k.
Here is what I'm looking for:
-STOCK displacement LS1
-no Forced Ind, no juice
-no HUGE nasty cam
-Street driveable and reliable - this is the key
-475 rwhp @ 20% driveline loss works to ~ 600 flywheel hp.
Here is what I will be doing in preparation:
-high strength aluminum driveshaft
-Stage 2 4L60E (600hp, 650 ftlbs) from cmotorsports.com
-Vig 3000 stall
-tranny cooler
-suspension to handle the power
-Rearend......???
Here are my questions:
1. With that much power, can i beef up the stock 10 bolt? : with (30, 31, 33? spline axles), tougher limited slip, TA cover (also want to go with 3.42:1 gears)
2. With Stage 2 heads, a moderate cam, excellent tuning, will that achieve the 475 i'm looking for?
3. If not, will forged internals: pistons, crankshaft (if there are any), balancing and blueprinting the engine get the power i'm looking for?
4. If I can't use a beefed up rear end, what rear end should I get? I have a BMR adj. torque arm, that can't work with a 12 bolt, so what would i need to get that would work.
PS. I'm not setting a price limit here. Well....under $10k.
Those are some big questions and some strong opinions that go with them. It can be done easily for 10K or less.. I will give u some food for thought to help u out a little. If you do heads and cam, dont forget the headers,exhaust and intake.. How streetable do u want the car? The rear end is a must with bigger numbers.. either 9" or 12 bolt ( debatible on what is better), its not worth the money to beef up a 10 bolt.. I personally went with a TH 350, i dont believe there is a bullet proof 4l60E. The biggest thing is to decide exactley what u want to do and come up with a plan. Thats way your doing it right the 1st time and not back tracking. Take into consideration cam size, stall and gear ratio..Good Luck and have fun. Its a long journey and it never ends..
Launching!
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 252
Likes: 0
From: Kansas
Well with as big of a cam as your going to need, I would go with a 4000+ converter. Also, there are packages out there. Talk to Matt at TTp. They have one hell of a package. TSP and Thunder are also great when it comes to this stuff. ------> just look at the sponcers....Ohhh yeah, and there IS no built proof tranny(4L60E) If i were you, I would go to a TH350/400. Now your losing OD but they do make OD kits for it...it is just an arm and a leg i believe. But good luck 
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
what you want is almost impossible...
w/o a huge cam it isn't likely to happen in a 346 ls1...look around...the huge nasty heads/cam cars sometimes get near (maybe a couple have eclipsed 500rw) that mark...and those are m6 cars...nothing like an a4 when comparing numbers. what you are right about is that it will take some serious flywheel hp in an auto to get 475rw.
if you can get 400-450 unlocked through a 4l60e with a big stall you are already doing pretty good...even that usually takes a pretty decent size cam and good heads...
if you are really looking to hit 475 N/A in an auto you should be looking at a 408 not a 346...
you want to make 550+flywheel in a 346 ls1 with a moderate size cam...not easy
w/o a huge cam it isn't likely to happen in a 346 ls1...look around...the huge nasty heads/cam cars sometimes get near (maybe a couple have eclipsed 500rw) that mark...and those are m6 cars...nothing like an a4 when comparing numbers. what you are right about is that it will take some serious flywheel hp in an auto to get 475rw.
if you can get 400-450 unlocked through a 4l60e with a big stall you are already doing pretty good...even that usually takes a pretty decent size cam and good heads...
if you are really looking to hit 475 N/A in an auto you should be looking at a 408 not a 346...
you want to make 550+flywheel in a 346 ls1 with a moderate size cam...not easy
11 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,320
Likes: 0
From: NE PA
Sorry, but there's no frigging way you're going to get 475 rwhp out of a stock-displacement A4 car without using either a "HUGE nasty cam" or a power adder (FI or NO2). One or the other is EXACTLY what you're going to need to make anything near what you're hoping for.
11 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,524
Likes: 1
From: The South
I agree, do not count on getting 475 rwhp out of a small cammed NA 346. You could probably get 430-450 without too much trouble. Larger cam (not huge), AFR's, 90mm LSX/TB combo and all bolt-ons.
For the cam, Maybe something like the MS3 (237/242 .603/.609 113) or G5X3/4. IMO it's about as large as you can go and be totally streetable for a daily driver.
For the cam, Maybe something like the MS3 (237/242 .603/.609 113) or G5X3/4. IMO it's about as large as you can go and be totally streetable for a daily driver.
Originally Posted by XTrooper
Sorry, but there's no frigging way you're going to get 475 rwhp out of a stock-displacement A4 car without using either a "HUGE nasty cam" or a power adder (FI or NO2). One or the other is EXACTLY what you're going to need to make anything near what you're hoping for.
I agree.
Be happy to get 430 with a Very top notch set of heads, 11.0 or better compression, a cam that is in the low 230 duration area or bigger, fast 90/90 combo, Tune, and all other boltons.
Converter is also too small
Trending Topics
TECH Resident
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 848
Likes: 1
From: Working in the shop 24/7
Originally Posted by JZ'sTA
I agree.
Be happy to get 430 with a Very top notch set of heads, 11.0 or better compression, a cam that is in the low 230 duration area or bigger, fast 90/90 combo, Tune, and all other boltons.
Converter is also too small
Be happy to get 430 with a Very top notch set of heads, 11.0 or better compression, a cam that is in the low 230 duration area or bigger, fast 90/90 combo, Tune, and all other boltons.
Converter is also too small
435 RWHP, small cam, AFR heads and a it's a DD...
Ed
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Not to spark some huge discussion on driveline loss but I don't think you'll need 600 @ the crank to do 475 to the rear wheels in an A4, especially with a 10 bolt and a lockup converter.
600 HP @ the crank out of a 346 = 1.73 HP per Cube should be done easily. Now with your requirements of No Big Nasty Cam, and "Reliable" are all subjective to your own personal preference.
600 HP @ the crank out of a 346 = 1.73 HP per Cube should be done easily. Now with your requirements of No Big Nasty Cam, and "Reliable" are all subjective to your own personal preference.
Originally Posted by EDC
Go to LS1GTO.com and check out "Bone" and his mods...
435 RWHP, small cam, AFR heads and a it's a DD...
Ed
435 RWHP, small cam, AFR heads and a it's a DD...
Ed
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
Originally Posted by EDC
Go to LS1GTO.com and check out "Bone" and his mods...
435 RWHP, small cam, AFR heads and a it's a DD...
Ed
435 RWHP, small cam, AFR heads and a it's a DD...
Ed
that motor would only have to make another 125hp to meet this guys desires...
TECH Resident
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 848
Likes: 1
From: Working in the shop 24/7
Originally Posted by GoFast908Z
It's an M6 and that kind of power is much easier than in an Auto.
Using similar pieces will net the same gains in performance.
This is why I hate all this chassis dyno crap. People get all hung up on a "peak" figure. The power levels this GTO combo made are easily duplicated with an automatic. With the correct torque converter, it'll be even faster than the M6 he's got, let alone it's going into an F-body...
Ed
11 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,524
Likes: 1
From: The South
My A4 with 4k stall makes 385 rwhp cam only. If you were to add 60 rwhp between heads and 90mm LSX intake (very plausible) it would be at 445 rwhp. Given that, and dynos I've seen, I'd say 430-450 rwhp in a NA 346 through an unlocked high stall converter, while retaining daily drivability, should be possible. I'll know for myself eventually.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
Originally Posted by EDC
Does the engine know what's behind it????
Using similar pieces will net the same gains in performance.
This is why I hate all this chassis dyno crap. People get all hung up on a "peak" figure. The power levels this GTO combo made are easily duplicated with an automatic. With the correct torque converter, it'll be even faster than the M6 he's got, let alone it's going into an F-body...
Ed
Using similar pieces will net the same gains in performance.
This is why I hate all this chassis dyno crap. People get all hung up on a "peak" figure. The power levels this GTO combo made are easily duplicated with an automatic. With the correct torque converter, it'll be even faster than the M6 he's got, let alone it's going into an F-body...
Ed
Originally Posted by mikemodano9c
yah that's a solid 400-410rw in an auto w/stall...
that motor would only have to make another 125hp to meet this guys desires...
that motor would only have to make another 125hp to meet this guys desires...
Hey, I'm just trying to find out what I can and can't do. I've never really seen super high numbers out of an A4, so I want to know what CAN be done. As I learn more, I'm adjusting my "requirements"
See my new thread. 
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
Originally Posted by blkZ28spt
My A4 with 4k stall makes 385 rwhp cam only. If you were to add 60 rwhp between heads and 90mm LSX intake (very plausible) it would be at 445 rwhp. Given that, and dynos I've seen, I'd say 430-450 rwhp in a NA 346 through an unlocked high stall converter, while retaining daily drivability, should be possible. I'll know for myself eventually.
the graph looks locked to me, if im wrong please let me know...unlocked you would probably only be at around 370-375rw...
im not shitting on your numbers by any means, all we are trying to say is that 475 through an A4 locked or unlocked isn't gonna be easy, and is more a stretch than anything no matter what mods you do...
im sure with some good heads like some afr's and a 90/90, etc. you will see your projected 440~450 numbers...that's about as good as it's gonna get through an A4 @ 346 cubes with a hydraulic cam...
11 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,320
Likes: 0
From: NE PA
Originally Posted by EDC
Does the engine know what's behind it????
Using similar pieces will net the same gains in performance.
This is why I hate all this chassis dyno crap. People get all hung up on a "peak" figure. The power levels this GTO combo made are easily duplicated with an automatic. With the correct torque converter, it'll be even faster than the M6 he's got, let alone it's going into an F-body...
Ed
Using similar pieces will net the same gains in performance.
This is why I hate all this chassis dyno crap. People get all hung up on a "peak" figure. The power levels this GTO combo made are easily duplicated with an automatic. With the correct torque converter, it'll be even faster than the M6 he's got, let alone it's going into an F-body...
Ed
Your example doesn't fit the bill and your argument is the wrong one.
11 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,524
Likes: 1
From: The South
I seriously wonder about my dyno. People have told me it looks locked to them, I myself don't really know what to think, and Larry at LS1 speed was almost positive that it was done unlocked. So....
It does only trap 113, although it is an A4 and I do expect that to pick up when fall comes around. I ran the 11.92 @ 112.8 in June.
It does only trap 113, although it is an A4 and I do expect that to pick up when fall comes around. I ran the 11.92 @ 112.8 in June. TECH Resident
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 848
Likes: 1
From: Working in the shop 24/7
Originally Posted by XTrooper
No one is arguing that performance would be as good or better. Hell, we all know that. The problem is that wasn't the stated goal of the poster and that wasn't his question. He stated he wanted to make a streetable 475 rwhp in his A4 car, period.
Your example doesn't fit the bill and your argument is the wrong one.
Your example doesn't fit the bill and your argument is the wrong one.
475 streetable with the "small" cam criteria in not possible. Bone's streetable package was more in line with the 430 spec that JZ alluded to...
My bad for agreeing with the majority.
I guess next time I'll tell him to run a set of Stage 7.25 ported LS-9.75 heads with a Magic-Rex-X7 camshaft and a super-douper twenty disc lockup torque converter to make 1000 RWHP on a Cyclotronic Model LSD chassis dyno.
Then we can race each other by taping our dyno sheets to the side windows...
Heads-up "Pro Street Dyno" racing at its best!
Wait! I can't race with him since I only have my "Super Street Flow Bench" license.
Ed