Lets get down to business
Lets get down to business I have a set of MTI stageII heads that have around 10K on them and all the exhaust valves and some of the intake valves are spent. The stems are worn enough so that you can feel a step in them when you rub your fingers on them.
What do you think caused this.
The valves are Ferrea 2.055 and 1.60.
Are the Manley valves any better or worse
Thanks
Eric
What do you think caused this.
The valves are Ferrea 2.055 and 1.60.
Are the Manley valves any better or worse
Thanks
Eric
Re: Lets get down to business The intakes are part# F6234P and exhaust# F6233P
Im getting new valves are the Manleys any better?
What should the stem to guide clearence be when I get the new valves?
Im getting new valves are the Manleys any better?
What should the stem to guide clearence be when I get the new valves?
Re: Lets get down to business Just so Im not mis-understood I am in no way complaining about the quaility of the heads. The port work is beautiful.
I bought them used for a really good deal and after replacing the valves and a valve job Ill basically have a new set of Stage II heads for substantially less than a new pair.
I just want to make sure it doesnt happen again.
The heads are milled .030 and the previous owner used rocker arm shims with stock length pushrods.
Do you think the shims could have thrown the valve geometry off enough to cause the valves to not be aligned correctly in the guide?
Or could there have been an oiling problem?
Valves that Ive seen like this before (where there is a step you can actually feel when you rub your finger on the line between the stem that is in the guide and the part that is like new because it never goes into the guide) have generally been on high mileage heads.
Maybe the person I bought them off of lied about the mileage but they were bought new in june 2000 so how many miles can be put on in 17 months?
thanks
Eric
Thanks
<img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0">
I bought them used for a really good deal and after replacing the valves and a valve job Ill basically have a new set of Stage II heads for substantially less than a new pair.
I just want to make sure it doesnt happen again.
The heads are milled .030 and the previous owner used rocker arm shims with stock length pushrods.
Do you think the shims could have thrown the valve geometry off enough to cause the valves to not be aligned correctly in the guide?
Or could there have been an oiling problem?
Valves that Ive seen like this before (where there is a step you can actually feel when you rub your finger on the line between the stem that is in the guide and the part that is like new because it never goes into the guide) have generally been on high mileage heads.
Maybe the person I bought them off of lied about the mileage but they were bought new in june 2000 so how many miles can be put on in 17 months?
thanks
Eric
Thanks
<img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0">
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Launching!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
Re: Lets get down to business First let me say that I highly do not recommend changing to a different type valve. The 6000 series Ferrea valve is an outstanding performance street/strip valve. Do you know exactly how much shim was being used under the rockers? If it was more than .030" then the rockers would have too much slack in them and would be hitting the top of the valves too hard.
I recommend you have the guides checked, valve job the heads and lap in a fresh set of 6000 series Ferrea valves. Coat the tops of the valves with oil or assembly lube before re-installing the rockers with a .030" shim underneath.
Good luck!
I recommend you have the guides checked, valve job the heads and lap in a fresh set of 6000 series Ferrea valves. Coat the tops of the valves with oil or assembly lube before re-installing the rockers with a .030" shim underneath.
Good luck!
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Verdad Gallardo Re: Lets get down to business Thanks Alot Jason
The shims were .035 thick
Im going to use shorter pushrods with no shims
What is proper valve to guide clearence for these heads?
Eric
The shims were .035 thick
Im going to use shorter pushrods with no shims
What is proper valve to guide clearence for these heads?
Eric
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
From: HOUSTON
Re: Lets get down to business Using shorter pushrods w/o shims WILL result in excessive noise. All MTI heads are Surface cut .030 unless requested otherwise. All cut heads need rocker shims for proper valvetrain geometry. I know you feel your LS1 is a bit more advanced then an old Ford, but they've been doing it like that for years. The designer of the LS1 head definately had very heavy Ford influences.
Re: Lets get down to business nitropickup:
I dont understand why using shorter pushrods istead of shims will cause excessive valvetrain noise? Does it really matter if you make up the 0.030 by shortening the pushrod vs raising the rocker arm?
Eric
I dont understand why using shorter pushrods istead of shims will cause excessive valvetrain noise? Does it really matter if you make up the 0.030 by shortening the pushrod vs raising the rocker arm?
Eric
TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,207
Likes: 0
From: College Station, Tx
Re: Lets get down to business If a shorter pushrod causes noise because the pushrod is "too short" (to little preload) then shimming the rockers would only exacerbate this problem. (with the same length pushrod).
If the pushrod is to short then you need a longer pushrod; simple as that.
I personally do not think shimming the rockers is a good idea at all, and would do all valvetrain adjustments with pushrod length, and then valve length if more adjustability was required.
Shimming the rockers can also cause increased rocker tip/valve angularity, and this could definitely contribute to worn valvue guides.
As to the problem it sounds like a case of bad geometry (due to whoever installed the setup, not MTI) and/or a case of oil starvation to the heads.
I would also echo "MTI" and suggest you stick with the same type of valves. It sounds like you also need a valve job also (if you replace valves at a minimum they need to be lapped). Though people send this type of work off to any local machine shop typically I would highly suggest you send this to a an experienced head porter (since MTI did your heads they would be a good choice)- the valve job is actually a very critical part of the overall package.
Chris
If the pushrod is to short then you need a longer pushrod; simple as that.
I personally do not think shimming the rockers is a good idea at all, and would do all valvetrain adjustments with pushrod length, and then valve length if more adjustability was required.
Shimming the rockers can also cause increased rocker tip/valve angularity, and this could definitely contribute to worn valvue guides.
As to the problem it sounds like a case of bad geometry (due to whoever installed the setup, not MTI) and/or a case of oil starvation to the heads.
I would also echo "MTI" and suggest you stick with the same type of valves. It sounds like you also need a valve job also (if you replace valves at a minimum they need to be lapped). Though people send this type of work off to any local machine shop typically I would highly suggest you send this to a an experienced head porter (since MTI did your heads they would be a good choice)- the valve job is actually a very critical part of the overall package.
Chris
Re: Lets get down to business I was going to use 7.350" pushrods with the 0.030 milled heads.
Technically (I think?) these pushrods will have 0.020 less preload than stock.
Is this going to be a problem?
Technically (I think?) these pushrods will have 0.020 less preload than stock.
Is this going to be a problem?
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Houston
Re: Lets get down to business [quote]As to the problem it sounds like a case of bad geometry (due to whoever installed the setup, not MTI <img src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> ) and/or a case of oil starvation to the heads. <hr></blockquote>The setup was completely of MTI's design, they gave me the shims w/the heads as well as the pushrods. Oil starvation is a possiblity since I had a major oil consumption problem, I had to check the oil level once a week but was usually on top of it. And I didn't lie to you about the mileage Eric. The heads went on at 26k and the car was flooded w/30.5k, less than 5k.
Re: Lets get down to business Hi Lawrence:
I in no way was inferring that you lied to me.
Just as I told you on the phone I am very happy with the deal.
Just so everyone knows!!!
Lawrence aka laZy is a great guy to business with.
I did an fairly high dollar deal with him from 2000 miles away and he was very honest and helpful.
As stated earlier in the post He gave me a good enough deal so that even after I put the new valves and get a valve job I will basically have a new set of heads for substantially less than a new set.
You must have had a oiling and or a geometry problem because almost all valve stems are worn really bad.
I just want to make sure It gets fixed and does not happen to me when I put them on my car.
Thanks
Eric
<img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
I in no way was inferring that you lied to me.
Just as I told you on the phone I am very happy with the deal.
Just so everyone knows!!!
Lawrence aka laZy is a great guy to business with.
I did an fairly high dollar deal with him from 2000 miles away and he was very honest and helpful.
As stated earlier in the post He gave me a good enough deal so that even after I put the new valves and get a valve job I will basically have a new set of heads for substantially less than a new set.
You must have had a oiling and or a geometry problem because almost all valve stems are worn really bad.
I just want to make sure It gets fixed and does not happen to me when I put them on my car.
Thanks
Eric
<img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Houston
Re: Lets get down to business [quote]Originally posted by ws6rufus:
<strong>
Maybe the person I bought them off of lied about the mileage
I in no way was inferring that you lied to me.
( <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0"> )
You must have had a oiling and or a geometry problem because almost all valve stems are worn really bad.
I just want to make sure It gets fixed and does not happen to me when I put them on my car.
Thanks
Eric
<img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>I figured that MTI knew what they were doing with the shims and pushrod length, but I guess I was wrong. Oh well, live and learn. I was in the process of trying to remedy the oil problem when I lost the car, unfortunately I didn't have the chance to figure out what was causing it. Would have been interesting to known so such things could be prevented in the future. It was my guess though that oil was seeping past the rocker arm bolts into the intake runners.
Lawrence
[ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: laZy ]</p>
<strong>
Maybe the person I bought them off of lied about the mileage
I in no way was inferring that you lied to me.
( <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0"> )
You must have had a oiling and or a geometry problem because almost all valve stems are worn really bad.
I just want to make sure It gets fixed and does not happen to me when I put them on my car.
Thanks
Eric
<img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>I figured that MTI knew what they were doing with the shims and pushrod length, but I guess I was wrong. Oh well, live and learn. I was in the process of trying to remedy the oil problem when I lost the car, unfortunately I didn't have the chance to figure out what was causing it. Would have been interesting to known so such things could be prevented in the future. It was my guess though that oil was seeping past the rocker arm bolts into the intake runners.
Lawrence
[ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: laZy ]</p>
FormerVendor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,065
Likes: 6
From: Houston, Tx.
Re: Lets get down to business Chris B.,
""I personally do not think shimming the rockers is a good idea at all, and would do all valvetrain adjustments with pushrod length, and then valve length if more adjustability was required.
Shimming the rockers can also cause increased rocker tip/valve angularity, and this could definitely contribute to worn valvue guides.""
Why do you think this?
""I personally do not think shimming the rockers is a good idea at all, and would do all valvetrain adjustments with pushrod length, and then valve length if more adjustability was required.
Shimming the rockers can also cause increased rocker tip/valve angularity, and this could definitely contribute to worn valvue guides.""
Why do you think this?
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
From: cookeville, tn
Re: Lets get down to business ttt
So what was the conclusion on this??? .030 heads....go with shorter rods or shims???
I was under the impression that the shorter rods were the way to go.
So what was the conclusion on this??? .030 heads....go with shorter rods or shims???
I was under the impression that the shorter rods were the way to go.
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
From: jawja
Re: Lets get down to business [quote] It was my guess though that oil was seeping past the rocker arm bolts into the intake runners.
Lawrence
<hr></blockquote>Thats good stuff. I never thought about that,and it makes alot of sense. Pretty sure Ill be pulling the rocker bolts out and putting some sealer on them. Thanks
Lawrence
<hr></blockquote>Thats good stuff. I never thought about that,and it makes alot of sense. Pretty sure Ill be pulling the rocker bolts out and putting some sealer on them. Thanks
