CheaTR cam--opinions wanted
CheaTR cam--opinions wanted swap intended for 2000WS6
this is intended for daily driver status. I don't want the expense or hassle of headers so the CheaTR appeals to me as it's designed for stock manifold use.
At $599 for swap package not too bad, but they say I need titanium retainers for another $129 which at this point is starting to become expensive lol.
Well wanted some thoughts out here
John
this is intended for daily driver status. I don't want the expense or hassle of headers so the CheaTR appeals to me as it's designed for stock manifold use.
At $599 for swap package not too bad, but they say I need titanium retainers for another $129 which at this point is starting to become expensive lol.
Well wanted some thoughts out here
John
Teching In
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 15
Likes: 2
From: Sunny Florida
Originally Posted by CoronaL
swap intended for 2000WS6
this is intended for daily driver status. I don't want the expense or hassle of headers so the CheaTR appeals to me as it's designed for stock manifold use.
At $599 for swap package not too bad, but they say I need titanium retainers for another $129 which at this point is starting to become expensive lol.
Well wanted some thoughts out here
John
this is intended for daily driver status. I don't want the expense or hassle of headers so the CheaTR appeals to me as it's designed for stock manifold use.
At $599 for swap package not too bad, but they say I need titanium retainers for another $129 which at this point is starting to become expensive lol.
Well wanted some thoughts out here
John
Originally Posted by CoronaL
swap intended for 2000WS6
this is intended for daily driver status. I don't want the expense or hassle of headers so the CheaTR appeals to me as it's designed for stock manifold use.
At $599 for swap package not too bad, but they say I need titanium retainers for another $129 which at this point is starting to become expensive lol.
Well wanted some thoughts out here
John
this is intended for daily driver status. I don't want the expense or hassle of headers so the CheaTR appeals to me as it's designed for stock manifold use.
At $599 for swap package not too bad, but they say I need titanium retainers for another $129 which at this point is starting to become expensive lol.
Well wanted some thoughts out here
John
Cam install isn't really something to skimp on. You may want to save up for a little while longer and do it right.
New pushrods, ported oil pump, and a new timing chain are definately recommended while you're doing a cam swap (at least the first one).
Tit. Retainers are lighter/stronger than the stock pieces, and again are a good idea to use .... but you can use the stock ones if you wanted.
$599 package includes springs and pushrods, but the oilpump isn't so I was also thinking of that too :O
hrm
well I dunno know now. Everything always ends up costing about 3x as much as I originally intend
hrm
well I dunno know now. Everything always ends up costing about 3x as much as I originally intend
You can re-used your stock timing chain and oil pump if the mileage is resonable. Ti retainers allow you to more easily run the rpm the CheaTR is capable of. Think 6800 rpm (if you wanted to).
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
How does it sound at idle? A little lope I assume. I had the FM15 in my '69 but it wasn't going to be a daily driver. If I get one for the '01, I may go with this one b/c it probably won't ever see time at the track.
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
From: El Paso TX
I am doing a cam only swap as well. My engine has 95000+ but has never seen used nothing but synthetic fluids. I am going to do a timing chain and the LS6 oil pump. I still dont know what cam to go with though. It's costing me about 2 g's at TSP with tunning.
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Originally Posted by CoronaL
$599 package includes springs and pushrods, but the oilpump isn't so I was also thinking of that too :O
hrm
well I dunno know now. Everything always ends up costing about 3x as much as I originally intend
hrm
well I dunno know now. Everything always ends up costing about 3x as much as I originally intend
I am always a big promoter of the "do it right the first time" mind set .... The stock LS1 oil pump is definately a weak link when you are above the 6k range, and would really be a bad idea to rip the whole thing down and not change it. Considering the damage/work you have to go through if the pump fails, I think the extra money is worth it. The timing chain is a must if you're above 50k miles ... if that badboy breaks, you're screweeeeeed. Figure if you spend the extra $2-300 bucks on all this stuff now, you really shouldn't have to worry about it for years to come.
Cam, springs, pushrods, gasket kit, $600
Timing chain, $100 ... (would definately do if you're over 50k)
Ported Oil Pump, $150 ... (would strongly recommend, period)
Tit. Retainers, $100 ... (will help you get the most out of your setup)
And Don't Forget the Random Little **** ...
GM Keepers, $20
Coolant, $20
Oil / Filter, $40
Lifter Tool, Dowel, or Lots of Pen Magnets, $20-$60
Spring Compressor, Depends on what you get (Possibly rent one?)
That should be everything you need, and totals slightly over $1,000.
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From what I was told you don't need a ported oil pump, just get the regular LS6 pump which is like $75 @ SDCP and get the LS2 timing chain for $28 at the same place.
With the money saved you can buy a used ASP pulley which adds another 10hp.
It doesn't have to cost much, here's my costs so far with amassing parts for a cam install:
used F11 cam, $250 shipped - bought from member, low miles perfect working condition.
PRC Spring kit: $250 shipped- bought from member, kit brand new never used
pushrods: Can get these used for around $75 shipped or brand new at TSP for $109 + shipping. I am still tried to find a used set.
LS6 oil pump: $75+shipping brand new at SDCP
LS2 Timing chain: $28+shipping brand new at SDCP
GM gasket kit: around $45 new.
Total cost is around $750 and if I add a used ASP pulley + belt about $875.
Than add in the little extra's like phantom pointed out. if you can do it yourself the only other thing you need to add in is perhaps a few tools and the all important dyno tune which is $250-$450 depending on the shops near you.
If you can't do it yourself than also add $350-600 for install, again depending on your particular shop. I am going to try and install it with the help of a friend, so all in all it will cost me $750 if I skip the pulley and $299 for a dyno tune at vette docs, so $950 all done and tuned. it all depends on what specific parts you buy, if you are willing to buy some used, if you can install it yourself, and what your shops charge for tune and possibly install.
With the money saved you can buy a used ASP pulley which adds another 10hp.
It doesn't have to cost much, here's my costs so far with amassing parts for a cam install:
used F11 cam, $250 shipped - bought from member, low miles perfect working condition.
PRC Spring kit: $250 shipped- bought from member, kit brand new never used
pushrods: Can get these used for around $75 shipped or brand new at TSP for $109 + shipping. I am still tried to find a used set.
LS6 oil pump: $75+shipping brand new at SDCP
LS2 Timing chain: $28+shipping brand new at SDCP
GM gasket kit: around $45 new.
Total cost is around $750 and if I add a used ASP pulley + belt about $875.
Than add in the little extra's like phantom pointed out. if you can do it yourself the only other thing you need to add in is perhaps a few tools and the all important dyno tune which is $250-$450 depending on the shops near you.
If you can't do it yourself than also add $350-600 for install, again depending on your particular shop. I am going to try and install it with the help of a friend, so all in all it will cost me $750 if I skip the pulley and $299 for a dyno tune at vette docs, so $950 all done and tuned. it all depends on what specific parts you buy, if you are willing to buy some used, if you can install it yourself, and what your shops charge for tune and possibly install.
.
You could most certainly do the stock LS6 pump as well ... however, the ported pump gives that extra bit of security with a cam that goes up past that 6,500 mark.
I think it's more of personal opinion, and I'm sure either would be sufficient.
You could most certainly do the stock LS6 pump as well ... however, the ported pump gives that extra bit of security with a cam that goes up past that 6,500 mark.
I think it's more of personal opinion, and I'm sure either would be sufficient.
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (10)
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 5,353
Likes: 2
From: Bossier city,LA barksdale AFB
here is a vid of scoobies 35th le with cheater cam WITH NO TUNE! mods: Long Tubes, with high flow cats, Magnaflow, FAST 90mm, Nick Williams TB, CheaTR Cam, 918's, SLP Lid
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=CAM1-009 night vid but you can hear it cuz of the no tune
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=CAM1-009 night vid but you can hear it cuz of the no tune
Scoobie, you need some serious tuning to your VE tables. Your idle smooths out once your O2 sensors kick in, but your start-up idle will be smooth as glass with a little bit of a tune. Mine used to hunt at start up before I mess with the VE tables. Now it's awesome.
Your idle smooths out once your O2 sensors kick in, but your start-up idle will be smooth as glass with a little bit of a tune. Mine used to hunt at start up before I mess with the VE tables. Now it's awesome.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
From: San Diego, CA
What is it the makes the CheaTR cam so awesome.. how do you get some much power out of it? is it the high lift?
I have the TR224/224 cam and can only make 356whp through shorties.. Will adding a set of AFR heads and getting my car retuned net me another 30-40whp?
I have the TR224/224 cam and can only make 356whp through shorties.. Will adding a set of AFR heads and getting my car retuned net me another 30-40whp?
Well the exhaust is a 230 duration. The intake lift is .600 Those two numbers are pretty big, especially the lift. I guess what makes it special is that they are mis-matched with the big duration small lift, and small duration big lift.
I never thought of .578 lift as small lift, LOL.
The reasons the CheaTR works so well are that it has its valve events in all the right places. Not a lot of overlap, which makes idle very clean. Late enough intake valve closing to make power up to 6800 rpm. Early enough exhaust opening and robust duration to empty out even lowly exhaust manifolds. That's what makes the CheaTR so special.
The reasons the CheaTR works so well are that it has its valve events in all the right places. Not a lot of overlap, which makes idle very clean. Late enough intake valve closing to make power up to 6800 rpm. Early enough exhaust opening and robust duration to empty out even lowly exhaust manifolds. That's what makes the CheaTR so special.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Originally Posted by CrazeD_SS
What is it the makes the CheaTR cam so awesome.. how do you get some much power out of it? is it the high lift?
I have the TR224/224 cam and can only make 356whp through shorties.. Will adding a set of AFR heads and getting my car retuned net me another 30-40whp?
I have the TR224/224 cam and can only make 356whp through shorties.. Will adding a set of AFR heads and getting my car retuned net me another 30-40whp?
You should be making over 400+ easy with proper SCR and quench, I would say close to 420rwhp (that is milled for 11.0:1 with a .040 gasket)
Exhaust will choke a little but It will happen.
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
You mean keeping the TR224 and adding AFR's ?
You should be making over 400+ easy with proper SCR and quench, I would say close to 420rwhp (that is milled for 11.0:1 with a .040 gasket)
Exhaust will choke a little but It will happen.
You should be making over 400+ easy with proper SCR and quench, I would say close to 420rwhp (that is milled for 11.0:1 with a .040 gasket)
Exhaust will choke a little but It will happen.
I'm a noob, what is SCR( and quench)?
thanks
SCR = Static Compression Ratio, i'.e. regular compression ratio that you figure out with volume at top dead center, bottom dead center, chamber volume, ect.
The other compression ratio is "dynamic compression ratio" a theortical number when engine is running. Cam profile, heads, anything that will affect airflow will change it.
Hot Rod i think has a good article on it this month.
Quench is pretty much the area where a flat part of the piston top comes very near a flat part of the head. This squeezes the air/fuel mixture very fast into the open part of the chamber as the piston nears top dead center. More quench area decreases your dynamic compression ratio, and allows you to run more ignition timing, or run lower grade gas without knock.
The other compression ratio is "dynamic compression ratio" a theortical number when engine is running. Cam profile, heads, anything that will affect airflow will change it.
Hot Rod i think has a good article on it this month.
Quench is pretty much the area where a flat part of the piston top comes very near a flat part of the head. This squeezes the air/fuel mixture very fast into the open part of the chamber as the piston nears top dead center. More quench area decreases your dynamic compression ratio, and allows you to run more ignition timing, or run lower grade gas without knock.