99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

I can't decide if I should replace the oil pump or not.

If there are ~100,000 LS1's with factory oil pumps. Some have failed at maybe 250?

That would put the odds of a factory pump failing at around 1 in 400 if my guessitmates are fairly close.

I know ARE and Katech both sell clearance oil pumps. I know both have had at least one of their oil pumps fail. I'm guessing together ARE and Katech have not sold a total of 800 clearanced oil pumps to the general public.

At least two aftermarket oil pumps failed out of few than 800 units. That would imply that the aftermarket oil pumps have a higher failure rate than the factory unit.

Anyone have an idea of how many clearance oil pumps have been sold? How many have failed? Who sold the ones that failed?

I'm not bashing any shop, just trying to find data so I can make a good choice. Stastically, right now the aftermarket oil pumps seem more risky than keeping my stock oil pump.

Comments and suggestions appreciated.

jimmyblue

iTrader: (11)

I don't think you have enough sample size on
the aftermarket pumps to determine that their
failure rate is significantly different from
the OEM population. If you only have 2
failure anecdotes, anyway.

I also don't think you can say the two
populations are seeing the same service
conditions. A lot more people here pushing
the engine harder, raising rev limits and
spending more time at them, etc. Plus,
any issues with the shade tree vs factory
installation, the extra shaft stress of
running a higher pressure / higher volume
output, ....

Without knowing the root cause of failure
(materials, installation, stress beyond
designed limits) you can't say which failures
(in either population) speak to the inherent
quality and the consistency of quality of
the parts.

I don't know nuthin' from nuthin' about the
oil pumps, but they tried to teach me about
statistics.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

Jimmy,

Pretty much the same here, I know a little about stats etc and realize the sample size is pretty small and the conditions are somewhat different.

I am intrested in any data anyone can help provided.

BTW I ordered the Katech oil pump today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Anyone else have ideas or comments?

Fairway

Get a new oil pump I found out the hard way A.R.E or Katech if you are going to do heads and cam 150 dollars is better then 7000 thousand.

JAY4SPEED

I don't know if this would help your or not. Out of the thousands Gen3 engines that come through our shop {4.8,5.3,5.7,6.0}, I have only seen 1 oil pump failure {OEM equipment} since they have came out. It was on a '02 Tahoe wich had a defective unit installed from the factory, the truck had 3 miles on it. It came off the delivery truck with rod knocks. We found the pump ring cracked. Now this is OEM engines with no mods for the most part that don't usually see 7,000 rpms regularly. In my opinion, I believe they are very reliable. I have little experience with the aftermarket pump so I cannot comment on which is better. I guess what I'm trying to say is if the aftermarket pumps are better than the OEM pumps, OEM pumps arent bad at all!

Jay

Superman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JAY4SPEED:
<strong>I don't know if this would help your or not. Out of the thousands Gen3 engines that come through our shop {4.8,5.3,5.7,6.0}, I have only seen 1 oil pump failure {OEM equipment} since they have came out. It was on a '02 Tahoe wich had a defective unit installed from the factory, the truck had 3 miles on it. It came off the delivery truck with rod knocks. We found the pump ring cracked. Now this is OEM engines with no mods for the most part that don't usually see 7,000 rpms regularly. In my opinion, I believe they are very reliable. I have little experience with the aftermarket pump so I cannot comment on which is better. I guess what I'm trying to say is if the aftermarket pumps are better than the OEM pumps, OEM pumps arent bad at all!

Jay</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly why I left the stocker in the car..

Sears

I've never had a problem with the stock pump. As long as the oil pressure is good and consistent I would leave it alone.

I say stock, but I actually have a 2001 LS6 pump. IDK if they are differnt, just letting you know.

Justin

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

My cars stock oil pump has never waviered oil pressure always good.

Thanks to everyone responding so far.

Please keep the comments coming.

Hardtop

iTrader: (3)

Had good oil pressure with my stock pump before H/C swap so I saw no reason to change it. Still have good pressure after the swap. No change at all. If it ain't broke don't fix it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Bruce

jmX

Guys, its not about oil pressure waivering, its about one day, a perfectly working pump going dead. Sure, my bone stock ones always worked fine, but who's to say they weren't ticking timebombs? I have a friend that had his oil pump die *twice*, both times GM installed a brand new LS1 in his car....and that was within 40k miles. The pump worked flawlessly except those two times when it just failed to build pressure on startup.

As far as failures go, only a very small sampling of LS1 owners are on the internet. The 3 people I know that have had their oil pumps died aren't on this board, nor are they on other LS1 boards. However, 95% of the people that buy products from ARE/Katech *are* on here and thus you are much more likely to hear when their product has a failure. This is why you can't compare like you did, the demographics are totally different.

As for me, I'm pretty convinced GM took care of the casting flash issue for the most part and I'd probably feel 100% fine putting a 2003 OEM pump from a dealership in my car, or any 2001 model car or older.

ChrisG

I have heard the gauges in our cars are not all that accurate. My oil gauge is now starting to read below 40 psi. At idle it now sits a little above the first white line on the gauge,which if im not mistaken would be about 20 or so and cruising on the freeway it gets just over 40 psi. Im going to get it changed soon because like someone said earlier i would rather spend more than that on a new engine.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

For sure it's hard to get good sample size from just what's on the board with stock oil pumps and aftermarekt. I'm not really sure I can find any hard numbers to support either. However, JMX personally knowing THREE occurances of oil pump failure is pretty scary stuff!

I agree spending $110 for a Katech oil pump isn't a budget buster.

Are the oil pumps most prone to fail on start up? Or start up on a cold day?

When I talked with Katech, the guys was like:"The casting flash is cleaned up by hand, so there always the posibility something can go wrong even on our oil pumps or anyone else's." I know he was being open and honest but it wasn't reassuring after hearing that to put the Katech on the car instead of the stock one. On the plus side the Katech doesn't increase pressure so it won't rob any more power than the stock pump.

Since my Katech hasn't arrived yet, would it be worth taking it apart and mangafluxing (or something similar) the body to make sure it's free of cracks and stuff after clean up?

I've heard of one that as ground to thin and it cracked?

Bugblndr

Based on my experience, they just fail. On a nice sunny summer day, I went for a cruise and all was well. The next morning I started the car to zero oil pressure.

383ss

iTrader: (14)

I had an ARE pump that was bad almost right away. wouldn't hold oil pressure at idle or have any when it was first started. Changed to Katech and had no problems.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 383ss:
<strong>I had an ARE pump that was bad almost right away. wouldn't hold oil pressure at idle or have any when it was first started. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What was wrong with the oil pump?

Fulton 1

iTrader: (9)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jmX:
Guys, its not about oil pressure waivering, its about one day, a perfectly working pump going dead. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yup, that's how it was with mine. Around 7000 miles on the car and wife gets in and starts it. Oil pressure never comes up. Shut down, wait, restart with same results. Since it was under warranty and I hadn't done much to the car I tried again and this time pressure did come up after about 2 seconds or so. Called the dealership and they blew it off. Said they'd NEVER heard of an LS1 oil pump going bad and told me that if it happens again to call. This was long after I'd heard of failure problems and saw the internal GM memo posted on LS1.com. Because of this I had been monitoring the pressure on startup.

Although it behaved normally after this incident, I decided to have mine replaced with a 2001 pump (there were no Katech or ARE pumps available at that time) as a precaution since it had no reported failures that I was aware of at the time. I suppose it could've been the gage, but it had never done it before. I didn't want to wait until some Sunday night in BFE to find out either. The 2001 pump worked flawlessly for the 4000 miles I had it, at which time I replaced it with a Katech-modified pump. Both the stock 2001 pump and the Katech pull about the same oil pressure (~5-10 psi more than my stock 2000 pump).

Incidentally, I noticed in a recent Motor Trend where they noted that one of the problems with 2001 ZO6's was oil pump failures.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

My Katech arrived today. I hope it's a good one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

85,000 miles on my stock '99 pump, never waivered. I installed a cam last week and saw no reason to replace it or the timing chain. Time will tell, but I'm not worried. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

I've got 20K on my ARE unit. Not a quiver on the oil pressure needle.

I bought it when there was a rash of oil pump failures a couple of years ago.

JAY4SPEED

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Fulton 1:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jmX:
Guys, its not about oil pressure waivering, its about one day, a perfectly working pump going dead. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yup, that's how it was with mine. Around 7000 miles on the car and wife gets in and starts it. Oil pressure never comes up. Shut down, wait, restart with same results. Since it was under warranty and I hadn't done much to the car I tried again and this time pressure did come up after about 2 seconds or so. Called the dealership and they blew it off. Said they'd NEVER heard of an LS1 oil pump going bad and told me that if it happens again to call. This was long after I'd heard of failure problems and saw the internal GM memo posted on LS1.com. Because of this I had been monitoring the pressure on startup.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What happened to you was your oil pressure relief piston stuck open for some reason causing you to lose oil pressure. When the piston unsticks and returns to the detent position, you have oil pressure. The spring and piston is designed to keep your engine from building excessive oil pressure. If its stuck wide open, you'll have no oil pressure. This would explain the loss in oil pressure and then regaining it shortly afterwards. I wonder if aftermarket pumps have microfinished oil pressure relief pistons and bores?

As for the dealership blowing you off, I'd have to shop for a new dealer to take my car. You said it had 7,000 miles on it, if it was the same dealership you purchased the vehicle at, I'd be very upset with that service dept. I'm usually on the other end trying to explain the dealership point of view since I'm a tech at one, but thats unexcusable. Wish you lived closer to here, I'd would have told you to call 1-800-chevusa and get a tow truck and let me look at it rather than blow you off over the phone. Especially with 7000 miles on your new car. Scheesh with service writers like that no wonder y'all have the image of dealers that you do. Any way, hope to have helped explained your situation to you a little bit.

Jay