J-Rod

Just got a link to Darton sleves. It is my understanding that LPE is in the process of evaluating these "modular" sleeves for their LS1 program. These are supposed to have increased in deck strength.

Cartek is allegedly using them already.

Ed Potter from LPE is on the Corvette forum and was asking if anyone was interested in discussing sleeves with him. He was looking for the more "hardcore" crowd.

Thread on Corvetteforum.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=428845

Darton sleeve

http://www.darton-international.com/mid.htm

http://www.darton-international.com/main_fr.htm

C_Williams

Interested in pricing

<small>[ November 11, 2002, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: C5Corvette ]</small>

SIR

As far as I know LPE is using them and Ed states that he really wants to push this product.So maybe they will price them more competitively. Cartek has priced the basic block 4.125 resleeve(withy our core) at $2699.The price increase with options such as line hone, cteel caps, plate hone, etc...
intel55 on the corvette forum

J-Rod

Interesting... But $2699 seems a bit steep. But, I would like to see some more info on this...

robertbartsch

i saw the picture that julio from cartek posted ...it looked complicated...i also checked the manufacturors' cite...apparently darton does alot of this work ...it is their only business..

If it were not for the core requirement, $2,600 would be tempting...seems high to me.

Ed Potter @ LPE

iTrader: (1)

Hi Guys -
Sorry I didn't get on this thread yesterday, but I had a few things going on. So, what kind of questions does everybody have? I'm sure strength is a concern. This is a sleeve system, each sleeve has a thick landing at the top, which has 2 purposes. It has a channell machined in for coolant transfer around the top of the cylinder, and, when all 4 sleeves are pressed in, the landing area on the tops of the sleeves, basically replace the material that was removed during machining. This makes a much more rigid block than a standard sleeve, since so much material must be removed from the LS1 block.
Leaking is not a concern with these sleeves, as they use a double "O" ring on the lower OD of the sleeve. Blok-fill is unnecessary with these sleeves.When the heads are bolted back on, they in turn "crush fit" the sleeves into final position. This is a very strong system, in fact, it's the same type that we use in John's 1000HP aluminum 4cyl.! We do all of our block conversions on CNC block equipment, and include line hone, and CNC rod clearence. We can do it on a core block and sell it outright, or on an exchange basis with your own block. Let me know what you guys think.
Ed

C_Williams

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ed Potter @ LPE:
<strong>Hi Guys -
We can do it on a core block and sell it outright, or on an exchange basis with your own block. Let me know what you guys think.
Ed</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ed,

Pricing and delivery, please - both with and without core. thanks

Fulton 1

iTrader: (9)

I'd also be interested in pricing on a 4.125" bore block. If the reliability is as advertised and price is reasonable then this may be a nice alternative for building a 427.

jfm

iTrader: (4)

Ed,please provide us with a price on re-sleeved block only with and without core.

I e-mailed Darton and they said an LS1 re-sleeve kit would be $1320.

Darton will install kit for $1200.

$1320 sleeve kit + $1200 Darton install + $600 LS1 core = $3120 plus shipping.

<small>[ November 12, 2002, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: jfm ]</small>

Joe Kizzire

I've seen them and inspected them close up in and out of a block. Actually they have some advantages over a C5-R block. It is a wet sleeve that drops in the counterbore just as in a Detroit Diesel. The original cylinder walls are completely removed then the sleeves are installed interlocking with each other forming a new deck and then the heads hold the sleeves in the block. If you damage a sleeve just install a new one, bore and hone to size and away you go again.

So actually you have a baby Rodeck block!!!

JS

iTrader: (4)

Just Call Julio at Cartek..
There pricing is VERY competative on this block..

Better make sure your using a qualified person thats installed these liners on a consitant basis.
I can tell u this,Carteks being doin LOT of R&D along w/LPE on this setup...

Everyone else is playing catch up...
JS

Nasty N8

iTrader: (33)

Nasty Performance also testing Darton Sleeving. We will see how it works and get some pricing out.

Nate

Joe Kizzire

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JS:
<strong>Just Call Julio at Cartek..
Everyone else is playing catch up...
JS</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not really..... "The Beast' was running a Darton sleeve block at the Thunder Shootout. There's five more sets going in engines as we speak in Houston, Tx.

PS.... It ain't MTI......

JS

iTrader: (4)

All I'm saying is LPE and Cartek were one of the 1st to use these liners.Just becasue Cartek or LPE didnt show their HAND until now doesnt mean that they werent testing them LONG before most other shops did.

Its all good Joe,I know those TX guys are at the forefront of the LS1 community.

FWIW
Judson and PatrickG both have given me alot of helpul info.Good bunch of guys down there in TX.

I looked at these style blocks tonight.Carteks got a few of them in stock.They are BEAUTIFUL and IMO the only way to go.Anything else is junk compaired to this way of doing the liners....

Someday when I have Terrys money perhaps a 455 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Just kiddin Terry...

JS

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ed Potter @ LPE:
<strong>Hi Guys -
So, what kind of questions does everybody have? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi Ed,

We apprecate your willness to answer a few questions. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

How strong is a Darton resleeve compared to a stock LS1/LS6 block?

I've been told sometimes resleeve blocks won't always seal good at the bottom of piston travel is that an issue with the Darton?

Most of the time we hear a resleeved block isn't very receptive to NOS. How much can we reasonable spray on a Darton?

Is this sort of block suited to a daily driver type car? Can it survive constant heat cycling without having a liner shift?

What sort of warranty does LPE offer?

It would appear clamping force on the cylinder head would be extra critical to secure the liners. Should the block be studded for best results?

What's the max over bore, you currently think the Darton's can support?

Are special head gaskets required?

Do the heads require special prep to work this this block?

Do the liners change the sound?

Thanks for your time.

<small>[ November 12, 2002, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: 99 Black Bird T/A ]</small>

One Monkey

ED didn't LPE use LSM blocks... Not anymore???

thanks.

Will Race 4 Food

Ed,

Can you do a 4.200" sleeve deal??

Ed Potter @ LPE

iTrader: (1)

99 black bird T/A -
I'll try my best, here we go:
I would say that a Darton sleeve system is stronger than a factory casting, since the flanges at the top of the sleeves create a new deck, that is thicker than the original.
The Dorton sleeves use a double "O" ring seal, which is much better than the previous press fit with sealer method. I've even heard of shops using block filler to solve this!
I'm not an expert on NOS(personally don't believe in it!) but these are the same type of sleeves that John runs in his 1000 hp aluminum 4 cyl Ecotec engine. It regularly sees insane amounts of boost(30+psi) and never had an issue with the sleeves.
Due to the modular design, the liners cannot shift in the block.Each sleeve has a flat register at the top, which prevents it from rotating.
As always, LPE will stand behind it's work, however, there is no specific warranty on the block conversion. If we do the work, and assemble the engine, it would carry our standard 30 day warranty.
I would recommend studding the block for an all out race effort, however, if your considering building one of these for street use, it isn't necessary.
The current sleeve is maxed out at 4.125", but Darton will be releasing a 4.155" sleeve soon.
The block conversion does not require any changes to heads or special head gaskets, but I would recommend using Cometic MLS gaskets, as they have proven to be the best available.
LS1's have always been known for piston noise, but these sleeves do seem to quiet that down a little, but you can still hear it.
Hope this helps.
Ed

AP-Engineering

Ed - What is the thickness of the sleeve after it has been bored and honed to 4.125? How much material is left?

Thanks,
Chris Gelineau
Diamond Pistons
877-552-2112 toll free

cgfirehawk

iTrader: (2)

Hey Ed, just out of curiousity if I were to use a stock crank what would the cubic inch be for an LS1 with the 4.125" sleeves and would the stock piston be used or replaced with larger ones in diameter?

Thanks, Carl.