232/236 114 110 XE-R Track Results
11-24-2002, 09:42 PM
#1
232/236 114 110 XE-R Track Results I now have been to the track a couple times with the big cam, and the results were disappointing. Despite what felt like a nice SOTP gain on the top end, track MPH did not improve, when the DA is controlled for. My previous cam was an XE-R 224/224 114 cam. My comparison is based on good weather at Cecil (DA around +400 or sightly worse) and this past Saturday at Cecil (DA of at least -1000 and a tail wind).
The only other change between runs was the addition of a BMR torque arm and Yank crossmember TA mount. I was having problems hooking up yesterday, (although a couple weeks ago I was cutting good 60's with the exact same set-up) so I have not considered ET to be a valid comparison.
I did not redyno tune the car following the new cam, but I did experiment at the previous track visit (MIR) with shift points and timing.
The 224 cam had six passes with MPH ranging from 117.03 to 117.55 (+400 DA) The 232 cam had three passes with MPH ranging 117.49 to 118.27 (-1000 DA). [Due to clock problems, I had other passes such as a 9.101 @ 36.64 that are not included. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ]
I had similar results at MIR with mph in the 116.5 range (negative DA but occasional light rain) although on that I day I did run an 11.57 which beat the 11.58 best on my 224 cam.
Wade at ARE has told me that they have had good results from this cam with their newer set-ups. I believe those are 5.3 heads with higher compression than my LS1 heads. With the right set-up, this would probably a great cam for an M6 with 4.10s, but I think I'll probably move on to something new.
I realize that maybe the A/F needed to be tweaked, but I doubt there is 2 mph there which I would have hoped for on day with mineshaft weather and a tailwind.
The only other change between runs was the addition of a BMR torque arm and Yank crossmember TA mount. I was having problems hooking up yesterday, (although a couple weeks ago I was cutting good 60's with the exact same set-up) so I have not considered ET to be a valid comparison.
I did not redyno tune the car following the new cam, but I did experiment at the previous track visit (MIR) with shift points and timing.
The 224 cam had six passes with MPH ranging from 117.03 to 117.55 (+400 DA) The 232 cam had three passes with MPH ranging 117.49 to 118.27 (-1000 DA). [Due to clock problems, I had other passes such as a 9.101 @ 36.64 that are not included. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ]
I had similar results at MIR with mph in the 116.5 range (negative DA but occasional light rain) although on that I day I did run an 11.57 which beat the 11.58 best on my 224 cam.
Wade at ARE has told me that they have had good results from this cam with their newer set-ups. I believe those are 5.3 heads with higher compression than my LS1 heads. With the right set-up, this would probably a great cam for an M6 with 4.10s, but I think I'll probably move on to something new.
I realize that maybe the A/F needed to be tweaked, but I doubt there is 2 mph there which I would have hoped for on day with mineshaft weather and a tailwind.
11-24-2002, 10:41 PM
#3
TECH Regular
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: 232/236 114 110 XE-R Track Results That is a pretty significant jump in cam size. Did you degree the cam in? If so, what is the intake center line? Moving up like that is definitely going to move your powerband up at the expense of your midrage.
A cam like that is going to like alot of gear and a 4500 TC. I'd also shift it a 200-300 RPMs higher than you did with the 224.
Tim
A cam like that is going to like alot of gear and a 4500 TC. I'd also shift it a 200-300 RPMs higher than you did with the 224.
Tim
11-25-2002, 06:08 AM
#4
TECH Addict
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: 232/236 114 110 XE-R Track Results The same cam on a 112 LS, sure puts down some good dyno # in my auto, I believe it was 385/440 HP/TQ.
Good luck on your next selection.
Good luck on your next selection.
11-25-2002, 08:30 AM
#5
TECH Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: 232/236 114 110 XE-R Track Results Ragtop you need to LS1 edit the car with that cam. I gained 24RWHP and 15RWTQ with LS1 edit tuning when I switched from 226/234 112 to 230/230 112LSA.
You will likely pick up 10-15RWHP with tuning I suspect. Plus you can run more timing with that cam than the 224/224 XE-R.
You are the ONLY car I have heard of with 346 cubes running 11.5's@118mph at 3800 FREAKING POUNDS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
That is flying dude. High 10's@123+mph with a raceweight of 3300 pounds <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Get the car tuned in and rehit the track <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Chris
<small>[ November 25, 2002, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>
You will likely pick up 10-15RWHP with tuning I suspect. Plus you can run more timing with that cam than the 224/224 XE-R.
You are the ONLY car I have heard of with 346 cubes running 11.5's@118mph at 3800 FREAKING POUNDS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
That is flying dude. High 10's@123+mph with a raceweight of 3300 pounds <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Get the car tuned in and rehit the track <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Chris
<small>[ November 25, 2002, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>
11-25-2002, 09:16 AM
#6
Re: 232/236 114 110 XE-R Track Results To answer the questions:
4 degrees of advance ground in, installed straight up.
Tim: I have a 4200 stall that holds 5600/5700 rpm on the upshift. I have 3.73s, but 4.10s would be better. However, the 224 cam would have also benefited from 4.10s too, but maybe not as much.
I have tried raising the shift points to as high as 7000 rpm w/o any conclusive success.
Chris: I did increase the timing when I was at MIR, increasing it until I started to get 1 degree of consistent knock retard, and then I backed off 1 degree. There could be 10 HP in A/F, maybe 15 if this cam likes to be leaner than the 224 cam. That would probably give me 1 mph more, but I expected to see 2 mph. The weather was pretty similar to the day you ran 124 mph with the Powerdyne; sunny, cold and a tailwind.
4 degrees of advance ground in, installed straight up.
Tim: I have a 4200 stall that holds 5600/5700 rpm on the upshift. I have 3.73s, but 4.10s would be better. However, the 224 cam would have also benefited from 4.10s too, but maybe not as much.
I have tried raising the shift points to as high as 7000 rpm w/o any conclusive success.
Chris: I did increase the timing when I was at MIR, increasing it until I started to get 1 degree of consistent knock retard, and then I backed off 1 degree. There could be 10 HP in A/F, maybe 15 if this cam likes to be leaner than the 224 cam. That would probably give me 1 mph more, but I expected to see 2 mph. The weather was pretty similar to the day you ran 124 mph with the Powerdyne; sunny, cold and a tailwind.
11-25-2002, 09:37 AM
#7
TECH Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: 232/236 114 110 XE-R Track Results hehe the good ole Cecil in November days <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I would kill to get a day like that up here. sticky track, awesome baro, good wind. <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris
I would kill to get a day like that up here. sticky track, awesome baro, good wind. <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris
Trending Topics
11-25-2002, 11:55 AM
#8
TECH Regular
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: 232/236 114 110 XE-R Track Results You need to get a handle on where the intake centerline really is. I would retard the cam 2-4 degrees. The 110 LSA combined with the 4 degrees of advance is really hurting the top end power.
Tim
Tim
11-25-2002, 01:42 PM
#10
Re: 232/236 114 110 XE-R Track Results Ragtop I must have missed something.. I am by far the wrong person to question cam dynamics, but you did say 110 intake centerline correct? If so, how is your cam have 4 degrees of advance built in if you installed it straight up? Can someone explain this to me?
11-25-2002, 01:46 PM
#11
Re: 232/236 114 110 XE-R Track Results Tim its a 114LSA +4 I believe?
That would put it in at 110ICL assuming its straight up...
Good info Joel...I tried different shift points too on my Cartek XE-R 224-573 113LSA cam and it didnt matter where I shifted it as long as it was above 6500.
From testing we decided 6700 was perfect for my car and thats where I shift it now...
JS
<small>[ November 25, 2002, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>
That would put it in at 110ICL assuming its straight up...
Good info Joel...I tried different shift points too on my Cartek XE-R 224-573 113LSA cam and it didnt matter where I shifted it as long as it was above 6500.
From testing we decided 6700 was perfect for my car and thats where I shift it now...
JS
<small>[ November 25, 2002, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>
11-25-2002, 02:05 PM
#12
Re: 232/236 114 110 XE-R Track Results </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JS:
<strong>Tim its a 114LSA +4 I believe?
That would put it in at 110ICL assuming its straight up...
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yup. I will double check the cam card when I get home to be sure.
<strong>Tim its a 114LSA +4 I believe?
That would put it in at 110ICL assuming its straight up...
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yup. I will double check the cam card when I get home to be sure.
11-25-2002, 03:58 PM
#13
Re: 232/236 114 110 XE-R Track Results The reason why I was wondering was because my 232/226 XE-R lsa 110 with 0 advance is 110 ICL. I checked my cam card and that is what it says..
<small>[ November 25, 2002, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: VINCE ]</small>
<small>[ November 25, 2002, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: VINCE ]</small>
11-25-2002, 04:38 PM
#14
TECH Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: 232/236 114 110 XE-R Track Results </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VINCE:
<strong>The reason why I was wondering was because my 232/226 XE-R lsa 110 with 0 advance is 110 ICL. I checked my cam card and that is what it says..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Cam card is correct Vince. If you had gotten 4 degrees advance ground in you would install it on a 106 ICL dot to dot.
cheers,
Chris
<strong>The reason why I was wondering was because my 232/226 XE-R lsa 110 with 0 advance is 110 ICL. I checked my cam card and that is what it says..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Cam card is correct Vince. If you had gotten 4 degrees advance ground in you would install it on a 106 ICL dot to dot.
cheers,
Chris
11-25-2002, 04:50 PM
#15
TECH Regular
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: 232/236 114 110 XE-R Track Results Whoops sorry about that... I responded while I was at work today. Regardless... I'd retard the cam to a 112 or 114 centerline.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Tim
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Tim
11-25-2002, 05:28 PM
#16
LS1Tech Co-Founder
iTrader: (34)
Re: 232/236 114 110 XE-R Track Results Probably need more converter and possibly more gear to really make that cam work, I had a 236/240//111 once it was sick but I had to really get up there in rpms.
11-25-2002, 08:43 PM
#17
Re: 232/236 114 110 XE-R Track Results Yup <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
114 LSA 110 Intake Center Line
Lift .595 / .601
PSJ: For ET, I may need more converter, but not for mph. I only lost 13 rwhp unlocked and I hold 5600/5700 rpm on the upshifts which is a pretty sweet area on the cam (between peak TQ and peak HP)
Tim: With no advance, I'll bet peak TQ would occur so high that my ET would go down unless I went to a 5000 stall converter.
114 LSA 110 Intake Center Line
Lift .595 / .601
PSJ: For ET, I may need more converter, but not for mph. I only lost 13 rwhp unlocked and I hold 5600/5700 rpm on the upshifts which is a pretty sweet area on the cam (between peak TQ and peak HP)
Tim: With no advance, I'll bet peak TQ would occur so high that my ET would go down unless I went to a 5000 stall converter.
