Chris Johnson 00 T/A

Alright, so a post from ls1.com with some excerpts of my problems:

http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread...5&pagenumber=1

Short version:

Post 1:

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Oh my lord folks, my life just got crappy.

Here's the deal:

New everything motor: Rods, pistons, rings, etc, etc. Built it myself in the garage.

It's been driven almost 300 miles since the build.

Yesterday, I was driving the car around without many issues, trying to fix my idle problems. Pulled a stock TB and MAF of a friends car to test on my car to see if the issue was with my parts or not.. blah blah blah.. put my stuff back on, worked fine, drove ~30 miles to drop dinner off for my mom, came home, turned off the car, returned to it about 2 hours later, turned the key, and nothing. I had power, radio worked, lights were all bright, etc. The started just wouldn't move.

Pulled the starter ( at 10:30pm on a Sunday night ) and went to have it tested at the local 24hr parts shop. It was fine.

Reinstalled it, turned the key, and it ran.

I let it do an idle relearn, turned off the key, went inside, got my stuff, and was on my way. ( now ) at this point, I noticed a bit more 'smoke' than normal. ( it burns oil, and runs super freeking rich.. new motor, etc ) but, didn't think about it.

Not but a mile down the road the car over heats ( hit 260 on the cluster ) turned it off and rolled to a stop. Let it cool a bit, started it, let it idle, and I still had lots of 'smoke' from the pipes. Didn't smell much like gas, or oil, but, rather just steam like from when you take a shower. No coolant smell or anything like that.

Drove it back home, let it cool a bit, checked the rad while it was still warm.. shot water out from under the cap all over the floor. The over flow tank was where it should have been, but, I added about 1/2 gallon of water to the rad to replace what I guess came out from the cap.

Closed it up, started it, and looked it over.. drove 50 miles home without any issue.. but, I still have steam coming out from the pipes.

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Few posts later:

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Well, I've already got 300 miles on the new setup, and it sure didn't steam like this.

I did drive it ~50 miles home, and have some sort of fear to go outside and check the oil and start it up. I just don't wanna deal with pulling the motor apart again

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Few more:

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Maybe I'm a bit paranoid.. it doesn't look as bad this morning as it did last night:

http://www.2000transam.com/video/tailpipes.wmv

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Alright, update on the car:

Somethings wrong. Case in point: Car over heated again, we looked in the over flow tank, and it was over flowing. Waited for the car to cool, pulled the cap, and couldn't see water.

We put about a gallon and a half of water in it to fill it.. ran it back up to op. temps, and watched the thing bubble like a kettle.

What I assume is going on, is the air is getting into the coolant causing it to bubble, forcing the water into the over flow tank. That causes an empty rad, and then over heat. *sigh*

I looked at the oil VERY closely, and the oil looks normal. From what I've seen, and understand, the oil turns milky when you get water in it. There is NO water.

Another however.. when I turn the car off, I do get steam out the valve cover and out of the dipstick tube.

The heads are brand new R&R'd from GTP. I doubt that they are cracked.

Anyone have an opinion on head gaskets? I have stock LS1's on them now running 12:1. I can run Z06's, and that will bump me yet again.. but, is there an option like copper?

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Alright, another update with pictures.

I pulled all 8 plugs, and 'smelled' them. They all seem to smell about the same to me, and my GF. The only one that MAY have smelled JUST a bit different, was #3.

If you look at the spark plugs in the picture, top left is #1, top right is #2, all the way down to #7 on the bottom left, and #8 on the bottom right. #5 and #7 had some oil on the plug rings, and #8 seemed to have the most oil on it of them all. Didn't seem like a lot to me. Remember that the motor is new, with new rings and such, and I know it's gonna burn oil. Those plugs, along with the motor, have just under 300 miles on it.

Picture #2 is of the passenger side valve cover. I assume that's the engine lube I used to put the motor together. I was under the impression that it was to 'melt' into the oil, and come out with the first oil change. Anyone ever see something like that before?

Picture #3 is of the #2 cylinder rockers. Note more sludge as well. I can also see ( even in the picture ) little drops of water. As I posted before, I had steam from the valve covers, but, no water on the dipstick.

The drivers side valve cover had some sludge on it, but, maybe about 1/2 as much, and about 1/4 of the sludge in the drivers head.

What are my options now, or what opinions do you have as to my issue?

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And then pictures:

http://www.2000transam.com/catalog/c...d/img_6325.jpg

http://www.2000transam.com/catalog/c...d/img_6328.jpg

http://www.2000transam.com/catalog/c...d/img_6330.jpg

If ANYONE has any ideas, please, share. What a PITA this has been with a new motor and then something's wrong <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ July 10, 2002, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Nine Ball ]</small>

DenzSS

looks like coolant/oil mix to me.

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

I agree with Denz. You definitely have some sort coolant issue going on. Are you sure you installed the head gaskets correctly when putting the motor together? You are using the factory '98-'01 graphite gaskets?

I'd do a leak-down and/or compression test to see what's up.

<small>[ July 10, 2002, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: Jason99T/A ]</small>

Chris Johnson 00 T/A

I guess I can go back and look at my pictures on my gasket install.

One was Left, and one was Right.

For my sanity sake, whats left, and whats right when your on an engine stand?

Chris Johnson 00 T/A

And yes, I'm using stock LS1 gaskets from a GM 'kit' 88894342

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

Left is driver side, right is passenger side. You look at it as if you are sitting in the car.

Toxic Texan

Can you shrink the pics or make them a link. You are killing my DSL. I can't imagine the wait if I was on dial up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> I also agree with the above. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Check the gaskets and if they are ok time for a leakdown test.

Chris Johnson 00 T/A

Is it possible to install them backwards? I thought I had pictures.. but, I don't.

If they were backwards, by looking at the block with the gasket on, would most of the holes all still line up?

I really don't think I installed them wrong, but, it's always possible.

Sorry for the HUGE pictures. I wanted/needed everyone to see details.

Links:

www.2000transam.com/catalog/carbuild/img_6325.jpg
www.2000transam.com/catalog/carbuild/img_6328.jpg
www.2000transam.com/catalog/carbuild/img_6330.jpg

Chris Johnson 00 T/A

Also, I have to pull the heads to see the gaskets, and that means all new bolts and gaskets anyways.

What other areas should I look at, other than head gaskets?

Tin Indian

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris Johnson 00 T/A:
<strong>I guess I can go back and look at my pictures on my gasket install.

One was Left, and one was Right.

For my sanity sake, whats left, and whats right when your on an engine stand?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Left is drivers side

Right is passenger side (valve cover oil fill tube side)

Just like the seats in your car ... Left seat is the drivers... Passenger sits on the right

Bottom line....You have coolant/water mix all thoughout the engine.
Whenever the inside of your engine looks like a milkshake .... You have a blown head gasket, or a head gasket that was installed wrong.

Good luck
Sorry for your problems....

<small>[ July 10, 2002, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: Kimchee and Rice ]</small>

DenzSS

What you're describing sounds almost exactly like a head gasket problem. Generally, with a blown head gasket you'll see a ton of smoke/steam coming out of the tailpipe and the car will overheat big time. Is it possible that you didn't get the heads bolted down tight?

DenzSS

About the only thing it can be is the gaskets. A serious crack in the waterjacket might do it as well.

Chris Johnson 00 T/A

the *ONLY* thing I can think of as to a problem with my heads, is, my engine builder gave me 3 'posts' from a 5.0 block... the ones that you stick in the block, and then sit the heads on. He says that they fit fine and were about the same as the stock ones. I measured the height of the one I had, to the 3 he gave me, and they were the same.

I wonder if it's possible that I have somehow bottomed out that dowel, and it's left a gap between my head and block.

I'm 100% sure I followed the torque specs and angles from the 2000 helms books to the exact degree.

Chris Johnson 00 T/A

Whats the deal with the engine lube? I'm not worried about it, but, shouldn't it have cleaned out, into the oil?

HOWQUICK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris Johnson 00 T/A:
<strong>the *ONLY* thing I can think of as to a problem with my heads, is, my engine builder gave me 3 'posts' from a 5.0 block... the ones that you stick in the block, and then sit the heads on. He says that they fit fine and were about the same as the stock ones. I measured the height of the one I had, to the 3 he gave me, and they were the same.

I wonder if it's possible that I have somehow bottomed out that dowel, and it's left a gap between my head and block.

I'm 100% sure I followed the torque specs and angles from the 2000 helms books to the exact degree.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">when you say posts I assume you are talking about head dowels? If so LS1s have round dowel like a piece of tube that sit in either end and the head stud goes down the middle....early SBC-5.0l had a 1/4" solid dowel that sat in the block either end...won't work on a LS1...man I recon you have some real problems with instal IF Iam on the right track...

Pull them off.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

Chris Johnson 00 T/A

No no.. they are not solid. They look *exactly* like the stock ones I pulled out of the motor... My engine builder said that they came from a Ford 5.0 motor. Thats the only thing I could think of in the way of, other that a bad head gasket, or head gasket install gone wrong, that was 'different' from normal.

I called a few dealers, and I think it's the right side gasket, is on back order from GM.

I posted yesterday on other options and pricing of gaskets, and didn't get much of an answer on where to get cometic or copper gaskets, or if it's even worth the time or money.

TPIS has some that raise the compression .5.. but, with already running about 12:1.. dunno if I wanna do that.

CHRISPY

are you running 12:1 compression with the stock gaskets? If so that is your problem, you are detonating and pushing out the gasket.
I bet 100 bucks that is what it is. Also be very careful coolant in the oil with chew up your bearing VERY quickly.
good luck,
Chris
ps- ARE sells the high quality gaskets for higher comp motors. Give them a call.
Chris

<small>[ July 10, 2002, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>

Trevor @ Texas Speed & Perf.

iTrader: (3)

Have you tried ARE or MTI for new head gaskets?

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

Chris, Thunder stocks the Cometic gaskets. I believe they have some of the stock bore gaskets in stock (almost 100% sure). These are what I'll be using when I install my heads in a few weeks, along w/ the ARP head studs.

Jason

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

Damn, that is a BIG milkshake! Head gaskets would definitely be my guess, like the others. Either that or a cracked cylinder sleeve <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

Good luck on fixing it, I hope its just the gasket.

Hey, aren't you a moderator on LS1.com? Thanks for coming over here for tech help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Tony