my 228/232 cam
03-22-2007, 09:20 AM
#121
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Originally Posted by SSpdDmon
Well, maybe you're not seeing the whole picture. Adding cost to a vehicle is something no OEM wants to do. If they could get rid of the highly sensitive, electronicly metering instrument we dismiss as "the MAF," I'm sure they would have done so by now.
Think of the MAF like the weather man on the local news. It gives the PCM a forecast of incoming airflow. Yeah, you could stick your head out the window and get a good idea of the weather over the next hour or so. But, you need the meteorologist to tell you what the weather's going to be like 3 days from now.
So I say, get the VE close, turn on the MAF and tune with the MAF. The VE doesn't have to be perfect. Hell, even GM fudged the stock VE tables on the stock cars. They weren't perfect. But, they were close enough.
Think of the MAF like the weather man on the local news. It gives the PCM a forecast of incoming airflow. Yeah, you could stick your head out the window and get a good idea of the weather over the next hour or so. But, you need the meteorologist to tell you what the weather's going to be like 3 days from now.
So I say, get the VE close, turn on the MAF and tune with the MAF. The VE doesn't have to be perfect. Hell, even GM fudged the stock VE tables on the stock cars. They weren't perfect. But, they were close enough.
I know they would want to save $$ by not installing them but they did it for $$ reasons, i dont rememebr the full story but that was the jist of it.
And unless the MAF table is calibrated the MAF fueling will still be off, so either way it is just another obstacle in the way, it has no way of correcting itself. I dont get why everyone thinks the MAF is self correcting and measures actual airflow because it does neither of those. All it does is takes a frequency and corropondes those freqs to the MAF table in the PCM to come up with air flow values, if those table values are off so will your fueling, just like how it works in SD.
The correction comes from the oxygen sensors via fuel trims, which also work in SD.
There is no real point from a tuning perspective to keep a MAF when you can do the same thing without it.
Last edited by brad8266; 03-22-2007 at 09:28 AM.
03-22-2007, 09:27 AM
#122
Noticed you are in IL too. I only read the first three pages, but if you're still having problems, why don't you take it to a heavy hitter like LS1Speed? Or, EPP, if they're not that far? They're both within driving distance of me. Surly they could fix the problem.
03-22-2007, 09:29 AM
#123
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Originally Posted by brad8266
I know they would want to save $$ by not installing them but they did it for $$ reasons, i dont rememebr the full story but that was the jist of it.
And unless the MAF table is calibrated the MAF fueling will still be off, so either way it is just another obstacle in the way, it has no way of correcting itself. I dont get why everyone thinks the MAF is self correcting and measures actual airflow because it does neither of those. All it does is takes a frequency and corropondes those freqs to the MAF table in the PCM to come up with air flow values, if those table values are off so will your fueling, just like how it works in SD.
The correction comes from the oxygen sensors via fuel trims, which also work in SD.
There is no real point from a tuning perspective to keep a MAF when you can do the same thing without it.
And unless the MAF table is calibrated the MAF fueling will still be off, so either way it is just another obstacle in the way, it has no way of correcting itself. I dont get why everyone thinks the MAF is self correcting and measures actual airflow because it does neither of those. All it does is takes a frequency and corropondes those freqs to the MAF table in the PCM to come up with air flow values, if those table values are off so will your fueling, just like how it works in SD.
The correction comes from the oxygen sensors via fuel trims, which also work in SD.
There is no real point from a tuning perspective to keep a MAF when you can do the same thing without it.
Either way....this topic is been argued too much already and we're getting way off topic. We'll have to agree to disagree for now.
Last edited by SSpdDmon; 03-22-2007 at 09:40 AM.
03-22-2007, 09:33 AM
#124
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Originally Posted by brad8266
Whats the point of that when you could just run OLSD? I hate MAF's.
FYI all export CHEVY cars run in that mode over here. Super easy to tune.
03-22-2007, 09:35 AM
#125
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Originally Posted by SSpdDmon
Well, you said it yourself. It's still a look-up value in a table. Neither one is self correcting. BUT, the clarity/definition of the MAF table is much greater than the VE table.
thats all, back on topic now, sorry.
03-22-2007, 08:34 PM
#127
Well i officailly threw in the towel. I can not take it anymore. Every mother fuggin stop light/sign i came to the idle dipped 500, 1000, 500, 1000 then idled... EVERY FUGGING TIME 
Still bucks, in 3rd at 2000 RPMs going 30mph the car fells like a tank.. heavy give it any sort of gas and it stutters and hesitates. I GIVE UP!!!
Changed my 02s today, car seems to idle smoother though. and gas milage seems to be better..
Warm start, yea lets not go there. DONE!!!!!
and the IAC will not reset! the grams/cylineder are maxed out. My IAC is fugged. Swapped for a new one, nothing changes. You mess wit the throttle set screw, no more warm start, but then get idle hang.. can not remember if the idle still dips.......
Ohh and i started that car to put it back in the garage (warm start) when it started you could see a cloud of a blueish whitish color of smoke, and at idle you can see it coming out both tail pipes WTF........ I AM DONE WITH THIS CAM
Mike, i will see you April 9th for the stock cam to go back in!!!!!!!!!!!!
ohh and my MAF has 3 wires, talked to my tuner to today, he said that i could ahve pulled the MAF sensor, would have thrown a code but i ahve no idea what it would had accomplished..
Thanks
Still bucks, in 3rd at 2000 RPMs going 30mph the car fells like a tank.. heavy give it any sort of gas and it stutters and hesitates. I GIVE UP!!!Changed my 02s today, car seems to idle smoother though. and gas milage seems to be better..
Warm start, yea lets not go there. DONE!!!!!
and the IAC will not reset! the grams/cylineder are maxed out. My IAC is fugged. Swapped for a new one, nothing changes. You mess wit the throttle set screw, no more warm start, but then get idle hang.. can not remember if the idle still dips.......
Ohh and i started that car to put it back in the garage (warm start) when it started you could see a cloud of a blueish whitish color of smoke, and at idle you can see it coming out both tail pipes WTF........ I AM DONE WITH THIS CAM
Mike, i will see you April 9th for the stock cam to go back in!!!!!!!!!!!!
ohh and my MAF has 3 wires, talked to my tuner to today, he said that i could ahve pulled the MAF sensor, would have thrown a code but i ahve no idea what it would had accomplished..
Thanks
03-22-2007, 08:59 PM
#130
Originally Posted by SSpdDmon
I really wish you would give me a chance first.... 
to be honest there is nothing that you can do that my self and the tuner have alrady tried. He has red this thread, the suggestions that you guys are giving, he has already done them. the problem is that my IAC will not reset.
WHAT ELSE CAN I DO????????????????????????????????
03-22-2007, 09:05 PM
#131
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Originally Posted by TORCHD 02 TA
ohh and my MAF has 3 wires, talked to my tuner to today, he said that i could ahve pulled the MAF sensor, would have thrown a code but i ahve no idea what it would had accomplished..
Thanks
I would suggest taking a stock PCM file and edit the VE table, subtract 30% out of the columns up to 1600 rpm's and in the spark tables add 4 degrees. Then reflash and run without MAF connected and see how it behaves. Its worth a try. I did something similiar and it worked for me. It still will surge a bit but should be bearable. Mine has very little surge, i can cruise at 1400 rpm's and be ok.
Last edited by brad8266; 03-22-2007 at 09:11 PM.
03-22-2007, 09:06 PM
#132
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Originally Posted by TORCHD 02 TA
to be honest there is nothing that you can do that my self and the tuner have alrady tried. He has red this thread, the suggestions that you guys are giving, he has already done them. the problem is that my IAC will not reset.
WHAT ELSE CAN I DO????????????????????????????????
WHAT ELSE CAN I DO????????????????????????????????
There has to be something else wrong for a cam that size to not run right.
03-22-2007, 09:15 PM
#135
Originally Posted by brad8266
With 3 wire MAF all you gotta do is copy the high octane spark table to the low octane spark table and the PCM will run in SD (MAFLESS) as soon as you unplug the MAF. It may very well be worth a try.
I would suggest taking a stock PCM file and edit the VE table, subtract 30% out of the columns up to 1600 rpm's and in the spark tables add 4 degrees. Then reflash and run without MAF connected and see how it behaves. Its worth a try. I did something similiar and it worked for me. It still will surge a bit but should be bearable. Mine has very little surge, i can cruise at 1400 rpm's and be ok.
I would suggest taking a stock PCM file and edit the VE table, subtract 30% out of the columns up to 1600 rpm's and in the spark tables add 4 degrees. Then reflash and run without MAF connected and see how it behaves. Its worth a try. I did something similiar and it worked for me. It still will surge a bit but should be bearable. Mine has very little surge, i can cruise at 1400 rpm's and be ok.
the spark tables have been copied. the car was tuned in closed and open loop.
03-22-2007, 09:18 PM
#136
Originally Posted by brad8266
Is your IAC opened fully already? If it is then it isnt the IAC's fault its maxed out. If that is the case then there is something else that you arent doing.
There has to be something else wrong for a cam that size to not run right.
There has to be something else wrong for a cam that size to not run right.
It is supposed to reset to 310 steps after xtime... Mine only resets to 190 steps.. but if you let the car sit overnight, go and start it up then it is fine..... Mike the tuner maxed the grams per cylinder out. Swapped IACs and nothing changed. The only real thing left to do, is borrow someoned PCM, put the the tune on my car on the borrowed PCM, put into my car and see what comes of it. but i do not know anyone with a PCM right now that is not being used
03-22-2007, 09:21 PM
#137
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Originally Posted by TORCHD 02 TA
yea i would not see why not.. but i am cut on a 110+4
03-22-2007, 09:24 PM
#138
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Originally Posted by TORCHD 02 TA
the spark tables have been copied. the car was tuned in closed and open loop.
Your tuner did add spark didnt he? If so did he add it to your base spark tables as well as the high and low octane spark tables?
03-22-2007, 09:28 PM
#139
Originally Posted by brad8266
The 110 + 4 doesnt matter too much, its a 10 degree overlap mid size cam. I could probably give you my tune and it would work just fine. Too bad my file is an .ls1 file.
yea but the fact that it is so tight on a 106 ICL is not helping.. Plus it has a lot of scavenging to it.....
03-22-2007, 09:38 PM
#140
Originally Posted by brad8266
Open and closed loop are 2 completely different things than Speed Density. if they are copied already then just unplug the MAF and see how it drives, it will set your SES. If it still rides like **** then just plug it back in.
Your tuner did add spark didnt he? If so did he add it to your base spark tables as well as the high and low octane spark tables?
Your tuner did add spark didnt he? If so did he add it to your base spark tables as well as the high and low octane spark tables?
Yes mike siad that they were already copied. but unplugging the MAF what will that due to the car as far as idle and what not? To reset the SES jsut unplugg the - terminal right?
Yes there is spark added 19* up to 1600 RPMs...