Results with ETP heads.
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Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
I have helped dozens of people with ported FAST set-up's....every one of them was thrilled with the results (20-25 RWHP gains are the norm). In the last three years Ive dyno tested over a half dozen stockers with positive results (not as much as a ported unit but solid gains none the less).
Seems to me there must have been a problem with the set-up....serious port mis-match, airleak, something that would cause the results you described.
Six months ago we tested a stock 6.0 litre with AFR 205 heads (364 CID) with one of my ported intakes and it was worth 32 HP and 20+ ft/lbs over a stock LS2 intake (a ridiculous gain for a manifold swap)....back to back on a deadly repeatable SF902 engine dyno. The pulls were literally 30 minutes apart (the time it took us to swap the intake).
My experience shows the LS2 to be the weakest intake (similiar to an LS1 intake) and that mimics other independent testing as well....dont have time now but the data is available if someone wants to do a search. For me, the FAST has worked EVERY time, either ported or unported, stock or modified heads no matter who's logo is on the end.
I would try to look into what may be wrong with your set-up when a FAST is bolted in front of it....port locations would be my guess but I dont understand why your having issues others havent had. I would also like to see those low results duplicated again assuming the port alignment wasnt far off....backing the original data would be another interesting test IMO.
Tony M.
Seems to me there must have been a problem with the set-up....serious port mis-match, airleak, something that would cause the results you described.
Six months ago we tested a stock 6.0 litre with AFR 205 heads (364 CID) with one of my ported intakes and it was worth 32 HP and 20+ ft/lbs over a stock LS2 intake (a ridiculous gain for a manifold swap)....back to back on a deadly repeatable SF902 engine dyno. The pulls were literally 30 minutes apart (the time it took us to swap the intake).
My experience shows the LS2 to be the weakest intake (similiar to an LS1 intake) and that mimics other independent testing as well....dont have time now but the data is available if someone wants to do a search. For me, the FAST has worked EVERY time, either ported or unported, stock or modified heads no matter who's logo is on the end.
I would try to look into what may be wrong with your set-up when a FAST is bolted in front of it....port locations would be my guess but I dont understand why your having issues others havent had. I would also like to see those low results duplicated again assuming the port alignment wasnt far off....backing the original data would be another interesting test IMO.
Tony M.
I have seen a plethora of different cams all make more power with the FAST 90mm intake. Anywhere from low duration (224/228 110) to high duration (233/239 112 or 114) and those are very different cam grinds.
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Originally Posted by BlackHawk T/A
I have seen a plethora of different cams all make more power with the FAST 90mm intake. Anywhere from low duration (224/228 110) to high duration (233/239 112 or 114) and those are very different cam grinds.
Well then you are one in a thousand on this site, unless it is directly related to a sealing problem or port matching problem with ETP heads. I'd really hope you can find the problem, because the intake does indeed flow quite a bit more than the LS1, LS2, or LS6.
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Originally Posted by BlackHawk T/A
Well then you are one in a thousand on this site, unless it is directly related to a sealing problem or port matching problem with ETP heads. I'd really hope you can find the problem, because the intake does indeed flow quite a bit more than the LS1, LS2, or LS6.
My current project has had great success with the FAST 90mm intake with a ported LS2 90 mm TB for a 99 vette with 93,000 miles on it. I am useing a set of RHS 225cc int. runner's on this stock bottom end. The cam is 302 adv. int/exh and 234 @ .050 on a 112*+4* with .578 lift with 1.7 ratio shaft mount rocker's. We have not finished tuning the ECM yet because the dyno is broken right now. We have so far made 444.97 SAE corrected rwhp and 405.74 rwtq with only about half of the tuning completed. So far the max timing being used is only 27* at peak hp. As of yet we have not even touched the intake manifold yet for port work. The cam was installed 4* advanced due to the fact that this is a pretty big cam and was not designed around the stock LS1, but after a twin turbo LS2. Right now after the head swap we have 240 cranking PSI after 4 revolution's of the motor and had 205 PSI after a 30 min leak down test. The valves have not fully seated yet and we could hear pressure leaking by the intake valve just a little bit with the intake off. All dyno number's are from a DynoJet 248 series dyno.
Last edited by 1997bird; Nov 11, 2006 at 02:13 PM. Reason: Forgotten info
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Originally Posted by 1997bird
My current project has had great success with the FAST 90mm intake with a ported LS2 90 mm TB for a 99 vette with 93,000 miles on it. I am useing a set of RHS 225cc int. runner's on this stock bottom end. The cam is 302 adv. int/exh and 234 @ .050 on a 112*+4* with .578 lift with 1.7 ratio shaft mount rocker's. We have not finished tuning the ECM yet because the dyno is broken right now. We have so far made 444.97 SAE corrected rwhp and 405.74 rwtq with only about half of the tuning completed. So far the max timing being used is only 27* at peak hp. As of yet we have not even touched the intake manifold yet for port work. The cam was installed 4* advanced due to the fact that this is a pretty big cam and was not designed around the stock LS1, but after a twin turbo LS2. Right now after the head swap we have 240 cranking PSI after 4 revolution's of the motor and had 205 PSI after a 30 min leak down test. The valves have not fully seated yet and we could hear pressure leaking by the intake valve just a little bit with the intake off. All dyno number's are from a DynoJet 248 series dyno.
This combo was tested with the stock water pump, AC ready to run, and alternator installed. The only mod on the belt system's was a 10% underdrive ATI harmonic balancer. This combo is also cripled a little bit by the Vroom ram air intake system and the way that it is designed. It has a low speed ram effect and then at higher speed it has an additional channnel that helps add air to the motor.
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My lil stock bottom end 346 with a set of ported 241 factory heads seems to like the ported Fast 90/90 just fine. With a little 224/228 cam I put down 452rwhp and 408rwtq and that was threw a 12 bolt rear with 4.30 gears and a heavy Denny's nitrous reeady driveshaft. Imagine what it would have put down with a stock rear with 3.42 gears and stock driveshaft. This car has gone 11.2 with 430rwhp & 378rwtq and hasn't made a NA pass since the retune. So if I am to beleive all the hype of how all aftermarket heads make more power how much power will I pick up? It's a roll of the dice , I could gain ........I could loose. For what I would spend on a set of heads,new cam,and retune I don't know if the money will be worth the E.T
But in short.....A ported 90 Fast works
But in short.....A ported 90 Fast works
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Originally Posted by 02SOMWS6
My lil stock bottom end 346 with a set of ported 241 factory heads seems to like the ported Fast 90/90 just fine. With a little 224/228 cam I put down 452rwhp and 408rwtq and that was threw a 12 bolt rear with 4.30 gears and a heavy Denny's nitrous reeady driveshaft. Imagine what it would have put down with a stock rear with 3.42 gears and stock driveshaft. This car has gone 11.2 with 430rwhp & 378rwtq and hasn't made a NA pass since the retune. So if I am to beleive all the hype of how all aftermarket heads make more power how much power will I pick up? It's a roll of the dice , I could gain ........I could loose. For what I would spend on a set of heads,new cam,and retune I don't know if the money will be worth the E.T
But in short.....A ported 90 Fast works
But in short.....A ported 90 Fast works
Originally Posted by CollinsAutomotive
The intake may or may not work. It really depends on the runners input and output impedence ralative to wave action in the intake manifold Varying runner tappers may interact with different port shapes in either a positive or negative manner.Basically the Cam will affect any and all Waveaction in the manifold. The Cams that we generally see used do not produce the type of wave action that works with the FAST impedences but again this is dependent on a multitude of factors. To make the Blanket statement that the FAST intake will always increase HP and TQ is ignorant.There are a ton of factors in play.
Originally Posted by CollinsAutomotive
The intake may or may not work. It really depends on the runners input and output impedence ralative to wave action in the intake manifold Varying runner tappers may interact with different port shapes in either a positive or negative manner.Basically the Cam will affect any and all Waveaction in the manifold. The Cams that we generally see used do not produce the type of wave action that works with the FAST impedences but again this is dependent on a multitude of factors. To make the Blanket statement that the FAST intake will always increase HP and TQ is ignorant.There are a ton of factors in play.
Not questioning you just seriously wondering.
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Originally Posted by 02sierraz71_5.3
can you give us an example of the cams that dont work with the fast?
Not questioning you just seriously wondering.
Not questioning you just seriously wondering.
When I was heads/cam with an LS6 cam I put down 411rwhp/393rwtq with a fast set up. We will see when I dyno my new setup what my power is, but I bet its good. My heads flow 340cfm @ .625. I tell you what I will dyno it with an LS6"which out flows the LS2" and see where we are at.
Thomas
edit: my new cam is a 240, 244, .615, .625 on a 115lsa
Thomas
edit: my new cam is a 240, 244, .615, .625 on a 115lsa
Last edited by 1LSWON; Nov 13, 2006 at 11:14 AM.
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Originally Posted by 1LSWON
When I was heads/cam with an LS6 cam I put down 411rwhp/393rwtq with a fast set up. We will see when I dyno my new setup what my power is, but I bet its good. My heads flow 340cfm @ .600. I tell you what I will dyno it with an LS6"which out flows the LS2" and see where we are at.
Thomas
edit: my new cam is a 240, 244, .615, .625 on a 115lsa
Thomas
edit: my new cam is a 240, 244, .615, .625 on a 115lsa
I am gonna take a stab here and say that you will be dissapointed in the results.
I just have no clue man. Chris Powell, my best friend has an 8sec nitrous ls1 with a huge cam. His cam is .260, .266, .712, .735 on a 114lsa. I just talked to him he said, "There is no way unless your fast has a problem." Flow is flow and the fast out flows the LS2, LS1, LS6 hands down. I might be able to see them makeing the same power, but not loseing power with a fast.
Thomas
Thomas
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Originally Posted by 1LSWON
I just have no clue man. Chris Powell, my best friend has an 8sec nitrous ls1 with a huge cam. His cam is .260, .266, .712, .735 on a 114lsa. I just talked to him he said, "There is no way unless your fast has a problem." Flow is flow and the fast out flows the LS2, LS1, LS6 hands down. I might be able to see them makeing the same power, but not loseing power with a fast.
Thomas
Thomas
See that where an assumption is incorect. Flow is not Flow when it comes to intake manifolds and cylinder heads. Flow is a good indicator but the dynamics of the runner will play havoc with flow in a situation that is very close to being accoustical in nature. Engines are more then just striaght air pumps. they are accustic devices and as such will respond to geometery changes as much as raw flow numbers.Not all geometery changes are good ones. If you change the geometery you change the accustics and if the accustics change in a way that produces standing waves you are going to kill power.
Just trying to get some clarification:
Are you moving the same FAST from car to car?
Are you saying that all 24X cams w/ a wider LSA cams are going to have a problem w/ the FAST or just in stock displacement engines? There's a ton of people running cams like that in 40X motors w/ nothing but positive results.
Are you using the same cam all the time? Same lobes?
I for one have never seen a loss going to FAST intake, just trying to find out specifically what is going on giving you negative results.
Are you moving the same FAST from car to car?
Are you saying that all 24X cams w/ a wider LSA cams are going to have a problem w/ the FAST or just in stock displacement engines? There's a ton of people running cams like that in 40X motors w/ nothing but positive results.
Are you using the same cam all the time? Same lobes?
I for one have never seen a loss going to FAST intake, just trying to find out specifically what is going on giving you negative results.
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Originally Posted by calongo_SS
Just trying to get some clarification:
Are you moving the same FAST from car to car?
Are you saying that all 24X cams w/ a wider LSA cams are going to have a problem w/ the FAST or just in stock displacement engines? There's a ton of people running cams like that in 40X motors w/ nothing but positive results.
Are you using the same cam all the time? Same lobes?
I for one have never seen a loss going to FAST intake, just trying to find out specifically what is going on giving you negative results.
Are you moving the same FAST from car to car?
Are you saying that all 24X cams w/ a wider LSA cams are going to have a problem w/ the FAST or just in stock displacement engines? There's a ton of people running cams like that in 40X motors w/ nothing but positive results.
Are you using the same cam all the time? Same lobes?
I for one have never seen a loss going to FAST intake, just trying to find out specifically what is going on giving you negative results.