fm14 cam on a ?????
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fm14 cam on a ????? Hey guys I bet I'm going with the fm14 but don't know what to get it on.
I'm looking at a 114, a 112+2, and a 112+4
What would change with each of those and would it fare well in a a4 stalled 3600
I'm looking at a 114, a 112+2, and a 112+4
What would change with each of those and would it fare well in a a4 stalled 3600
moving the LSA effectivly moves the power band up and down the RPM range and also effect peak hp and power under the curve. There are several good writeups in the help topic stickies in this section. I suggest you read those.
you also go by overlap. the more overlap, the more power generated at high RPM, but it kills power at low engine speeds. Basically, the smaller the LSA, the more overlap, and the more power generated under the curve and generally less peak power.Converse is true. as well.
Secondary effects are the sound. More overlap causes more choppyness.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/327734-cam-guide.html
you also go by overlap. the more overlap, the more power generated at high RPM, but it kills power at low engine speeds. Basically, the smaller the LSA, the more overlap, and the more power generated under the curve and generally less peak power.Converse is true. as well.
Secondary effects are the sound. More overlap causes more choppyness.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/327734-cam-guide.html
Last edited by napoleon; Nov 3, 2005 at 03:12 PM.
CAms pretty simply explained by Tony (Nine Ball)
"Cam Basics 101:
Increasing Lobe Seperation Angle moves your powerband higher in the rpm range, and lowers your low/mid rpm torque output. It also helps with emissions testing and makes the idle smoother. "Increasing LSA" means the same thing as "decreasing overlap". So, a 114 LSA cam will idle better, make less emissions, and show peak HP higher in rpm than a 112 LSA cam.
Increasing intake duration will move your powerband up also. It also will hurt midrange torque most of the time. Bigger is NOT better, and alot of people make that mistake. Increasing duration makes the idle rougher also.
Increasing exhaust duration is intended to extend the HP curve a little further on the high rpm. Not always the case. It is meant to help support a restrictive (stock manifolds and cats) exhaust setup. If you have headers, you will most likely see no gains by having more exhaust duration than intake duration. This is known as a "split duration" cam and those tend to idle worse than single pattern cams and cause more misfire SES codes. "single pattern" means cams with the same intake and exhaust duration.
Increasing lift moves the entire power curve upwards if all else is kept equal. More lift means those valves open up further. Has no effect on drivability, but more lift does wear out your valvetrain faster."
"Cam Basics 101:
Increasing Lobe Seperation Angle moves your powerband higher in the rpm range, and lowers your low/mid rpm torque output. It also helps with emissions testing and makes the idle smoother. "Increasing LSA" means the same thing as "decreasing overlap". So, a 114 LSA cam will idle better, make less emissions, and show peak HP higher in rpm than a 112 LSA cam.
Increasing intake duration will move your powerband up also. It also will hurt midrange torque most of the time. Bigger is NOT better, and alot of people make that mistake. Increasing duration makes the idle rougher also.
Increasing exhaust duration is intended to extend the HP curve a little further on the high rpm. Not always the case. It is meant to help support a restrictive (stock manifolds and cats) exhaust setup. If you have headers, you will most likely see no gains by having more exhaust duration than intake duration. This is known as a "split duration" cam and those tend to idle worse than single pattern cams and cause more misfire SES codes. "single pattern" means cams with the same intake and exhaust duration.
Increasing lift moves the entire power curve upwards if all else is kept equal. More lift means those valves open up further. Has no effect on drivability, but more lift does wear out your valvetrain faster."
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From: South Jersey/Moorestown
Ok so basically what you are saying is a 110 will put out more low end torque and mid ranged torque than say a 114
If those basics are correct great.
So in my case with a vig 3600 (which I will be geting) would a 112+2 be good. I want to make my power more midway through the RPM range than higher. Will the +2 give it more vaccuum so that it wouldn't stall. I know the 112's are hard to make word in an automatic but will it idle and drive fine on the 112+2 and not have to idle at say 900-1000
If those basics are correct great.
So in my case with a vig 3600 (which I will be geting) would a 112+2 be good. I want to make my power more midway through the RPM range than higher. Will the +2 give it more vaccuum so that it wouldn't stall. I know the 112's are hard to make word in an automatic but will it idle and drive fine on the 112+2 and not have to idle at say 900-1000
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Verdad Gallardo Yes it will be great. You won't see any difference in idle or driveability at all between the +2 and +4. My roomate has the F11 on a +2, mine is on a +4, both cars idle and drive identically.
This is my car (F11 112+4). Believe it or not, I've heard them in several cars, and the F14's idle is not that different from this, just slightly choppier.
http://www.lsuxblake.com/vidcam.avi
http://www.lsuxblake.com/vids%20001.avi
This is my car (F11 112+4). Believe it or not, I've heard them in several cars, and the F14's idle is not that different from this, just slightly choppier.
http://www.lsuxblake.com/vidcam.avi
http://www.lsuxblake.com/vids%20001.avi
[I]Yes it will be great. You won't see any difference in idle or driveability at all between the +2 and +4. My roomate has the F11 on a +2, mine is on a +4, both cars idle and drive identically.[I]
If there is no difference in idle and driveablility between the 112+2 and the 112+4, then what is the difference?
I was wondering which would be better for a M6 car?
Thanks
If there is no difference in idle and driveablility between the 112+2 and the 112+4, then what is the difference?
I was wondering which would be better for a M6 car?
Thanks
The +2 and +4 are degrees of advance ground into the cam. They lower your powerband, give you more low and mid power, while taking just a few of your peak HP. I'd definitely recommend the +4 with the F14 to keep your powerband at a very street friendly level. And just to restate, no effect on idle.
LSUxBlake, so basically the more degrees in advance that are ground into a cam, the more power and torque it would make under the curve, right? And would loose a couple at peak rpms...
TIA
TIA
Originally Posted by STL2SLO
LSUxBlake, so basically the more degrees in advance that are ground into a cam, the more power and torque it would make under the curve, right? And would loose a couple at peak rpms...
TIA
TIA
I don't really understand what you mean by overcammed. I don't think you can overcam these motors until the valves are hitting the pistons, as even the largest cams that fit under stock heads are still showing power increases over smaller cams, that is, the power numbers never hit a wall.
If you're referring to low and midrange power, yes, a smaller cam may make better numbers there (to an extent), but its all about what you want really. The FMS cams with the 4 degree advance ground in are very good about making midrange while pulling hard all the way to some nice peak #'s. I dug up the first 2 dyno graphs I could to compare, best I could find as far as cars with similar mods....
224 112
FM14 112+4
The F14 looks great to me, look at TQ @ 3000 rpm. It even peaks in the same spot as the 224 if not earlier.
If you're referring to low and midrange power, yes, a smaller cam may make better numbers there (to an extent), but its all about what you want really. The FMS cams with the 4 degree advance ground in are very good about making midrange while pulling hard all the way to some nice peak #'s. I dug up the first 2 dyno graphs I could to compare, best I could find as far as cars with similar mods....
224 112
FM14 112+4
The F14 looks great to me, look at TQ @ 3000 rpm. It even peaks in the same spot as the 224 if not earlier.
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From: BFE
There is a zillion way to make equal or more HP's with smaller cams without reving a stock block to the moon.
Overcammed is when your cam has exceeded your motor flow potential.
We have been over this since the beginning of this site.
There is no best of both worlds.
Just look at your graphs and see that the 224 will own the FM 14 under the curve.
Yes big cams make more power, but in a cam only, that is a fraction of what that cam can make in a properly designed combo.
Overcammed is when your cam has exceeded your motor flow potential.
We have been over this since the beginning of this site.
There is no best of both worlds.
Just look at your graphs and see that the 224 will own the FM 14 under the curve.
Yes big cams make more power, but in a cam only, that is a fraction of what that cam can make in a properly designed combo.
Maybe I'm crazy, I don't see the 224 owning the F14 under the curve. It makes more torque all the way across, makes more HP all the way across, makes more peak HP. The F14 appears to peak at 6175 while the 224 peaks at 6250-6300 (hard to tell from pic), so revving the bottom end up high is not an issue. This appears to be the best of both worlds to me, but that's just my opinion.
Last edited by LSUxBlake; Nov 4, 2005 at 12:53 AM.
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From: BFE
Here is one clearer exemple, just to illustrate what I'm talking about.
I'm just saying that tweaking the setup with stock heads can yield better results with smaller cams.
By tweaking, I mean degreeing, tuning, raising compression, tightening quench etc..
Then you'll have a relatively well mannered cam, fuel efficient and that puts out 400/400.
I'm just saying that tweaking the setup with stock heads can yield better results with smaller cams.
By tweaking, I mean degreeing, tuning, raising compression, tightening quench etc..
Then you'll have a relatively well mannered cam, fuel efficient and that puts out 400/400.
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In your one graph I saw the 224 put out 377 in the cam only while the fm14 put out 400+. Now I was talking to a few people earlier and they said they have seen the fm14 peak at 427 in a cam only car. IMO I don't see how cam for cam the 224 can own the fm14. Of course with a lot of tuning a timing and everything you can get the 224 to the 400/400 range but why wouldn't I just want to drop the cam in, get a streetable tune, and then be set for 400 right then and there. I like the fm14 power numbers, and I also like the idle. FM14 for the win. But thanks guys to both of you. You both helped me a great deal
