my 228/232 cam
#144
Originally Posted by TORCHD 02 TA
Yes mike siad that they were already copied. but unplugging the MAF what will that due to the car as far as idle and what not? To reset the SES jsut unplugg the - terminal right?
Yes there is spark added 19* up to 1600 RPMs...
Yes there is spark added 19* up to 1600 RPMs...
19* WTF??? You need a lot more than that to fix surging. Thats your main problem right there likely. Try something like this, its my half *** blind tune i did to hold me over till i get HPT next week.
23.0 26.0 31.0 34.0 36.0 40.0 43.0
23.0 26.0 31.0 34.0 36.0 40.0 43.0
23.0 26.0 31.0 34.0 36.0 40.0 43.0
23.0 26.0 31.0 34.0 36.0 40.0 40.0
21.0 26.0 32.0 35.0 36.0 38.0 39.0
24.0 27.0 29.0 32.0 33.0 35.0 37.0
28.0 29.5 28.0 31.0 30.0 33.0 35.0
24.0 25.8 24.0 28.0 29.0 32.0 35.0
22.0 24.0 23.0 26.0 28.0 31.0 32.0
20.0 22.0 19.0 24.0 25.0 29.0 31.0
#145
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (39)
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,883
Likes: 2
From: Chicago
Originally Posted by brad8266
All unplugging will do is revert to the low octane table (which you copied) and the car will turn the SES on and you will run in SD. I have been running like that ever since I swapped my engine and ditched the MAF, no problems.
19* WTF??? You need a lot more than that to fix surging.
19* WTF??? You need a lot more than that to fix surging.
any more timing added would make the car buck more..... i will try unplugging the MAF and see what happens
#146
Originally Posted by TORCHD 02 TA
any more timing added would make the car buck more..... i will try unplugging the MAF and see what happens
Big cam = less fuel and more spark advance.
i posted some spark numbers above, if you want my whole table i can give it to you, like i said it is a half *** blind tune to keep it running good at low rpm's only. i didnt bother doing anything else.
#147
Originally Posted by brad8266
Big cam = less fuel and more spark advance.
Here is a thread that might help you get started on fixing your problem.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10978
#148
Here are some of my tables to give you an idea of what yours should resemble somewhat, my car runs fine too, even though the tables could use some adjustments for optimum performance.
With timing like you mentioned Jonas that car with that cam will never idle or even drive right, i bet its bucking like crazy now that you told me how much timing you are running. It would be driving me nuts man. Turn that timing up a lot and pull the fuel and you will feel an instant change.
My tables need some real tuning by far, but it runs fine and is pleasurable to drive around town like this and it gives me great warm starts. I will tune it right next week after i get HPT, so for now this is what i got.
IAC Park:
33.00 28.00 23.00 21.00 21.00 21.00 21.00 21.00 21.00 21.00
Idle running airflow in gear:
22.00 19.00 15.20 12.20 10.40 8.60 8.60 8.60 8.60 8.60
VE table, i have 2000 PCM so i have a secondary table, map goes from 20 to 100 in increments of 10 and rpm is from 400-1600 in increments of 400 rpm's. Scale it accordingly to your VE table. I went really low here since the cam wanted to force the car to keep adding fuel, going this low got me a nice lean idle, just how i like it.
397 615 754 1108
468 698 870 1279
511 756 911 1334
537 790 952 1389
590 825 951 1371
610 853 985 1418
632 881 1018 1463
659 916 1076 1528
702 974 1128 1601
Spark table up to 1600 rpm and .4 Gms/cyl
23.0 26.0 31.0 34.0 36.0 40.0 43.0
23.0 26.0 31.0 34.0 36.0 40.0 43.0
23.0 26.0 31.0 34.0 36.0 40.0 43.0
23.0 26.0 31.0 34.0 36.0 40.0 40.0
21.0 26.0 32.0 35.0 36.0 38.0 39.0
24.0 27.0 29.0 32.0 33.0 35.0 37.0
28.0 29.5 28.0 31.0 30.0 33.0 35.0
24.0 25.8 24.0 28.0 29.0 32.0 35.0
22.0 24.0 23.0 26.0 28.0 31.0 32.0
base spark in park
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
21.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
base spark in drive
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
21.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
25.0 25.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
24.0 24.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
With timing like you mentioned Jonas that car with that cam will never idle or even drive right, i bet its bucking like crazy now that you told me how much timing you are running. It would be driving me nuts man. Turn that timing up a lot and pull the fuel and you will feel an instant change.
My tables need some real tuning by far, but it runs fine and is pleasurable to drive around town like this and it gives me great warm starts. I will tune it right next week after i get HPT, so for now this is what i got.
IAC Park:
33.00 28.00 23.00 21.00 21.00 21.00 21.00 21.00 21.00 21.00
Idle running airflow in gear:
22.00 19.00 15.20 12.20 10.40 8.60 8.60 8.60 8.60 8.60
VE table, i have 2000 PCM so i have a secondary table, map goes from 20 to 100 in increments of 10 and rpm is from 400-1600 in increments of 400 rpm's. Scale it accordingly to your VE table. I went really low here since the cam wanted to force the car to keep adding fuel, going this low got me a nice lean idle, just how i like it.
397 615 754 1108
468 698 870 1279
511 756 911 1334
537 790 952 1389
590 825 951 1371
610 853 985 1418
632 881 1018 1463
659 916 1076 1528
702 974 1128 1601
Spark table up to 1600 rpm and .4 Gms/cyl
23.0 26.0 31.0 34.0 36.0 40.0 43.0
23.0 26.0 31.0 34.0 36.0 40.0 43.0
23.0 26.0 31.0 34.0 36.0 40.0 43.0
23.0 26.0 31.0 34.0 36.0 40.0 40.0
21.0 26.0 32.0 35.0 36.0 38.0 39.0
24.0 27.0 29.0 32.0 33.0 35.0 37.0
28.0 29.5 28.0 31.0 30.0 33.0 35.0
24.0 25.8 24.0 28.0 29.0 32.0 35.0
22.0 24.0 23.0 26.0 28.0 31.0 32.0
base spark in park
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
21.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
base spark in drive
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
21.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
22.0 26.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
25.0 25.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
24.0 24.0 26.0 26.0 32.0
Last edited by brad8266; 03-22-2007 at 10:21 PM.
#149
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (39)
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,883
Likes: 2
From: Chicago
thanks for all your help here brad. I am sure that tuner is reading this which is not a problem. I do not want to name any names. If he wants to respond he can... But i am sure he sees and prolyl has tried this, as for my timing goes, maybe i do have more, i could be mistaking i would have to ask him...
i will get back to you..
i will get back to you..
#151
Thread Starter
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (39)
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 7,883
Likes: 2
From: Chicago
Originally Posted by brad8266
No you have it *** backwards, too less timing will cause bucking, you add spark advance on the low end with a cam to stop bucking. Who is doing the tuning if you dont mind? Is it someone well known here? Sorry if your tuner reads this but if he is pulling timing on the low end with a cam like that then he has no idea how to tune. I hope he isnt adding fuel either because you should be pulling fuel down low.
Big cam = less fuel and more spark advance.
i posted some spark numbers above, if you want my whole table i can give it to you, like i said it is a half *** blind tune to keep it running good at low rpm's only. i didnt bother doing anything else.
Big cam = less fuel and more spark advance.
i posted some spark numbers above, if you want my whole table i can give it to you, like i said it is a half *** blind tune to keep it running good at low rpm's only. i didnt bother doing anything else.
#153
Originally Posted by TORCHD 02 TA
Brad i had 29* of timing in the car, but the bucking was unbearable. Took it down to 19* and got rid a lot of bucking.....
#154
Originally Posted by NBM2001Z28
Everyone that comes thru here knows me and knows I will make Mike spend as much time as needed on something to drive and start as well as the modifications allow. Jays, Crawlin WS6, car did have a Trex, which idled at 880 RPM's in drive, barely had any idle surge, you could give it throttle and then stand on the brakes and it would catch itself and that is on a 110 LSA. Not a 110+4, for how good the 228/232 drives in Jonas's car, I'd be very happy with it if it were mine.
No one here has the same cam as him, or anything with a 110+4. 112 and 114 LSA cams are VERY different then these. Most of the guys that I have read in this thread that say they can tune it, sound like it would be their first time. The guy that says the 02's dont have anything to do with a cam swap and running right... < - - Ill leave it at that.
No one here has the same cam as him, or anything with a 110+4. 112 and 114 LSA cams are VERY different then these. Most of the guys that I have read in this thread that say they can tune it, sound like it would be their first time. The guy that says the 02's dont have anything to do with a cam swap and running right... < - - Ill leave it at that.
#160
Originally Posted by davidtomasiewicz
Are you an auto or 6sp? I got the same cam coming this week only with a 112+2 Lsa!