treyZ28

no offense but uhhh.... please tell me you dont see the flaw in logic here.

jermzz

iTrader: (18)

It had a built 383 with about 450 to the wheels just like my ls1..... and a built 700r4..... whats the flaw?

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

Spoken like a true Mopar person, get a life.........

Every August here in Columbus OH, there is the Mopar Nats at National Trail Raceway, boy does that event bring in some interesting people.......

Most Mopar people are rude like that...

magius231

iTrader: (8)

noones knocking the tried and true SBC, but your acting like theres nothing special about the LS1 and in fact its the most advanced small block V8 to come out of GM in years. Technology wise its light years ahead of the standard SBC and the heads it comes with just proves the point. Its not like SBC's suck or anything, thats not the point becuase they don't, but the LS1 just provides a better all around package for the $$. This coming from a person who has owned a lot of motors...old school 350's, Olds V8's, 5.0 Mustangs, 4.6 Mustangs, LT1's, LS1's...and a host of other unmentionables.

And last I checked, it costs big $$$ to retrofit the kind of FI it would take to make 550rwhp onto an older SBC unless your a FI/tuning/wiring wiz. Granted its been a while since I even checked on this...and no I don't want to hear about some McFuelInjection setup that you can pull off of XX car and somehow magically mate it to your SBC with almost no effort

treyZ28

look into it again
machine shop to tap 8 holes. misc FI stuff (injectors, fuel rail blanks, etc) and megasquirt. :shrug: not thousands of dollars, Most EFI sensors control emissions related stuff. controlling fuel isn't rocket science. check out megasquirt. its cool.

abot the "special" LS1. The only thing "special" is that it comes from the factory with bad *** heads. Nothing you can pick up or even do better with from aftermarket on an sbc :shrug:.

FastKat

iTrader: (10)

I'll tell ya what... I have a TON of respect for you guys that work on your cars without a lift. I enjoy working on my car, but probably wouldn't if my parents' shop didn't have a lift in it. Some jobs aren't bad at all with the car on the ground, but the minute you start talking about suspension and drivetrain... man you can't beat a lift with a baseball bat!

treyZ28

no lift is a pita. especially for transmissions. You know how much is SUCKS removing a full size drivetrain (4L60 + transfer case) without a lift. especially when the bellhousing starts over the K member and the T-case goes over a cross member that isn't removeable!

No matter what anyone tells you: DO NOT hydrolock your engine at college- especially durring finals week when college is 750 miles from home!

66deuce

iTrader: (1)

actually,it's more than just the heads.yes,the heads are the main reason the LS1 makes the power it does,but there are a few other things that are better than the old SBC:

better rod/stroke ratio.less side loading on the cylinder walls.

6 bolt mains.,stronger connecting rods.try spinning a stock SBC as high as some of these guys spin their LS1s on a regular basis.trust me,the SBC won't last as long.

larger diameter cam.ask the mopar guys about the benefits of this.

plus numerous changes to reduce friction and vibration.

no,there's nothing magic about the ls1,just lessons learned from 50+ years of SBC production.if GM could have reached it's goals for power and economy by just changing the heads instead of starting with a clean sheet of paper,they would have.it would have cost them a lot less money.

66deuce

iTrader: (1)

last time i checked,the flow numbers for the brodix 220cc heads weren't a whole lot better than the STOCK LS6 heads,when looking at the flow numbers across the whole lift range,not just peak.and for about 2100.00,the GMPP CNC ported head will walk all over the brodix head.

treyZ28

the broadix head comes with a lot of crap- like an intake manifold.

like i said, it was a quick walk through summit. genIII is NOT where the bang for the buck is, sorry

treyZ28

yeah. but thats not exactly a show stopper :p. Its not like the LS1 is using 8'' rods. you can easily get a 6'' rod in a 350. I had 6'' in my 383 so 6.25 should fit no problem.

its 6 bolt because its an aluminum block. unless i'm mistaken, the iron block is 4 bolts. Regular small blocks rev as high as you want to bud. Crankwalk certainly isn't the limiting factor.

i dont know much about that, but i do know the lifters are interchangable between LS1 and LT1. Is it to reduce cam torquing?
really, the best thing id say is what you missed. symetrical ports. The LS1 is certainly better- just not in bang for the buck. Thats all i'm saying. A carbed 350 is going to be cheaper bang for the buck. Thats also just about all its got.
with 2 failed attemps, gas milage, emissions and weight a concern- along with actual mass due to expense- it was time for a change.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Actually, 500rwhp is very streetable in an LS1, especially with 400+cid and a SD tune. Lug around in 6th at 900rpm like it's nothing without stalling or bucking is what I'd call streetable, especially with a 250 duration cam.

Even my 383 with a 250/257 hyd cam that pulls to about 7200rpm with a 4000 stall is so streetable that I daily drive it as much as my Titan. Gas mileage isn't great cuz of the stall or the 3.90 rearend, but it does well around town in such a light car.

FastKat

iTrader: (10)

just want to point something out... GenIII stuff is getting cheaper every day. I have bought and sold a handfull of salvage vehicles with LS1's over the last year looking for "the right one" for my project. The price of the engines is coming down.... I know Eagle forged cranks have fell A LOT in the last year...

If the LS1 isn't more bang for the buck right now, it's only going to be a short while before it is.

treyZ28

i wouldn't disagree with that.

66deuce

iTrader: (1)

can't disagree with that,lol.i don't want to add up all the money i've spent on mine over the past couple of years

66deuce

iTrader: (1)

as far as the rods,what i meant was what came from the factory.and you can rev a SBC as high as you want,but your looking at aftermarket parts to equal or better the rpm potential of the LS1 from the factory.and i don't think they had to put 6 bolts in the mains because the block is aluminum,it's just engineered that way for more strength.and yes,if you want bang for your buck,then the SBC is still the way to go.especially with the increased demand for the GEN III stuff,the prices will continue to go down for SBC parts.and i know about the symetrical ports in the heads,lol.

treyZ28

heh, i never said the SBC was better from the factory. thats just silly. They generally sucked from the factory

66deuce

iTrader: (1)

when the SBC first came out in 55,it was actually considered to be a leap forward in technology,much as the GEN III is today.even though the first year motor didn't have an oil filter in the block,if i remember right

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Anyone notice that the person who started this thread is no where to be found?then this "trey" person comes on here and its like him vs a dozen people,he doesnt own an Fbody he owns a truck with a LQ9 with a catback and a tune get a Fbody with an LS1 or LS2 in it and drive it for awhile,then throw on a cam and watch the car pull in 4th now like it did in 3rd b4 the cam swap,and thats not even with a large cam.Then ull realize the potential of the LS1.End of story.Theres no point in trying to keep arguing with him when all hes got is prices and 1 set of Flow numbers.End it already.

treyZ28

"these cars" was taken to be modern cars. I highly doubt he has a problem with LS1's alone. I've only owned 2 4th gens and neither has exactly been stock. An LQ9 is basically a cast iron LS engine anway.

Sorry if an engine swap, transmissions swap and minor bolt ons arn't enough for you. But dont give me anyshit. A quick run through of your posts shows that Erik is building your engine- which is fine, but it certainly doesn't give you "talk down rights." Anyone can sign a credit card bill.

Not that any of the above matters, I'm saying SBC's are better bang for the buck and yes they are easier to work on. You dont need to own any car to see the obvous there. And before you go off again, I've worked on my share of "high output" modern engines and some of my closest friends are pretty big powertrain geeks. This whole thing isnt exactly new to me.

Lastly, from a logical point of view you have a major flaw in your reasoning. You attack the speaker, not their argument. But hey, you're the one on desktop dyno, why dont you tell me how things work.