Orange Peel

iTrader: (20)

I have a set of PRC Stage 3 Dart 225's, at first with the new LS2 402 I had built, there was smoking at idle, but it seems to have gone away from what I can tell, 700 miles on the setup now. It may have just needed more time.

I will be keeping an eye on my set to see if they burn any more oil over time.

waterbug1999

iTrader: (3)

What causes them to smoke. I mean, obviously oil leaking, but is there a way to check before I slap mine on? I DONT want to have to do this again.

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

Not sure I understand, the oil is on top of the intake valve? What kind of valve seal do you have on the heads?

Galen

iTrader: (3)

I did not disassemble the heads prior to installing them. With duel springs, it is almost impossible to see the seals without removing the springs. I was told by TSP they require the 98 style seals due to the duel spring setup. I was going to change them, but couldn't find any available in my local area and just got tired of the fight. Here is a pic of the oil sitting on top of my intake valve. This is after reapplying thread sealant twice and deleting the entire PCV system.

Here is how much oil we got off one valve using the mighty vac. Some dripped out prior to the picture.

I really don't know what is going on. If it is the seals/guides, they are worse than any I have ever seen. If it is that I just was unable to seal the rocker bolts, then the holes are abviously WAY out of spec. There would be no reason to require more sealant than I used both times. Once again, TSP has been awesome through this trying to help me out and have gone above and beyond trying to fix the situation.

Galen

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

What is interesting in the photo is that it appears the entire intake port is wet, making me think it is not the valve seals. That is a lot of oil. I just can't figure out why the Stage II heads seem to have this issue, and the out of box don't. By the way, the seals that come with the Darts are exactly like the 02 stockers. You can see them on the right in the photo.

Galen

iTrader: (3)

Oil was also all in my intake. That is why I deleted the PCV system. I figure that, at operating temps and conditions, the oil is being vaporized and splashed around, coating everything. I have read about some unported heads smoking more than normal at startup, and even the shopcar at TSP is having these issues with 225s out of the box. If the porting caused any of these problems, then why doesn't everyone who has ported heads have these problems? To me, I feel this is a Dart issue and not the fault of TSP. At this point, I am just happy to be swapping them out to some LS6 style heads that never have these issues.

Galen

P.S. I am supposed to have the 98 style seals due to duel spring clearance.

Randy WS6

iTrader: (69)

What if you have a set of Dart Stage III cnc ported from PRC like me ,on there way from TSP can't vote on this one

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

Without PCV, aren't you pressurizing the block internally?

davered00ss

iTrader: (4)

So where are the #'s from TSP?

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

Randy we won't be building anymore of these ported Darts for customers. Call me Monday & I'll get you the best deal on whatever brand cylinder head you want! We're in a very competitive market & I can tell you we won't sell a product that could have issues like this. We're working to replace every set of smoking cnc ported darts with our LS6 cylinder head.

The worst part is the cnc ported head really flowed well & made good power, but if one person has a problem that's to many for me! The only time we take LS6 heads back is if UPS damages them! I pride myself on our cylinder heads NOT coming back for ANY reason! If we have smoking issues from even one set it's just to many!

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

Galen,

We've checked the clearances on several sets of heads & they all appear to be just fine on guide clearance. What your seeing is exactly what I've seen here. Intake runners covered with oil almost like it's leaking into the port somehow. I thought it might be the smaller oil drains on the Dart castings, but the guys at Dart said they've spent tons of r&d time tweaking those oil drains to make sure it doesn't have a issue.

I can't tell you guys how many nights I've missed sleep just trying to come up with a reason for why this is occuring. We had tons of customers wanting these ported darts & even a magazine story setup, but the most important thing is making a product the customer likes & doesn't have ANY issues with!

Randy WS6

iTrader: (69)

Jason, Im not saying any thing bad about Dart or PRC ,The top of the post was a vote witch is better, I was saying that both are top out the line ,and were you and dart is invoved with my heads. it would be a tie in my vote.

davered00ss

iTrader: (4)

So is the problem with the Dart heads themselves, or just the ported ones?

GFORCE1320

iTrader: (15)

Lets keep this going, I'd rather figure this out BEFORE I install my new engine with my new Dart Stg 2 heads.

Randy WS6

iTrader: (69)

Me to !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Orange Peel

iTrader: (20)

Mine seem to be doing ok, and I really don't want to swap them out, so I will keep an eye out on mine and report back for you guys that have them.

Orange Peel

iTrader: (20)

Well, it looks like my PRC Stage 3 Dart 225's are indeed burning oil, it's not smoking that I can see, but here's a pic of my #8 plug, the plugs have 600 miles on them....







I noticed last night when I get on the gas the oil pressure would go down instead of up for some reason, so I just checked the oil level and it's down about 1-2 quarts, and I just changed the oil about 250 miles ago.

Jason - I will PM you about what I want to do, thanks for taking care of this issue with everyone, VERY stand up thing to do!!

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

Just pulled one of my plugs and the dipstick. My oil is OK and my plug is clean, and I went one heat range cooler too. I noticed you are running the tapered plug rather than the gasketed, will those sit correctly in the combustion chamber?

Also, there was another porting vendor (on another forum) that was working with the Darts as well, has any checked with him to see if he has run into this? Also, has anyone put together a list of casting dates to see if there is any correlation there?

Also, has anyone tried a seal change to see if that solves the problem?

vettenuts

iTrader: (4)

Just tried something for curiousity, I measured the ID of the stock GM seal (02 version) and the Dart seal. The Dart seal as supplied with the head has a smaller ID. Very hard to measure because it is rubber, but I am getting about 0.010" difference between the two.

davered00ss

iTrader: (4)

Someone posted in another thread, that the Dart heads use a 98 valve seal to clear the dual springs.