10SSPOKE

Ok guys i have been doing alot of research on cams lately, everything from videos, sound clips and posts on this thread. At first all my attention was on the infamous TREX i did tons of searching reading and studying, but now im thinking of something a little smaller and more streetable. I am looking for a target hp of around 400, i have come across a TSP cam that i am kinda interested in but cant seem to find the info i am looking for it is a TSP 231/231 .598/.598 112 LSA . I do realize this is still a very healthy cam and i do plan on doing 4.10 gears, so do any of u guys have any info on this cam or video clips anything, advise is also welcome, once agian i have done my research and this is in no way a "what cam should i get" thread. BTW my car is a 02 SS M6.

Thanks guys

jrp

iTrader: (16)

the 231/237 isnt a bad cam but its an older grind with ground on a lobe with a slower ramp. step up too the 233/239 or MS3 if you want a TSP. however i'd opt for the FMS FM13 over those other grinds.

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

Search Button Director, you sure faster ramps are the way to go? It's a pretty interesting comment concerning the recomendation you give.

Busting your ***** but you will learn something out of it.

Bret

MAC4264

So why do guys think that there is any power difference in a 233/237, 232/234 or what ever falls into the range of 232 to 240 with the same lift. Every company sells a cam in this range and claims more power than someone else. Truth known there is no power difference that justifies why to buy one over the other. Comp Cams sells some of the same grinds as other people out there. They have part numbers for them, no wonderful names for them. A company starts to buy the same grind and give it a name and everyone has to have it (internet hype BS). Find a given duration that you want to work in. Find several cams that have what your looking for. When your torn between which one to run. "Pick the one with the least amount of duration and the most lift." John Lingenfelter
Yes fast ramps make more power hands down.

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

If there was a better understanding of what ramps on a lobe are you guys might have a clue here.....

I do agree with your assumption that internet naming hype is just that.

For a street motor the cam that has the least amount of duration to do the job usually works the best, but not always the case on the drag strip.

Bret

Brandon Boomhauer

iTrader: (10)

exactly, duration numbers posted at .050 are nothing compared to what most cams are.

Look at some of Patrick G's recent posts about different lobe profiles and camshafts that "look" like a traditional split in the .050 range, but are actually a reverse split for the most part.

you can get a 230/234 with the same lift from comp, cam motion, etc, etc, and all will be different because the lobe profiles aren't going to be the same.

Ed Curtis

Glad "you" said it Bret...

I'd get in trouble with the "boyz" if I wrote that!

Ed

MAC4264

I agree that some that some profiles from every company are different at .006, .010 or .002. If you measure all different brands at the same spot. You use the .050 number to compare different companys cams. The advertise number shows how quick the valve opens or how quick it comes off of the seat. Most talk only about duration when it comes to ramps but never speak of lobe lift or total lift which plays a major role in this. The whole idea is to make as small as duration with the most lift without valve float. The term fast ramps maybe misunderstood in that I and some others use it as small .050 numbers followed with large lobe lift numbers. Were some talk that fast ramps are duration at .006 to .050 or .006 to .200. This is also were different cam sizes or base cicles play a role as well. If you make a fast ramp on a large base circle you have better control of it then if it was on a smaller base circle. Some of the same grinds that LS1 motors use will not work on old school cams. Also comparing race grind cams and street cams is know comparsion. The concept is the same. In recent years Pro Stock cams have become smaller duration on the intake with more lift. These cams have come from 285 290 range to 275 278 at .050 on the intake side. The lift has increased past 1" and all of this combine makes for 60 mm camshafts for valve train stablity. Again I maybe using the term wrong and do not have a clue but 275 with .550 intake lobe lift is consider a fast ramp and does require 400 psi of spring pressure at the seat with 1100 across the nose.

MattIROC

iTrader: (19)

I just went with the XER281HR 232/234 .595/.598 112 and it sounds great. I havent had it tuned yet so I cant give you my opinion on how it performs, but I got on it slightly and there was a very noticeable difference already. Later down the road I'll be upgrading to other items (ls6 intake, clutch/flywheel, etc). Went with the 918 springs as well. Its not extremely loud at idle through the hooker exhaust, but it does sound real good. Sounds real good at higher rpms although I havent gone that high yet.

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

Something else also happened when they did that, your on the right track there in what you are looking at but understanding the why it works in that application and others is another thing.

Bret

Ed Curtis

Cylinder head technology has improved a "tick or two"....

Ed

MAC4264

Head technology has improved from the LT1 to the LSX type heads that are avaliable. It all works together as a team I realize this. Were not talking about heads were talking about camshafts. SStrokerAce enlight us on the concept and explain in a very technical manner since you emply that you know. I'm all ears or eyes so lets hear it or see it.

For the person who original posted sorry for getting off your thread topic.

Ed Curtis

Wasn't talking LS1 vs LT1... talkin' P/S

Ed

mcamp001

iTrader: (1)

well, I just installed a CC 230/230/114/591 and hit 398rw with headers/exhaust/UD pully, and a few other miner mods. Lopes a little, you can tell it's in there, but seems pretty drivable.

The cam you mentioned would probably get you there, or very close

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

I could explain it..... but somethings are sacred out there.

J/K I don't really want to get into it right now, NASCAR is on and I'm just a little turned off on people(customers) right now. The last thing I feel like doing at this moment is educating some kid who is a know it all so he can have some more info to confuse himself with. Once I get over this I promise I will try and make it a little clearer. Most likely after the Cup race, F1 race and NHRA later tonight.

Bret

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

MAC,

What I was talking about before was the difference in lobes that have a lot of area and a little lift and a lot of lift and the same or more area. The squared off lobes that are common today in lift rule racing had a lot of characteristics move over on unrestricted cams. In essence they had more squared off lobes and these put so much deflection in the system due to increased valve spring loads needed to control them and accelerations that these rapid changes in lobe profile gave that you have a hard time controlling them and getting any benefit out of the added area because the valve control goes downhill quickly with RPM and the deflection in the system is so bad you loose valve lift in the dynamic conditions. The ramp on your PS example lobe is actually not as aggressive as what was happening before with the lower lift, higher duration squared off lobes. Today the valves are tossed, but the lobes they use also follow a more natural path of valve travel which is easier on parts and allows more RPM and more HP.

Bret

MAC4264

I have seen Stock elimnator cams of .290 lobe lift with 250 degrees at .050 before. The lobes are square. Most of these cams and engines run at 7000 and below. I think you are still missing the idea in that a large lobe lift small duration the lobe is almost a triangle as to speak. In what some of us are saying you get the same dynamics if that is the word to use as you do with the square lobe. Comp cams actually call these square lobes "launcher cams" as they are trying to throw the valve open fast and hold it there.

By the way some of us maybe kids to speak of but I have been around NHRA comp elimnator engines since I was still crapping in dappers.

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

MAC,

If you don't believe me about this talk to the guys who are working with those newer lobes vs. the older ones or your square lobes and see what they say. The launcher cams are much different than the controled loft cams of PS and Nextel Cup. The triangle is a much better shape in terms of the physics of the valvetrain and the resulting control compared to the squared off lobes.

I've been doing this motor thing for 75%+ of my life, you might have been sitting next to Comp Elm motors since you was little but I've been playing with these things since I was in grade school.

Bret