Dart Head ISSUE FIXED
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 51
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Dart Head ISSUE FIXED First off I want to thank
Bob from Precision Motorsports of Florida http://www.precisionporting.com/
Arvil & Chris Fron Xtreme Hp http://www.xhpsolutions.com/
orginal thread DART HEAD ISSUES
We pulled the valve-train again today for the 3rd time. Started putting a set of Jessel rocker's supplied By Bob(PMS). After clearancing the Jesel rocker guide Chris(XHP) placed the rocker guide on the heads and it was not sitting Flat. We statrted inspecting the tray where the guide sits.Below you will find a picture of what we found.
Someone missed some deburring at dart after the initial machine work was done. This explains all issues we have been having. Chris trimmed the head to remove the excess material. The jesel rockers bolted up and looks like all is well.We will pull the valve cover after a few days. I have spent quite a bit cash getting this sorted out. I had a conversation with John from dart today and they are making some changes to the CNC process to clearance the valve cover bosses to make Comp and Jesel shaft rockers bolt right on.
Thanks to Chris for giving them the info needed to make the changes.
John and I will be talking next week to update him on how the heads are
doing.
Thanks to all of you
Brian
full size pic http://hhdtexas.com/cf/burr.jpg
Bob from Precision Motorsports of Florida http://www.precisionporting.com/
Arvil & Chris Fron Xtreme Hp http://www.xhpsolutions.com/
orginal thread DART HEAD ISSUES
We pulled the valve-train again today for the 3rd time. Started putting a set of Jessel rocker's supplied By Bob(PMS). After clearancing the Jesel rocker guide Chris(XHP) placed the rocker guide on the heads and it was not sitting Flat. We statrted inspecting the tray where the guide sits.Below you will find a picture of what we found.
Someone missed some deburring at dart after the initial machine work was done. This explains all issues we have been having. Chris trimmed the head to remove the excess material. The jesel rockers bolted up and looks like all is well.We will pull the valve cover after a few days. I have spent quite a bit cash getting this sorted out. I had a conversation with John from dart today and they are making some changes to the CNC process to clearance the valve cover bosses to make Comp and Jesel shaft rockers bolt right on.
Thanks to Chris for giving them the info needed to make the changes.
John and I will be talking next week to update him on how the heads are
doing.
Thanks to all of you
Brian
full size pic http://hhdtexas.com/cf/burr.jpg
Last edited by NOT-MEE; Mar 25, 2006 at 07:22 AM.
Did Dart state that whether or not this was an isolated incident,or should we examine all of them. I installed a set a few weeks ago, and havn't had any issues, but I've only got about 200 miles onthem since the install.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by BOTTLE ROCKET
Did Dart state that whether or not this was an isolated incident,or should we examine all of them. I installed a set a few weeks ago, and havn't had any issues, but I've only got about 200 miles onthem since the install.
My heads had those same little burrs on them but I ground them down before I installed the rockers. It was pretty obvious that the stands wouldn't fit without grinding those down.
-Josh
-Josh
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TECH Apprentice
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 339
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That's great you got this thing worked out, but that just plain sucks that these heads were not QC'd better to find this problem before production began. They should send you a check for all the extra money you had to spend troubleshooting their defective heads not to mention the headaches.
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TECH Resident
Joined: Oct 2005
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If you participate in automotive performance as a hobby you should be willing/required to accept some personal responsibility for the parts you install. There really is no such thing as a bolt on part. Something always needs to be tweaked. In this case the end part may get a bit of an improvement and that's good for everybody. With all of the eyes that have been on these heads though it is unfortunate that it wasn't caught at the time of installation.
Thanks for the update and being the guinea pig 
.Yes you almost have to expect something like this in a first run of a "hot product" in the automotive world but it doesn't make it acceptable.I'm glad you had the patience to fix this problem and keep us informed at the same time.I'm probably one of many people undecided on whether or not to get these heads .But this issue seems easy to fix so it hasn't changed my mind yet.
.Yes you almost have to expect something like this in a first run of a "hot product" in the automotive world but it doesn't make it acceptable.I'm glad you had the patience to fix this problem and keep us informed at the same time.I'm probably one of many people undecided on whether or not to get these heads .But this issue seems easy to fix so it hasn't changed my mind yet. 
Good find but I would think someone would have noticed that after the first time the rockers loosened up..
Anyhow, I pulled a valve cover and rocker stand off mine just to look a few minutes ago. I know I looked to make sure the rocker bolt holes were centered in the stands when I first put them on since they looked close to that valve cover bolt boss. I didnt notice any 'burrs' that looked like yours and mine doesnt have them.
Simple solution to the problem is to run the cutter closer to the valve cover bolt boss, hopefully dart will do that since even though mine has no burrs you can plainly see that the rail is touching the boss, .020" more there and rockers wouldnt tighten down properly, .020" the other way and there would be plenty of room.
Good catch, shame it took so long to find something simple, its pretty obvious that the rocker stands on yours were not sitting flat the way the heads are machined..
Anyhow, I pulled a valve cover and rocker stand off mine just to look a few minutes ago. I know I looked to make sure the rocker bolt holes were centered in the stands when I first put them on since they looked close to that valve cover bolt boss. I didnt notice any 'burrs' that looked like yours and mine doesnt have them.
Simple solution to the problem is to run the cutter closer to the valve cover bolt boss, hopefully dart will do that since even though mine has no burrs you can plainly see that the rail is touching the boss, .020" more there and rockers wouldnt tighten down properly, .020" the other way and there would be plenty of room.
Good catch, shame it took so long to find something simple, its pretty obvious that the rocker stands on yours were not sitting flat the way the heads are machined..
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 51
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This fix was not that difficult but paying someone to set up the valve train 3x and then fix the problem was. Thank God I had some extra cash in the bank that was for my new motor. Now the motor is on the back burner for a few more mos. John from Dart has expressed they are willing to work something out because of the issue. If that does in fact happens their customer service in my eyes will be restored. Things happen in the performance world customer service is a must.
it may look like that but its not raised up at all, been doing this stuff for a while and trust me its as flat as board. Plus all my rockers were still torqued to spec..
I do this stuff myself and it took a grand total of 25 minutes to check and reinstall both sides, including cleaning/resealing the rocker bolts..
I do this stuff myself and it took a grand total of 25 minutes to check and reinstall both sides, including cleaning/resealing the rocker bolts..
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 51
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Originally Posted by kp
it may look like that but its not raised up at all, been doing this stuff for a while and trust me its as flat as board. Plus all my rockers were still torqued to spec..
I do this stuff myself and it took a grand total of 25 minutes to check and reinstall both sides, including cleaning/resealing the rocker bolts..
I do this stuff myself and it took a grand total of 25 minutes to check and reinstall both sides, including cleaning/resealing the rocker bolts..
Just that almost looks like the burr we had.
I can build a motor but I am not the greatest when it comes to valvetrain setup so I have paid a shop to do the work.
If it had a burr or wasnt finished correctly believe me I would be the first to say so, I paid for these just like you did and if there is a problem it needs to be fixed. I looked over everything pretty good when I first put it together but I still took it apart today to look anyhow.
There is obviously a problem with your heads and I would be a little pissed if I was paying someone to take it apart but OTOH someone put valves and springs in those heads (not Dart) and ground the tabs off the stock rocker rail (and I assume test fitted everything) and that is really something that should have been caught after the first time it screwed up. But no one is perfect and I can see missing something like that, heck I looked at mine just to see if I missed it and the car has been running great
Good luck with it and glad you found the problem..
There is obviously a problem with your heads and I would be a little pissed if I was paying someone to take it apart but OTOH someone put valves and springs in those heads (not Dart) and ground the tabs off the stock rocker rail (and I assume test fitted everything) and that is really something that should have been caught after the first time it screwed up. But no one is perfect and I can see missing something like that, heck I looked at mine just to see if I missed it and the car has been running great
Good luck with it and glad you found the problem.. 
Good to hear things got fixed. I'm a little confused on exactly who this problem affects though. I have a set of Dart 205s on order. I'm using stock rockers. Will this affect me?
Shouldn't affect you, now that you are aware of what to look for.
Good information, I will check mine as well since they are not installed yet. But honestly, I had them completely apart and actually re-worked the valve cover boss so my Crane/VHP valve spring tool would fit and my Crane rocker setup would fit. I don't remember any burrs like you mention.
Thanks for resolving this and letting the community know though.
Good information, I will check mine as well since they are not installed yet. But honestly, I had them completely apart and actually re-worked the valve cover boss so my Crane/VHP valve spring tool would fit and my Crane rocker setup would fit. I don't remember any burrs like you mention.
Thanks for resolving this and letting the community know though.
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 102
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From: Suburbs of Detroit
rocker stand issue We have checked all the parts we have here and the pieces we have kept from all runs we have found no burrs, or un machined areas that will not allow the stands to sit flat, we have a modified stand here and it has been fitting fine. I personally did not see the head so I dont know what is there. As it was mentioned we are going to machine the area where the rocker stand sits about another .040 towards the centerline of the valve cover bolt to allow the Jesel, and Comp cams system to fit on the head with no modifications. One problem is no need for everyone to turn the world into an uproar, it has been inspected inhouse on every head in process and there is no problems, we didnt find one piece that needed to be fixed, we did find some where the boss was wider and we have to make a little more modification to the bottom of the stock rail that the rockers are mounted on, this was easy.
Yes this shouldnt have happened, but as someone else mentioned, there isnt one perfect company when it comes to aftermarket parts, and what sucks even more is several people worked on these, someone had to modify the stock rail and yet nobody noticed there was a fitment issue, so it sounds like we are not the only ones who missed this!!
When we modified our stock bar here we test fitted it right on the head, and since have made more modification to it due to interference on other heads.
If anyone has any problems please email direct to jkeyes@dartheads.com, personally I dont like to see ET, AFR, Canfield, and any one in this industry get publicly smeered all over for something that is isolated and could have also been prevented on the other end as easily as our end.
John
Dart
Yes this shouldnt have happened, but as someone else mentioned, there isnt one perfect company when it comes to aftermarket parts, and what sucks even more is several people worked on these, someone had to modify the stock rail and yet nobody noticed there was a fitment issue, so it sounds like we are not the only ones who missed this!!
When we modified our stock bar here we test fitted it right on the head, and since have made more modification to it due to interference on other heads.
If anyone has any problems please email direct to jkeyes@dartheads.com, personally I dont like to see ET, AFR, Canfield, and any one in this industry get publicly smeered all over for something that is isolated and could have also been prevented on the other end as easily as our end.
John
Dart