8SecondBird

ok currently i gots a V6 birdy but i bought that for a reason (cheaper this way since i dont want just a plain 5.7 L ls1)

I want to get an engine 427CID or bigger I.E. 436 Etc I also have a Direct Port Fogger in mind maybe a 300-350 SHOT of Nitrous Oxide. It also has to be fairly Reliable and i want to push HUGE HP numbers 900-1000.
And my ultimate goal is a 9 second flat car...(which i hope to shave 0.02 off by driving better, that way i can claim 8's haha <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> )
It has to be street legal (assuming i put street tires on, exhaust silencer etc. just nothing HUGE that would make it illegal such as wheelie bars.
and i dont want any huge weight reductions (i want to have an audio system and some Comfy seats!!!!)
my budget is not that huge but on the other hand i have NO expenses except car. i CAN get a loan and i make about $1500 a month (car payment is only $250 and im almost done it,
What should i do??? I looked up some stroker engines and MTI makes what seams like a very nice one not sure how she would respond to a large shot nos. and maybe an up in her compression ratio. that engine goes for $21,000!!!!!
Agostino Racing engines go for about $14,000 im not sure about the nos on that either but i have seem people run nos in them so im assuming this is safe? and then finally Ligenfelter makes a 427CID C5R block that goes for 30G which i wont ever be able to touch.... What should I do??? Do these numbers seem realistic within the next 3-5 Years (pushing 9 seconds flat on a street legal car)
any help or Reassurance lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> would be great!!
and which Engine to run?
last question is if i dont have a wheelie bar and i popped one would i be at risk of tearing my rear bumper apart ( i plan on having a body kit) and damaging other things?

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

No offense, but I don't think your goals are very realistic. Building a 9.0 car is going to take a LOT more than just an engine and some nitrous. You will basically have to replace everything on that car but the body itself. 9.0s are no joke, and your wallet will feel that impact.

MTI's engine listed at $21K is not just the engine, its a complete package that takes a completely stock 5.7L and transforms it into a 7.0L with ALL of the bolt-ons, installation, warranty, and tranny upgrades, not to mention dyno tuning. The engine itself is in the $13-14K range like most shops. They make excellent naturally aspirated setups, but for nitrous use larger than 200 rwhp sized shots, I'd go with a Darton sleeved block or an iron block for durability. Spraying an MTI stroker also voids its warranty, which is a risk most guys would rather avoid. Its nice having a 500+ rwhp engine you can beat the crap out of and get fixed for free if something fails.

9.0s? Here is how I would do it:

3000 lb car (pretty much no accesories, etc..)
Ford 9" rear, spooled
Powerglide 2-speed tranny with brake
HAL shocks
28" slicks
408+ci Iron-Block with LS6 Stage 3 heads
Custom sheetmetal intake with direct port
solid roller camshaft setup
300 shot nitrous
Suspension upgrades like Madman's stuff

No, it wouldn't be a "street" car. lol

-Tony

8SecondBird

there has to be other alternatives to it then just that. I seen plenty LOW 9 second cars that are street Legal. I really dont want ANYTHING but the 6 Spd Tranny. No 2 speed powerglide crap. i wouldnt change a standard (by standard i dont mean stock!) method of shifting for anything else.
the 345Hp 2002 Ls1 runs flat 13's (stock everything even tires) so i have Exactly 4 seconds to shave with the help of using Racing Slicks, 300+ Shot of Nos, higher compression and Larger Displacement engine (427's, 436's), 4.10' or 4.30 rearend, carbon driveshaft, lightweight flywheel, clutch, Titanium forged pistons ETC., Racing Tranny... and maybe some mild things to shave weight such as Lighter body (carbon Fiber etc) racing seats (they weigh fairly less then stock seats and are real nice) Maybe have thinner windows for less weight but nothing Huge like completely Stripping out the interior... and this will only be a summercar/Drag car so during the winter things can be takin out, maybe get some Lightweight Magnesium rims with slicks for the strip and some Chrommies for the road and for show... You really think i wont be able to hit these numbers? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
any other thoughts out there?

highgmc

no offense, but a heavy stereo system just doesn't fit in a 9 sec car. prepare yourself to spend ALOT of cash!
also, you'll need something more than a 4l60 if you plan on being that fast.

8SecondBird

not a real heavy stereo just 60 LBS or so for the whole thing.....which is the only mod that i would be doing that would increase weight,...

a measly 60Lbs and BTW isnt the 4l60e an automatic tranny? i was thinking 6 spd what about the th400's i believe that one would work... how is a 427 Cubic inch motor with High Comp. 4.10 or 4.3's with racing slicks and a 300+ shot nos not qualify to run 9's (assuming the rearend and such ARE strengthened) i bought this mag a few days back and these panzy *** 750HP 4 bangers were pulling BETWEEN 8.9's-10.2's how will this v8 with just about 600 HP and 300shot nos not gonna cut it to 9 flats?
Btw im not trying to sound like a ********... if u could hear my voice youd know. basically what im saying is its mind boggling how these 4 and 6 banger 2 and 3 litre engines with forced induction + nos and FRONT WHEEL DRIVE!!!! are pulling 9's and most only way 200-250 Lbs more look at the eclipse it is the same weight as a firebird!!! and the 4 wheeel drive ones kill so much power through the drivetrain.
Is there a 436 CID Iron block pushing High 600's low 700's in HP that was built for high NOS shots?
Is it at all possible to get a titanium block for an extra 4 grand or something? or will iron probly be better? in the same sence upgrading to titanium pistons, cranks, and valves a good idea at all or not?
Im trying to figure out exactly what i need so i know where to budget money what to get and what to expect.
I dont want to save for unknown plans get the money saved up rush into buying the wrong engine for my needs ETC.
so im trying to do my research now... anyone here hit Low 9's in the ws6's or SS's ? let me know what you got and i'll try to work from there to get the times down a littl more then that. hearing all this talk about how hard it will be makes me want to quit <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> or possibly say the hell with running it safe and slap on a blower... even if it might lead to early engine death

8SecondBird

Some links would be wonderful

Thank you for those who had replied and thanks ahead for any who continue to reply

-Joseph-

iTrader: (12)

Did you just say Titanium?

BTW How much are you planning on spending for a 8-9 second car, it won't be enough?

<small>[ January 28, 2003, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: -Joseph- ]</small>

8SecondBird

lol ya, why?

-Joseph-

iTrader: (12)

The C5R racing block (aluminum) is about $6200, bare block only.

8SecondBird

i'll spend 50 grand NOT counting price of my car. i will do whatever it takes loans etc blow ALL my money on this every cent from every paychech for the next 5 years and loans, i will do whatever it take s i am dead serioys about this no joke,
i will settle for 9.1 but no higher

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Good luck and keep us posted.

We have one car on the site that has run a best of 8.92 and the next fastest car is 9.40. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

-Joseph-

iTrader: (12)

If you buy the right stuff the first time and not waste any money I could see it being built for $50K. The chassis work, subframe, chromoly pieces, suspension, 9", + race legal cage is about $10-12K. You may just want to pick up another car for cheap (one that doesn't run) to do this to - being realistic.

Black Sunshine/ 00SS

iTrader: (1)

"i will do whatever it takes loans etc blow ALL my money on this every cent from every paychech for the next 5 years and loans, i will do whatever it take s i am dead serioys about this no joke,"

LMAO, that's how I'm financing mine!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" />

IF you are serious, then you might wanna give ARE a call & talk to Wade. They hold the record, but I'm sure that they'll help you build something to beat it.

I've never heard of a 436 iron block. My guess is that the block would have to be sleaved. Also, that block, if built, would likely make 500-550 NA, so make sure you have the block built to handle a 450-500 shot, in order to get the power levels you are looking at.

You dont sound serious, or perhaps you are just un-informed on things, in which case it's ok, because you've come to the right spot to get schooled. I'm learing every day. Good luck to ya. I suggest you start reading, alot...

Here's the link you need :
http://www.agostino-racing.com/
866-539-4605

Dope

iTrader: (2)

I really think you need to do a lot more research on cars and drivetrains and so forth in general. You talk about running 300+ shots of nitrous but then you're talking about FI like it's gonna hurt your motor any worse.

Those 8-10 second FWD imports ARE NOT STREET CARS BY ANY MEANS. Street legal? Yeah, probably technically. You think you'd want to drive one of those on the street? Just because you see them on TV doesn't mean it took TONS of time and money, failures and rebuilds and so forth to go that fast (especially in an import). You didn't even mention any of your current ETs, you just said a stock car could go 13 flat. Have you even been to the dragstrip?

My suggestion is to start small. Do the basic bolt ons, drivetrain mods, suspension mods, etc.. I thought it was easy too, I thought I'd have a 10 second car easy. Once you do it though, you never go as fast as you hoped, and you always spend 3x as much as you wanted to.

Also, think about this - there are no 9.0 sec 6spd cars yet. NO ONE. And there's only one automatic car there. The fastest cars are all automatic. I think the fastest person on this site 'only' runs mid or low 10s or so with a 6spd. You know how much more power you need to go from low/mid10s to 9 flat?

I'm not saying it's not possible. It would just require a ton of money, a ton of mechanical skills, a ton of roadblocks, and a ton of time. A nasty 436 with a 300 shot in a light car might be enough power, but that's only part of the equation. You'd need a drivetrain to hold the power, suspension tires to hook it, and a driver to get it to the end. You'd have to be cutting somewhere in the 1.1-1.2 second 60' times. Go to the track and see what kind of 60's you can eek out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Like PSJ said, there would be nothing left of the original car except for the body and floorboards, pretty much.

Enough rambling. The point is, try to be realistic. Talk to some people with really fast cars, and try to get a feel for what it takes. Building a fast car on paper is really easy.

Or, just send your car and somewhere between 75-100k to Lingenfelter and they'll probably fix it up for ya nice with a TT 427 or something.

Dope

8SecondBird

yea i do know the technical things behind this and YEs i know Nitrous is a chemical means of forced induction. n20 carrying heavy oxygen into the engine and the engine puts in more fuel to compinsate in terms doing the same thing that a turbo or SC would do but im thinking 9ps1 supercharger on a large block with 300shot nos would be a little bit much,.... i think 50 Grand would be enough to do this i just need to figure out what i need and not buy things only to relize later i should have gotten something else (everyone here knows what i mean by that because it happens to the best of us). alot would be the same car you swap out the rearend, suspension, engine, tranny, and strengthen the chassis... its STILL the same car non the less... so the statement its just the body thats the same in some ways of thinking at it is not true.
I have been into the import seen for a while (even though i never really liked those cars) and i picked up incredible loads of knowledge but the reason i stand here confused before you is, to be honost modding up imports and modding up domestic is COMPLETELY different for those who havent been around the import world believe it or not its true, its a whole new ball game, so im going from an incredibly knowledged person almost to feeling like an idiot being around these domestics because they are so different, LMAO as a matter of fact when you get headers for imports they are known as Shorties or LT (long tubes) YOU JUST BUY HEADERS!!!!!! lol anyone ever hear of a torque convertor change on imports rarely ever happens.
and there engines can take so much abuse and PS1 (were talking about a stock block with after market pistons, cranks, valvetrain, cylinder heads. i mean it really is different,
I hope to pick up alot in this forum, and i really cant stand those imports + Ford MUSTAKES. i hate them all. im thinking about giving ARE (agonstino racing engines) a call or email and see how much money and such it would take to be in the low 9's.
and lastly to whoever said have you seen the cars run low 13's im kinda lost on that... i dont have a timeslip... i Gteched my car bro but i got a shitty 3800 series v6 i bought the 6 cylider because it only ran me a little more then 7 grand and its a 2001 i was planning on dropping a beefy 8 and what i meant by the 13's is STock Ws6's run low 13's
Check this site out
http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/...907AUCTBM.html this was for 1999, in 2002 the power got a slight bump up by a change in the headers to some 345 HP so the 2002 should run an even 13.10 or 13.05, and from what i heard from a friend that went to a track he said a guy ran 12.9X on a completely stock (as far as speed mods go) ws6... so im basically looking at shaving 4 seconds from low-flat 13's to low- flat 9's.
my bro is gonna try to hook me up with a 24,000 dollar (after taxes) per year job, where he works at and i have basically no expenses, so in 2 and a half - 3 years i could get 50-60 grand and im sure i will be able to get a good loan, and or have my Rents cosign cuz they outstanding record.

as far as the FI hurting an engine any more then NOs... actually i have seen blocks with NOs used on them(alot) and beaten the crap out of run longer (more miles) then even some supercharged / turbo'd blocks that were takin care of.
basically all I MEANT BY THAT was i dont wanna go overkill and blow the engine before 60,000 miles,
More comments are great!.

as far as no m6's running 9's most 9 cars are auto because they are so into competition and in an Auto car there is NO ROOM FOR ERROR, and you run more consistent times... autos are not in any way faster then standards, and nor do i think standards are faster then autos (after breaking into the 10 second barrier, cuz obviously a weaker car I.E. 15 second car would be faster in STD form)yea i might **** up shifting 14 out of 15 times etc but i do beleive practice makes perfect and i would pull it off eventually at more consistent times...
p.s. in the import world i saw many 9.4 second supras and they were ALL STD EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!

Classic

iTrader: (3)

Well first thing I will say is Harlan's car was/is a 6speed and he was ever so close to that 9 with a 10.00000000000000000.

Now, I am no expert but here is some stuff I have picked up just from what I've seen at the track myself and from what I read on all the forums and books, etc.
You can't just drop a huge motor in a car and expect it to run good times. You need a really well setup suspension. You also need to thing about gearing and tire size etc. There are only 10 million things to think off.

Another thing you have to think of is that you have to be NHRA/IHRA approved to run that low a time in the 1/4. I have no clue what that takes - you'd have to ask the guys running much faster than I do. Running at the track isn't as easy as you might think - especially when you are running slicks, etc. with tons of power and spraying off the line.

If you are serious you should contact MTI, ARE, madman, etc. and speak to them about it.

strokedls1

iTrader: (1)

I think your goal here is completely unrealistic. You don't even know whats up with the metals in the blocks. Biggest iron displacement block is 427 ci, and you are not going to get away with 300 shot on top of that. Things break when you are talking about that much power. If you don't have the budget to replace things then you shouldn't get to that level in the first place. I am putting a 422 ci into my car right now, and I have more money into parts then the car cost me brand new, and this is with me and a couple of my friends doing all the work. The car was stripped to just the body, and everything is being replaced minus the computer and the brake calipers. I am only expecting to run low 11's with this. I think that you should go for a ride in a big block LS1 and feel what a high ten second car is all about. There is nothing on a 9 second civic that came from the factory. Those are just tubular chasis trailor queens. You should spend a couple of years reading before wasting money on something you now very little about. Just my honest opinion though.

rnr27band1

Honestly man by the questions you are asking you arent ready for a 9 sec car. I used to have a honda that had a few mods on it and going from it to a stock ls1 was a major change for me. The first time i floored it in my trans am it was a complete shock in the difference of accleration. You probly just need to get an ls1 swap and start going from there. btw i am just curious as to how old you are, i just turned 20.

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Stick around a while, read alot and learn. You can learn everything you need here to build what you want. The truth is, there aren't very many 9-second LS1s out there simply because there aren't that many people that can afford to put that much money and time into a car. Most of our members use their cars for daily-drivers, not all-out track only type cars.

The faster FWD imports weigh about 2000 lbs max. At the Houston Auto Show this past weekend there was a completely gutted yellow Civic with carbon fiber body panels and lexan windows. Slicks up front, runners out back. Nothing left inside the car but the seat and steering wheel, I mean nothing! I asked what the car ran and the guys that worked the booth said "10s hopefully". I almost started laughing, since it was just a shell of a car.

The current quickest 6-speed F-body (LS1 and LT1) is Roman's 9.9 second car. 422ci on nitrous. There is one 9.9-second manual 4-speed LS1 (Judsons). Gordon has run 10.66 all-motor and I've run 10.67 all-motor with our 6-speeds. I'd have to say my car is the most daily-drivable of the bunch since its basically a full weight car that is primarily a street car. I'm sure I could run 9s on nitrous, but 9.0s is a LOOOONG way to go. Once you get into the 10s, you have to do alot more to knock a tenth off. Its about 3x as difficult as knocking tenths off in the 12s.

Yes, you could build a 9.0 car for $50K if you bought all the correct stuff the first time around and did things the right way.

Most guys give up on the 6-speed for durability reasons or clutch issues when they start running 10s.

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

Ok, after reading all this, some of the stuff might be out of place so I wont remember.

Titanium engine parts for the LS1 does not exist unless its custom made. Even then I can promisse you its gona be 5000+ no matter what part it is. If you wana run 9's, I can tell you right now its no way its gona be reliable. Your first dream of running 8's with a 6speed, have fun shifting every 2 seconds. And you wana do it full weight, say hello to damn near 20 pounds of boost or a 600 pro race NOS brand fogger and nothing less. And your not going to want to get in a daily driver with a full on cage. You dreams are far out right now, the LS1 is still a new engine (my dad still thought it was a SBC). Read on this site for about 6th months and then ask this question, I havent been hear a whole year yet and I know as much as no matter how much traction you get and how good your car is, its all the driver. So really the question is can you handle 700+hp, or 1000hp on a full weight car.