Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that??
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Newport Coast, Ca
Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? lately my mph has been down almost 1 1/2 mph. I was not able to a-tap my car prior to my car mph'ing low. Went to the track, and A-tap shows a consistent 2 1/2 degrees of KR.
I mixed 100 unleaded racing gas with my gas and still got KR. I have FLP's that sit CLOSE to the floorboard BUT i do have a high temp hose thati shoved between the floorboard and the pipes, so there not banging that much, rather i just hear the 'vibration' when im in my car.
could this KR be hurting me or am i just worrying to much? If so, where do i go from here?
thanks
Mods:
ST-3500
FLP's ORP
PCM tuning (wright)
TR-224 cam
Hoosier Drags (26*9*15)
ASP pulley
boltons
car has been mph'ing around 110 ish with this 2 1/2 of KR. something is definitely wrong!
thanks
I mixed 100 unleaded racing gas with my gas and still got KR. I have FLP's that sit CLOSE to the floorboard BUT i do have a high temp hose thati shoved between the floorboard and the pipes, so there not banging that much, rather i just hear the 'vibration' when im in my car.
could this KR be hurting me or am i just worrying to much? If so, where do i go from here?
thanks
Mods:
ST-3500
FLP's ORP
PCM tuning (wright)
TR-224 cam
Hoosier Drags (26*9*15)
ASP pulley
boltons
car has been mph'ing around 110 ish with this 2 1/2 of KR. something is definitely wrong!
thanks
Re: Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? [quote]lately my mph has been down almost 1 1/2 mph<hr></blockquote>
You answered your own question. 2-1/2 degrees of KR is pretty bad. Anything over 1 degree really starts to show up as poor track performance.
Also, don't limit the source of KR ideas to just the FLP headers, it can be caused by a variety of things.
Let me know if you need a KnockOut Box <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
Tony
You answered your own question. 2-1/2 degrees of KR is pretty bad. Anything over 1 degree really starts to show up as poor track performance.
Also, don't limit the source of KR ideas to just the FLP headers, it can be caused by a variety of things.
Let me know if you need a KnockOut Box <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
Tony
Re: Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? Just put a couple small resistors between the knock sensor wires and ground. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Thread Starter
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Newport Coast, Ca
Re: Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? Sounds like im leaving A LOT on the table with this KR that im getting. Thanks everyone for your help. gonna think it over now <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
I can shift faster than you.
iTrader: (21)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,133
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
Re: Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? [quote]Originally posted by Nine Ball:
<strong>
Let me know if you need a KnockOut Box <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
Tony</strong><hr></blockquote>
After reading his post, I was about to say the same thing. LOL
Jack, I would try the knockout box and see if that fixes your problem. You are defintely leaving hp/tq on the board with that much KR.
<strong>
Let me know if you need a KnockOut Box <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
Tony</strong><hr></blockquote>
After reading his post, I was about to say the same thing. LOL
Jack, I would try the knockout box and see if that fixes your problem. You are defintely leaving hp/tq on the board with that much KR.
TECH Resident
iTrader: (3)
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From: Richmond, VA Where fast cars, well......are hard to come by.
Re: Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? Man, I didn't know 2.5 degrees hurt that bad. Maybe that would explain my somewhat low mph. I'll have to look into this.
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Launching!
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From: Maxell AFB, AL
Re: Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? [quote]Originally posted by steve:
<strong>get the knockout box from tony and de-sensitize the knock sensors...your losing upwards of 25-30 rwhp i bet from that much kr
steve frank</strong><hr></blockquote>
25-30 RWHP? That seems like a awful lot to be losing. Also, I would hope that much Hp would result in more than a 1.5 mph lose.
<strong>get the knockout box from tony and de-sensitize the knock sensors...your losing upwards of 25-30 rwhp i bet from that much kr
steve frank</strong><hr></blockquote>
25-30 RWHP? That seems like a awful lot to be losing. Also, I would hope that much Hp would result in more than a 1.5 mph lose.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
TECH Enthusiast
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From: Newport Coast, Ca
Re: Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? Before I swapped this cam from my old comp 212/218, my mph was as high as 113 or very close to it. Since i have installed the new cam, Im leading to believe that possibly a noisy valvetrain could cause KR?? In that case is it considered false?? I run a cutout at the track which is very loud, and im wondering if the noise/vibration could cause that. I notice that the 2 1/2 degrees are with me the WHOLE way down the track, kinda weird <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0">
how hard is it to put this Knock out Box on? Do i have to pull the manifold off or can i just work my way around it? thanks
how hard is it to put this Knock out Box on? Do i have to pull the manifold off or can i just work my way around it? thanks
Re: Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? [quote]Just put a couple small resistors between the knock sensor wires and ground<hr></blockquote>
Not quite Terry, that is the ghetto way of doing the modification. My KO-Box has no ground wires, it simply plugs inline on the OEM harness. And, it still measures as the correct resistance values coming from the K-sensors. Of course the voltage signal coming from them has been reduced greatly, but the PCM doesn't know that. <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
SSBoy, the KOBox takes about 1 minute to install if you get the OEM plug-in version. If you get the splice-in version it takes about 15 minutes since you have to locate the wires that need to be cut in your PCM harness. Yes noisy valvetrain can cause the problem, and yes loud exhaust can cause the problem.
http://kickme.to/KOBox
Tony
Not quite Terry, that is the ghetto way of doing the modification. My KO-Box has no ground wires, it simply plugs inline on the OEM harness. And, it still measures as the correct resistance values coming from the K-sensors. Of course the voltage signal coming from them has been reduced greatly, but the PCM doesn't know that. <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
SSBoy, the KOBox takes about 1 minute to install if you get the OEM plug-in version. If you get the splice-in version it takes about 15 minutes since you have to locate the wires that need to be cut in your PCM harness. Yes noisy valvetrain can cause the problem, and yes loud exhaust can cause the problem.
http://kickme.to/KOBox
Tony
Re: Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? We talked yesterday about this in car chat,did not know you were a member here.
The knock out box would be the best way of curing the KR rather than the resistors because the resitors can sometimes pull apart or even break at the wire point causeing SES lights.
Your prolly getting the KR from the combination of valvetrain noise (common on cam set ups) and the vibrations from your exahaust through the cutout. I only see around 1.5 degrees of KR sometimes and i found most of my problems being in the Y pipe where it bolts to the tranny mount. The bolts had come loose and were rattling against the mount and causeing some of my KR. You cure the KR and your ET along with MPH should show up. I would think your loseing up to 20rwhp or so with that much KR.
The knock out box would be the best way of curing the KR rather than the resistors because the resitors can sometimes pull apart or even break at the wire point causeing SES lights.
Your prolly getting the KR from the combination of valvetrain noise (common on cam set ups) and the vibrations from your exahaust through the cutout. I only see around 1.5 degrees of KR sometimes and i found most of my problems being in the Y pipe where it bolts to the tranny mount. The bolts had come loose and were rattling against the mount and causeing some of my KR. You cure the KR and your ET along with MPH should show up. I would think your loseing up to 20rwhp or so with that much KR.
Thread Starter
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From: Newport Coast, Ca
Re: Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? StreetStalker,
yep, that was me. thanks for your help. I think im going to go ahead and try the KO box. I only bet that unit could help me. It will prolly bring my mph back up and hopefully my e.t. down <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
thanks for your help.
jack
yep, that was me. thanks for your help. I think im going to go ahead and try the KO box. I only bet that unit could help me. It will prolly bring my mph back up and hopefully my e.t. down <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
thanks for your help.
jack
Re: Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? Well, I haven't had any dissatisfied customers yet, and I've sold about 35 of these units so far. I guess they work okay <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Besides, more beer money is always good <img src="graemlins/gr_chug.gif" border="0" alt="[chug]" />
Tony
Besides, more beer money is always good <img src="graemlins/gr_chug.gif" border="0" alt="[chug]" />
Tony
Re: Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? [quote]
Not quite Terry, that is the ghetto way of doing the modification.
<hr></blockquote>
Yah but it works. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Not quite Terry, that is the ghetto way of doing the modification.
<hr></blockquote>
Yah but it works. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Re: Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? Also 2-3 degrees of timing is not going to hurt anyone much. I make the best power with my combo @ ~24 degrees of timing... lol.
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From: houston
Re: Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? how are you going to know youve lost 7-8 degrees of timing due to kr?
the max a computer is going to "tell" you is 4?
the resistor mod works, and if you are seeing false knock, get rid of it. ive seen cars pick aver 2 tenths with it.tonys setup is a cleaner install tho.
and 24 degrees is kinda low. i know my car runs like crap with timing that low. so do others around here.
thats going to reinforce the beliefe that either your fuel in that part of the country sucks *** or something is wrong.
every car is differant and is going to respond to
things differant.
and as far as the 25-30 rwhp guess, thats exactly what it is. a guess. but its a real close one give or take a few hp
steve frank
the max a computer is going to "tell" you is 4?
the resistor mod works, and if you are seeing false knock, get rid of it. ive seen cars pick aver 2 tenths with it.tonys setup is a cleaner install tho.
and 24 degrees is kinda low. i know my car runs like crap with timing that low. so do others around here.
thats going to reinforce the beliefe that either your fuel in that part of the country sucks *** or something is wrong.
every car is differant and is going to respond to
things differant.
and as far as the 25-30 rwhp guess, thats exactly what it is. a guess. but its a real close one give or take a few hp
steve frank
Thread Starter
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From: Newport Coast, Ca
Re: Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? I do care about my RWHP, but i care more about getting my E.T/MPH back at the track! Now i do realize that bringing back that RWHP will help bring back that E.T/MPH.
We do have that 91 crap gas, and I did try the 100 octane, but like i said, the 2 1/2 degrees showed up the entire time as the car was movin down the track.
Whats weird is that I remember actually getting more one night as I was giving it a test WOT run on a local street. I remember seeing upwards of 3 1/2 degrees.
Either way,
i think most of these guys that have there cars dialed in and running with the same mods that i have (or close to it) and are well in the 11's have close to 0 KR. This car should be clicking off 11's all day long, but that KR is sure not helping.
We do have that 91 crap gas, and I did try the 100 octane, but like i said, the 2 1/2 degrees showed up the entire time as the car was movin down the track.
Whats weird is that I remember actually getting more one night as I was giving it a test WOT run on a local street. I remember seeing upwards of 3 1/2 degrees.
Either way,
i think most of these guys that have there cars dialed in and running with the same mods that i have (or close to it) and are well in the 11's have close to 0 KR. This car should be clicking off 11's all day long, but that KR is sure not helping.
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From: houston
Re: Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? either way you do it, desensitize the knock sensor 25 percent and you will pick it back up. i think it is false knock you are getting.
steve frank
steve frank
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From: Newtown, PA
Re: Getting 2 1/2 degrees of KR, how bad is that?? Just be careful about desensitizing your knock sensors. If you wind up getting true knock retard, you risk destroying your engine because it won't be pulling the timing correctly and you will be pretty pissed off at the cost of a new engine.
I have some false KR sometimes due to various things, but I am going to let my knock sensors do what they are designed to do. I want to protect my engine that I invested a ton of money into.
I am not knocking the knock out box, I am just saying that it has no idea between the difference of true knock retard and false knock retard. So you may be getting false knock now, but one tank of bad gas, and a day at the track and your engine might not make it after all those wide open throttle runs.
Just my .02.
Dan
I have some false KR sometimes due to various things, but I am going to let my knock sensors do what they are designed to do. I want to protect my engine that I invested a ton of money into.
I am not knocking the knock out box, I am just saying that it has no idea between the difference of true knock retard and false knock retard. So you may be getting false knock now, but one tank of bad gas, and a day at the track and your engine might not make it after all those wide open throttle runs.
Just my .02.
Dan