SpeedRacer

Well, I'm about ready to take my car to the next level and I have a few questions. I'm thinking of forced induction and new cam & ported heads.

Which should I do first? I'm leaning toward the forced induction first for some reason. Any other opinions?

Supercharger -vs- Turbo? I'm kind of leaning toward the ATI Supercharger. Should I consider turbo instead? What are the advantages & disadvantages? Which models are best?

Which cam for force induction? Any cam recommendations for use with a supercharger or turbo setup? This is my daily driver, so I want to make sure it will idle and otherwise behave during normal driving.

I've heard folks mention "stage 2" heads. What does this mean? Should I send mine out to be ported or buy a new set? Any recommendations?

BIGBOS

If you want N/A go with the heads and cam...

If you want a power adder go with the ATI stage 2 Supercharger....(this is what I will get eventually) One of the best out there now, dual intercooled...

www.goldenwestperformance.com

I believe that is the site, someone correct me if im wrong

Turbos are ok, but IMO too complicated...

[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: BIGBOS ]</p>

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

You forgot N2O <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">
That's a daily driver and gives some serious kick when needed.

SpeedRacer

[quote]Originally posted by BIGBOS:
<strong>If you want N/A go with the heads and cam...

If you want a power adder go with the ATI stage 2 Supercharger</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thanks for the advice. It sounds like the two are mutually exclusive. In other words, you wouldn't recommend the heads & cam AND the supercharger, right?

Jacobi

Well, I'm not expert but I've got an idea. All your doing when you do heads and cam is allowing the engine to breathe better...all you doing with a power adder is putting more air into the engine...sounds like these two would compliment each other into a wicked fast machine!

y2khawk

iTrader: (5)

[quote]Originally posted by BIGBOS:
<strong>Turbos are ok, but IMO too complicated...
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why?? <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

I'm biased, but turbos kick *** <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">

they can be quiet for stealth, work pretty well on the stock heads and cam.

you can adjust your power level very easily, ie no pulley changes <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

you can have a very docile ride, or all out monster at the same time. All controlled w/ your right foot

SpeedRacer

Let me also through this into the mix: I got a quote for a Vortech SQ V9 system w/after cooler installed and with everything included for $6,500. Any comments?

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

The hot ticket is heads/cam, and a 150 shot of N2O. Hello mid 10s!

y2khawk

iTrader: (5)

[quote]Originally posted by Kyle B:
<strong>Let me also through this into the mix: I got a quote for a Vortech SQ V9 system w/after cooler installed and with everything included for $6,500. Any comments?</strong><hr></blockquote>

everything included eh??

what exactly is "everything included"?

hard to get the incon kit right now, but a TurboTech kit is under $4500 for stage 2 i think. not for sure though. Most shops charge about $1k for install.

nitrous is cheaper by far

NASSty01

[quote]Originally posted by BIGBOS:
<strong>If you want N/A go with the heads and cam...

If you want a power adder go with the ATI stage 2 Supercharger....(this is what I will get eventually) One of the best out there now, dual intercooled...

[[ November 27, 2001: Message edited by: BIGBOS ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think you mis-read what he said. He said he wanted to do BOTH H/C and FI.

I'd prolly do the Heads and Cam first so you don't have to do double the work on the S/C or Turbo. If you install the S/C first, you'll have to take it off/work around it to do the H/C.

Seen some pretty big #'s from H/C + S/C cars. 550+rwhp. Have Fun!!


<img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />

Rick

SpeedRacer

Thanks for all the comments so far. Let me address a few items:

y2khawk: I figured turbo's would be more complicated because you have to tie into the exhaust as well as the intake. Where does the system tap into the exhaust? Do you know where I can find some pic's and info on a turbo installation?

Slowhawk & Terry Burger: I didn't mention N02 on purpose. I know that lots of people like it and it can provide a big power boost, but I don't like the idea of having a bottle for several reasons: 1) it's explosive 2) it takes up space somewhere 3) you have to refill it from time to time 4) you have have to do other maint such as heating (or is it cooling?) the bottle, purging, monitoring pressures, etc. 5) It's not always on --you have to press a button or something, right? Not intended to be a flame on NO2, I just don't think it's my cup of tea.

y2khawk: You asked what is included. My local shop has done several of the Vortech installations and he stressed that it is a "complete" kit that would come with aftercooler, fuel injectors, computer programming device and everything else necessary for installation. Here is some info from their website:

Each system is 100% complete, right down to the wire ties. The following items are included with every Vortech supercharging system at the time of purchase (unless otherwise noted):
Compressor matched, computer aided designed and machined Vortech centrifugal supercharger with SQ technology for "Super Quiet" operation
Calibrated fuel system for proper fuel management*
High performance ignition system with boost timing retard for proper timing curve*
Custom computer tuning*
High flow air intake system with a K&N air filter and specially formed polypropylene plastic inlet ducts for minimum restriction and superior fit
Heat resistant silicone hose coupling
Premium grade flex hose
Stainless steel clamps
Carefully designed and flow tested cast aluminum and/or roto molded urethane air discharge tubing
Compressor bypass valve
OEM style single cast 356 aluminum mounting brackets heat treated to T-6 specifications for strength
Supercharger drive pulley
Integrated belt tensioner
Premium drive belt
Heavy duty mounting hardware
Tie wraps
Heavy duty engine oil lubrication system
Satin or polished finish
Step-by-step, fully illustrated installation manual
3-year limited warranty on most systems
Mandrel bent, TIG welded and powder coated cooling water re-route kit*



Please keep the comments coming. Any ideas on a cam to go with a supercharger or turbo?

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: Kyle B ]</p>

RyanJ

turbos dont "tie" into the exhaust. whichever kit you choose (Turbo Tech or Incon) will come with a new exhaust manifold for each turbo. The kit will include everything from the air filter to the y-pipe. install shouldnt bee too much more than that vortech. and it takes less power to turn the turbo than the blower. oh and nitrous is not explosive.

SpeedRacer

Thanks for setting me straight on a couple things, RyanJackson. <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0"> I have SLP long tube headers. Would I have to lose those to go with turbo? If nitrous is not explosive, how does it make so much power? I'm not being a smart-***, I am genuinly curious. <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0">

Cool28

iTrader: (2)

ok I'll put it to you in cost and tuning and ease.

1)Heads and cam(Most work with stock tuning)
2)Supercharger(some tuneing issues and looks to be a real bitch if you have to change plugs vortech anyway)
3) Turbocharger(lots of tuneing, FUEL FUEL FUEL <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> , but can also produce better results then both above).

Thats the way I look at it. I love my turbo system though.

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: Cool28 ]</p>

BIGBOS

Yes...

Heads/Cam installed around $4000 (all depends on the heads)

Blower $5500-6000-$6500 installed

So heads/cam blower package will be around 10,000 dollars if you want to do that be my guest...the car will boogie.. <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

Cool28

iTrader: (2)

don't forget clutch, driveshaft and rear <img src="images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0">

Camaroholic

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to go a bit against the grain here, and say, why bother with heads if considering forced induction?

IMHO, unless you're going to rebuild the motor with forged internals, skip on the heads. Even then, if you do forged internals, do a set of mild heads. You can always up the boost. <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">

Hear me out...

B1/TR224 Cam plus M6 plus all boltons & good exhaust: 380-390 RWHP

Add Stage 2 heads: 410-420 RWHP.

Umm, that's $2500+ for 30 NA HP? Hmm.....

So in the inital part of the build, a cam, a supercharger, a good exhaust, and you'll be cruising well. And if you're rolling on a stock bottom end, you'll probably end up needing a rebuild anyway. Then build a full-tilt boogie forged internal motor with some decent heads, and you'll fly. <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" /> This approach lets you have fun while you sock away money for the rebuild fund (unless you've got a money tree already <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> I sure don't ).

I'm going to be testing out my theory hopefully by next summer. B1, Grots, and an ATI Stage 2, on stock heads & pistons. Maybe after a year or two, then I'll build a forged internal motor with a few tricks.

-Andrew

RyanJ

easiest way to explain it (and the way i understand it) is that N2O is a "helper." It helps an already flamable/combustable mixture. It will NOT explode like on 'The Fast and the Furious.' As long as the pressure stays with in reason (below 1200-1300psi) nothing will go wrong. If you look into some of the kits you will see they come with a NHRA blow-off valve and a blow down tube. The purpose of the blow-off is to release the pressure in the bottle when it gets to a certain point so the damn thing doesnt explode. Without a blow-off and with the heater left on idiots blow their **** up in their garage. The tube directs the loose n2o out of the car if it blows while youre inside. Nitrous is a cheap and effective way to gain LOTS of power. you can gain power in 1002 different ways. Do the research, be prepared, and tune the car. DO NOT just throw something on and expect it to be fine ALL the time.

Oh, since a turbo kit includes the manifolds, you will need to sell or stash the headers. A supercharger will gain a bunch from the headers, BTW.


Let me know if you need anything else.
Ryan

BIGBOS

Next big mod on list is ATI stage 2 procharger...can we say lots of HP and broken drivetrain pieces... <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

Reckless

iTrader: (9)

Are you in luck or what? Got a T-76 turbo kit with your name on it. Best part is I will give you credit for your headers and air box! Let me know if you're interested. See my post in the classifieds.


TURBO = <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />