Picking Rods
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From: College Station, Tx
Re: Picking Rods With the low rpm's a turbo should lend itself to you could probably run a good set of h-beams and be fine. Realistically at that power level I would be looking for a set of billet rods. You can pick up generic china billet starting at around 500 a set, and price + quality go up from there. If you are intent on having a reliable daily driver 800rwhp car I would plan on spending 700-1000 on the rods. Yep, you can probably get away with less (400-500 for ibeams), but I personally wouldn't want to take the chance. 800rwhp is ALOT. To have it be reliable is different then just having it work.
Chris
Chris
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From: Sterling Heights Mi
Re: Picking Rods What is stronger: Billet or Forged? H or I? What is the strongest in order money not being an issue? And who makes the good stuff? <img src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Re: Picking Rods on a suggestion from the base engine guy here at work, i wandered over to LPE's site.
They use billet rods in their 650HP TT vette package.
might be a reason why <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
FWIW, i'm fully prepared to shell out $2k for rods and pistons <img src="gr_eek2.gif" border="0">
They use billet rods in their 650HP TT vette package.
might be a reason why <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
FWIW, i'm fully prepared to shell out $2k for rods and pistons <img src="gr_eek2.gif" border="0">
Re: Picking Rods i've heard the same
i know they make billet aluminum, how about billet steel.
I'd think a nice set of billet 4340 rods would be nice and strong <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
i know they make billet aluminum, how about billet steel.
I'd think a nice set of billet 4340 rods would be nice and strong <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
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From: NC
Re: Picking Rods H-beam rods are stronger than I-beams(thicker centers), billet steel is stronger than forged steel. Billet aluminum is kick *** light but they stretch over time and have to be replaced as needed. Most race motors go through a set a year or less(aluminum). Billet steel rods are the ticket. At your power levels, I would consider them a must.
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Re: Picking Rods Why would a billet rod not be streetable? Like was mentioned, a billet 4340 steel rod would stand up to almost anything and will last forever. Also, I would definitely shy away from aluminum rods. Personally, I think Oliver makes the best rods in the business, but others such as Luanti and Crower (I beams) aren't bad. Oh, and Oliver has a slick set of titanium rods as well... probably for the low, low cost of around 4 grand <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> .
John
John
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From: Nawf Carolina
Re: Picking Rods When I said I'd heard billet wasn't streetable, I meant to say billet aluminium.
Titanium rods are bearing hammers aren't they <img src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" border="0" alt="[judgement]" />
Titanium rods are bearing hammers aren't they <img src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" border="0" alt="[judgement]" />
Thread Starter
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From: College Station, Tx
Re: Picking Rods Yep, aluminum is a no-go on a street engine.
Billet steel is perfectly streetable though. I would honestly probably go for a cheaper billet than a more expensive h-beam in general, but the reality is going to depend on the manufacturer of each.
If you honestly want 800rwhp streetable the 2000 for piston and rods isn't too far off (esp. if you include rings, rod bolts, etc.).
I would echo ramairJP's reccomendation of oliver. I think a billet set of rods form them will run you around a grand. There are lots of good companies out there though.
For pistons I would go JE or CP. I don't know what stroke, deck height (or even block), etc. you are going with, but I would spec the rod last. Spec a piston first with a ring stack height that will work well with your application, etc. then see what general range of rods you are looking at. You might end up trading down to a 6" rod for a little better ring stack.
Chris
Billet steel is perfectly streetable though. I would honestly probably go for a cheaper billet than a more expensive h-beam in general, but the reality is going to depend on the manufacturer of each.
If you honestly want 800rwhp streetable the 2000 for piston and rods isn't too far off (esp. if you include rings, rod bolts, etc.).
I would echo ramairJP's reccomendation of oliver. I think a billet set of rods form them will run you around a grand. There are lots of good companies out there though.
For pistons I would go JE or CP. I don't know what stroke, deck height (or even block), etc. you are going with, but I would spec the rod last. Spec a piston first with a ring stack height that will work well with your application, etc. then see what general range of rods you are looking at. You might end up trading down to a 6" rod for a little better ring stack.
Chris
Re: Picking Rods true on the pistons.
it's stock LS1, 9.24 deck height, 3.622 stroke, 346 cu. in. plus the hone.
goal is ~9:1
I'm making close to 600rwhp now, and don't plan to go any lower.
FWIW, a set of lunati pro mod billets are $950 at summit.
Oliver's (their site) $1100 w/ the OK bolts, $1600 with the good bolts.
I knew it would cost me, not a surprise.
it's stock LS1, 9.24 deck height, 3.622 stroke, 346 cu. in. plus the hone.
goal is ~9:1
I'm making close to 600rwhp now, and don't plan to go any lower.
FWIW, a set of lunati pro mod billets are $950 at summit.
Oliver's (their site) $1100 w/ the OK bolts, $1600 with the good bolts.
I knew it would cost me, not a surprise.
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Wilson, NC
Re: Picking Rods Oliver or Crower. Thats what our engine guy uses on his stock car engines. The 4340 billet rods from Crower are about $800 a set. I think the Olivers are a little bit more. Either one should be fine.
On The Tree
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From: IN
Re: Picking Rods Bill Mitchell Hardcore Racing lists a 638c.i. Street Engine that pumps out 770hp & 792ft-lbs.
It uses Eagle 4340 Forged 6.100" rods. Has anyone ever checked into using a stud girdle on the LS1 for extra bottom end strength? Peace
Doug
00 Pontiac <img src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
It uses Eagle 4340 Forged 6.100" rods. Has anyone ever checked into using a stud girdle on the LS1 for extra bottom end strength? Peace
Doug
00 Pontiac <img src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Re: Picking Rods Crazy... gotcha on the rods. I was confused about a billet not being streetable, but i definitely agree on the billet aluminum (or any aluminum for that matter). Steel is definitely the only way to go. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
I'm not sure about the titanium rods being hard on the bearings. I've never dealt with them or heard much about them, but have only seen them in the oliver catalog. I know they are very light... only about 450 grams if I remember right <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> .
Also, Chris is right on about sizing the rods last. I think the two "connectors" (rods and pushrods) should be chosen on the "as needed" basis and you shouldn't have the engine built around improper lengths. I also echo his recommendation on the JE pistons... there's no better made.
John
I'm not sure about the titanium rods being hard on the bearings. I've never dealt with them or heard much about them, but have only seen them in the oliver catalog. I know they are very light... only about 450 grams if I remember right <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> .
Also, Chris is right on about sizing the rods last. I think the two "connectors" (rods and pushrods) should be chosen on the "as needed" basis and you shouldn't have the engine built around improper lengths. I also echo his recommendation on the JE pistons... there's no better made.
John
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From: Nawf Carolina
Re: Picking Rods This is just what I heard over at moparchat about titanium rods. You know a lot of the big power adder guys like to run aluminium rods because they cushion the bearings some. They absorb some of the shock, that a steel rod wont. Well same goes for titanium, real light but it doesn't absorb any shock so its harder on bearings. Of course these guys are talking about big nitrous applications usually. A turbo car is easier on bearings than a nitrous car isn't it? Titanium might be a viable option for a turbo car.
Thread Starter
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From: College Station, Tx
Re: Picking Rods The problem with titanium rods is that they are bad about work hardening. They are a bit easier on the bearings (their youngs modulus is about half that of steel, depending on which alloys, etc.). They don't stretch like aluminum rods. But as mentioned above after repeated heat cycles as well as the stresses of an engine etc. (and because they last longer than Al rods so are subject to more stress cycles) they will work harden and become pretty brittle. This is obviously not a desirably trait, and so they should be replaced on a regular basis; though not as often as Al rods.
Chris
Chris
Picking Rods OK OK
so i'm doing the digging for pieces/parts on project EVIL TWIN <img src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" border="0" alt="[devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />
hehehe
anyway, i'm trying to decide what rods to get. I've decided to go w/ a 6.125 rod, as i'm having pistons made so i can choose the comp. height and wrist pin size.
I find forged, billet, I-beam, H-beam, etc, etc.
advantages/disadvantages to each type??
Here's the low down on the power....
Dave assures me that the "little" turbos are good to 800rwhp. I intend to find out <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
will run ~10psi day to day, looking to keep the same power level i have now, but on pump gas.
will push it up to 15+ psi on race gas, or until i lift the heads. Will fix that when it comes time. Heads, intercooler, and intake will be able to handle the flow. And the fuel system will be sufficient. Tuning is taken care of.
Soooo......
what would you choose for a 600 RWHP daily driver that you can drive to the track, turn the **** up a few pounds, and hopefully cruise to low 10's <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
so i'm doing the digging for pieces/parts on project EVIL TWIN <img src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" border="0" alt="[devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />
hehehe
anyway, i'm trying to decide what rods to get. I've decided to go w/ a 6.125 rod, as i'm having pistons made so i can choose the comp. height and wrist pin size.
I find forged, billet, I-beam, H-beam, etc, etc.
advantages/disadvantages to each type??
Here's the low down on the power....
Dave assures me that the "little" turbos are good to 800rwhp. I intend to find out <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
will run ~10psi day to day, looking to keep the same power level i have now, but on pump gas.
will push it up to 15+ psi on race gas, or until i lift the heads. Will fix that when it comes time. Heads, intercooler, and intake will be able to handle the flow. And the fuel system will be sufficient. Tuning is taken care of.
Soooo......
what would you choose for a 600 RWHP daily driver that you can drive to the track, turn the **** up a few pounds, and hopefully cruise to low 10's <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">