MS4 110 Lsa First start up
Originally Posted by XxNaSDaQxX
"Black02SS" Numbers on the difference between LSA seem more real then that of what 4U2BNVS had listed. I would believe this guy hands down.
KrisXpc: Most shops will not flycut the pistons without you going threw all the hassel of getting the pistons out of the motor. Call around and see if you can find someone to do it for you (meanning while the pistons are still in the motor). Or if you want to do it yourself, flycut .100 whie you have the heads off and then run the thinnest gasket you can before you hit the .080 intake/.100 exhaust PTVC mark. That way you can maximixe your quench area which will aid in preventing detonation and will cause a stronger combustion too.
I'm also looking for the other thread which also seemes to have been moved. It speaks about the ms4 cam and different heads which and what will not work and what needs to be done.
"Edit: Found one of the links.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/658713-head-go-my-ms4.html
"
Glad your doing more searching and getting info. BTW TSP response was to stock ls1 heads 241 casting. Also that reply was for a LS2 motor with an MS4 cam which wasnt listed on what LSA. I believe he said later in another thread he went 111LSA +1.
BTW still no response from TSP. Called and Pm'ed.
-J
KrisXpc: Most shops will not flycut the pistons without you going threw all the hassel of getting the pistons out of the motor. Call around and see if you can find someone to do it for you (meanning while the pistons are still in the motor). Or if you want to do it yourself, flycut .100 whie you have the heads off and then run the thinnest gasket you can before you hit the .080 intake/.100 exhaust PTVC mark. That way you can maximixe your quench area which will aid in preventing detonation and will cause a stronger combustion too.
I'm also looking for the other thread which also seemes to have been moved. It speaks about the ms4 cam and different heads which and what will not work and what needs to be done.
"Edit: Found one of the links.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/658713-head-go-my-ms4.html
"
Glad your doing more searching and getting info. BTW TSP response was to stock ls1 heads 241 casting. Also that reply was for a LS2 motor with an MS4 cam which wasnt listed on what LSA. I believe he said later in another thread he went 111LSA +1.
BTW still no response from TSP. Called and Pm'ed.
-J
I want fact from opinion. Concrete evidence.. Im pretty pissed The only requirements I was told I would need were the springs..
This can and will obviously confuse the average joe budget builder..
Reading how TSP handles customer support. Im sure they will swap the Cam.. And hopefully make the customers more aware of the dangers..
Before I decided to purchase this cam I went to a performance shop to price a custom grind to fit my needs, and mods..
After doing much reading I decided I would pay TSP for their research and trial testing for the MS4..
And after all the work of doing a cam swap this comes out..
I hope TSP understands how patient im being..
Well the reason you are allowed to get 110 LSA is because that drop down box is universal. Its easier on the web designer/programmer to just make one box rather than have the box change for each camshaft choice. It sucks, but you should have also checked out the MS4 camshaft only page. Not saying you are to blame because you aren't.
Either way, Im sure theyll be glad to take care of it for you. It just sucks that you have to go through all of the work again.
Either way, Im sure theyll be glad to take care of it for you. It just sucks that you have to go through all of the work again.
Originally Posted by KrisXpc
Thanks NASDAQ..
I want fact from opinion. Concrete evidence.. Im pretty pissed The only requirements I was told I would need were the springs..
This can and will obviously confuse the average joe budget builder..
Reading how TSP handles customer support. Im sure they will swap the Cam.. And hopefully make the customers more aware of the dangers..
Before I decided to purchase this cam I went to a performance shop to price a custom grind to fit my needs, and mods..
After doing much reading I decided I would pay TSP for their research and trial testing for the MS4..
And after all the work of doing a cam swap this comes out..
I hope TSP understands how patient im being..
I want fact from opinion. Concrete evidence.. Im pretty pissed The only requirements I was told I would need were the springs..
This can and will obviously confuse the average joe budget builder..
Reading how TSP handles customer support. Im sure they will swap the Cam.. And hopefully make the customers more aware of the dangers..
Before I decided to purchase this cam I went to a performance shop to price a custom grind to fit my needs, and mods..
After doing much reading I decided I would pay TSP for their research and trial testing for the MS4..
And after all the work of doing a cam swap this comes out..
I hope TSP understands how patient im being..
I’m glad you catch it now instead of later down the road.
As black said, we are only telling ya cause we don’t want ya stranded on the side of the road.
Technically speaking they are right. All you would need would be springs if your running a 112 or 111. On the stock heads (241).
Trust me I wouldn’t know half of this, If I wasn't doing it myself. I’ve been reading the past 2 months looking for peoples errors, trails, and experience.
Reason being, a friend of mine has bought my old motor for his LT1 conversion. And Ive gone bigger, well he wants me to make the old motor better and being the new best bang for the buck/popular cam, it caught my eye. I’ve been doing the research, as I know I will be the only one doing all the work on the car for him.
If you can get a hold of them, just let them know. I haven’t had any luck with any sort of reply by multiple means. So I’m considering a T-rex or one of MTI's new cams, where i can only hope to get the answer i need.
Originally Posted by Matt2105
Well the reason you are allowed to get 110 LSA is because that drop down box is universal. Its easier on the web designer/programmer to just make one box rather than have the box change for each camshaft choice. It sucks, but you should have also checked out the MS4 camshaft only page. Not saying you are to blame because you aren't.
Either way, Im sure theyll be glad to take care of it for you. It just sucks that you have to go through all of the work again.
Either way, Im sure theyll be glad to take care of it for you. It just sucks that you have to go through all of the work again.
I’m only assuming at this point that they removed it and only sell it now via a phone call due to the problems. And so when you call they should or will tell you what you need based on your goals and mods.
EDIT: More info for ya
Originally Posted by JohnJanz@Texas-Speed
As long as you still have the stock valve size and the heads aren't milled any you will not have to flycut.
-J
Last edited by XxNaSDaQxX; Mar 10, 2007 at 06:29 PM.
Originally Posted by XxNaSDaQxX
There isnt an 110 lsa in the drop down box, and I too am a web designer. It doesnt take a whole 2 mins to edit an option in a drop down box for any specific item. I believe when the cam was new it was listed, however I havn't seen it since as 110 being an option. You had to call directly and place the order if you were intrested in a 110 LSA.
I’m only assuming at this point that they removed it and only sell it now via a phone call due to the problems. And so when you call they should or will tell you what you need based on your goals and mods.
EDIT: More info for ya
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ms4+flycutting
-J
I’m only assuming at this point that they removed it and only sell it now via a phone call due to the problems. And so when you call they should or will tell you what you need based on your goals and mods.
EDIT: More info for ya
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ms4+flycutting
-J
You know what happens when you assume...
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=175&catid=49
This is what he ordered-- The cam package, in which you can choose any LSA.
Well good to know, and that one wasn't one I found.
The other link: without the 110 and only 111 and 112 listed.
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=666&catid=20
I now see what you were talking about for their drop down box. It has all their cams listed with all the lsa'a range.
I stand corrected and apologize.
The other link: without the 110 and only 111 and 112 listed.
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=666&catid=20
I now see what you were talking about for their drop down box. It has all their cams listed with all the lsa'a range.
I stand corrected and apologize.
Originally Posted by XxNaSDaQxX
Well good to know, and that one wasn't one I found.
The other link: without the 110 and only 111 and 112 listed.
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=666&catid=20
I now see what you were talking about for their drop down box. It has all their cams listed with all the lsa'a range.
I stand corrected and apologize.
The other link: without the 110 and only 111 and 112 listed.
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=666&catid=20
I now see what you were talking about for their drop down box. It has all their cams listed with all the lsa'a range.
I stand corrected and apologize.
Originally Posted by Matt2105
Yea thats why I said he should have checked out the Cam only page which is what you just linked to. Unfortunately, hindsight is 20/20.
Whats your point about the cam only page? I see the 11 standard and the 112 lsa...
I didnt want a cam only.. I wanted the package.. and when i looked into the package. 110 lsa was an option.
Show me where on the cam only page or the package it says anything about 110 lsa being a call in order.
When I ordered the cam.
I went to the package page first.. Did you eliminate that as a possibility?
In no way do i feel im at fault here.. Every place ive looked.
Everyperson ive asked has said nothing about flycutting untill i posted the after results.
Even when I was a dyno tune session for a friend with jeremy formato. Someone said "Holy **** thats a big cam.. Will it it clear the valves?"
He even said it would... and anyone that knows who jeremy is knows he knows what he is talking about...
Last edited by KrisXpc; Mar 10, 2007 at 07:35 PM.
Originally Posted by KrisXpc
Whats your point about the cam only page? I see the 11 standard and the 112 lsa...
I didnt want a cam only.. I wanted the package.. and when i looked into the package. 110 lsa was an option.
Show me where on the cam only page or the package it says anything about 110 lsa being a call in order.
When I ordered the cam.
I went to the package page first.. Did you eliminate that as a possibility?
In no way do i feel im at fault here.. Every place ive looked.
Everyperson ive asked has said nothing about flycutting untill i posted the after results.
I didnt want a cam only.. I wanted the package.. and when i looked into the package. 110 lsa was an option.
Show me where on the cam only page or the package it says anything about 110 lsa being a call in order.
When I ordered the cam.
I went to the package page first.. Did you eliminate that as a possibility?
In no way do i feel im at fault here.. Every place ive looked.
Everyperson ive asked has said nothing about flycutting untill i posted the after results.
I said that you werent at fault...dont get all defensive. It should be clearly laid out on the cam package page that if you buy a certain cam on a certain LSA you have to flycut. In no way is it your fault, but if you would have checked out the cam page, you would have seen the grinds they offered for it.
Im just saying it was an unfortunate mistake.
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Originally Posted by KrisXpc
Whats your point about the cam only page? I see the 11 standard and the 112 lsa...
Show me where on the cam only page or the package it says anything about 110 lsa being a call in order.
I went to the package page first.. Did you eliminate that as a possibility?
Show me where on the cam only page or the package it says anything about 110 lsa being a call in order.
I went to the package page first.. Did you eliminate that as a possibility?
And I also noted that post was were I was assuming, cause I swear they used to have the 110 listed on thier cam only section. However it wasnt there. I never saw the package page till now, thanks to matt. Never needed all the other parts as I have them already. Since it wasnt placed on the site, I had to call and place the order for the 110+3. Otherwise I had to have a custom grind based on those specs.
-J
Originally Posted by XxNaSDaQxX
You do realize those questions, were from my response, not matts?
And I also noted that post was were I was assuming, cause I swear they used to have the 110 listed on thier cam only section. However it wasnt there. I never saw the package page till now, thanks to matt. Never needed all the other parts as I have them already. Since it wasnt placed on the site, I had to call and place the order for the 110+3. Otherwise I had to have a custom grind based on those specs.
-J
And I also noted that post was were I was assuming, cause I swear they used to have the 110 listed on thier cam only section. However it wasnt there. I never saw the package page till now, thanks to matt. Never needed all the other parts as I have them already. Since it wasnt placed on the site, I had to call and place the order for the 110+3. Otherwise I had to have a custom grind based on those specs.
-J
Me stressing out over it at this point would be pointless.. whats done is done.
My last post came off a little snappy I know. Im just a little heated at myself and TSP's website..
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Regarding flycutting, there is a guy on here called GUITSBOY that did home flycutting with a cheaper approach on tools. He wrote something about it and he is really helpfull sharing his experiences with others. PM him for info on that.
Originally Posted by KrisXpc
In no way do i feel im at fault here.. Every place ive looked.
the first step is to swap over to some tfs 215 heads and a t-rex cam.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Originally posted by Black02SS
KrisXpc... bad news sir.
I just got in touch with TSP.
Tolerences for the MS4 with a 111 LSA are as follows:
.060 on intake and .065 on Exhaust.
Tolerences for the MS4 on a 110 LSA are as follows:
.031 on intake and .036 on exhaust.
I told him it was going in your setup and there was nothing but dead silence on the phone followed by a quick, "Thaaaaat's not good."
I'm telling you, you're skating on thin ice...big time.
Just to put things in perspective, rod bolts can stretch .030 easy.
That cam in your motor = TIME BOMB.
Not being a smart ***, I just don't want to see a fellow f-body owner's motor be destroyed.
KrisXpc... bad news sir.
I just got in touch with TSP.
Tolerences for the MS4 with a 111 LSA are as follows:
.060 on intake and .065 on Exhaust.
Tolerences for the MS4 on a 110 LSA are as follows:
.031 on intake and .036 on exhaust.
I told him it was going in your setup and there was nothing but dead silence on the phone followed by a quick, "Thaaaaat's not good."
I'm telling you, you're skating on thin ice...big time.
Just to put things in perspective, rod bolts can stretch .030 easy.
That cam in your motor = TIME BOMB.
Not being a smart ***, I just don't want to see a fellow f-body owner's motor be destroyed.
Looks like I won't have to eat my cap after all
Krisxpc, just contact Thunder and see about renting some fycutting tools. I'll help you through the steps to do it, it is really simple.
Here is what you need:
1- Flycut tool
2- Hi speed drill
3- Old head with seats removed
4- duct tape
5- shop vaccum a plus
6- Bolts/gaskets and fluid to reinstall heads.
Or see if someone around here will rent theirs.
Or you have no other choice put to yank the cam.
Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
If that is accurate, don't even think about even a spin around the block.
Looks like I won't have to eat my cap after all
Krisxpc, just contact Thunder and see about renting some fycutting tools. I'll help you through the steps to do it, it is really simple.
Here is what you need:
1- Flycut tool
2- Hi speed drill
3- Old head with seats removed
4- duct tape
5- shop vaccum a plus
6- Bolts/gaskets and fluid to reinstall heads.
Or see if someone around here will rent theirs.
Or you have no other choice put to yank the cam.
Looks like I won't have to eat my cap after all
Krisxpc, just contact Thunder and see about renting some fycutting tools. I'll help you through the steps to do it, it is really simple.
Here is what you need:
1- Flycut tool
2- Hi speed drill
3- Old head with seats removed
4- duct tape
5- shop vaccum a plus
6- Bolts/gaskets and fluid to reinstall heads.
Or see if someone around here will rent theirs.
Or you have no other choice put to yank the cam.
http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...mid=53&sid=455
with the hood and cal off will there be enough clearance?
I have a craftsman drill.
Last edited by KrisXpc; Mar 11, 2007 at 11:23 AM.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 14,620
Likes: 17
From: BFE
Originally Posted by KrisXpc
http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...mid=53&sid=455
with the hood and cal off will there be enough clearance?
I have a craftsman drill.
with the hood and cal off will there be enough clearance?
I have a craftsman drill.
Im convinced.. I wish arp head bolt were cheaper though 
Originally Posted by KrisXpc
http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog...mid=53&sid=455
with the hood and cal off will there be enough clearance?
I have a craftsman drill.
with the hood and cal off will there be enough clearance?
I have a craftsman drill.
Originally Posted by braap
I've got a right angle drill if you need to borrow it...
Where are you located? Has any of yuo guys done this before? Advice?
Pics? Referance?
Yes cam swap would probobly be easier. I just like the idea of this challange. Not many people have or will do this. This is a great cam, and I want to use it.
Originally Posted by KrisXpc
If you need any help at all man, ask away! This is all fresh in my mind!
Best advice I can offer!
1.Take your time
2.Do everything right
3.5/16 wooden dowel rods
4.Magnetic pen to pick the locks up from the valvestem
5.loc tite or grease to stick the locks on the valve stem
6.Fishing line on the 10mm oil pickup tube bolt.
7.Moore VS compressor all the way!!
8.Take the oil pump apart to put it back on
9.New timing chain
10. Extra pair of undies! (for startup)
I used a regular plastic straw to find top dead center
Best advice I can offer!
1.Take your time
2.Do everything right
3.5/16 wooden dowel rods
4.Magnetic pen to pick the locks up from the valvestem
5.loc tite or grease to stick the locks on the valve stem
6.Fishing line on the 10mm oil pickup tube bolt.
7.Moore VS compressor all the way!!
8.Take the oil pump apart to put it back on
9.New timing chain
10. Extra pair of undies! (for startup)
I used a regular plastic straw to find top dead center
you forgot several things...
11. oiled twizlers..
12. mac and cheese
13. scott poking you
and 14. making someone else go and get dowls....
you fixed this issue yet?....you realize we have a cruise in two weeks to the beach
you could always just go for a bigger (111-112) LSA cam and we could put that in, in no time....and you could just sell the 110 cam...