AlonzoVersion 1.0

I am about to bite the bullet and order my cam (gotta love the holidays)and was wondering why do people get degrees ground in and retarded in a camshaft?Does it change the power curve or how much longer one side stays open or make more power?I have been wondering about this.My choice will be 230/230 600/600 110 lsa.I shift at 6600 unfortunately.What would be the best degrees to get ground in or retarded in the cam?Thanks everyone.Sorry this is a stock displacement motor.

<small>[ December 05, 2002, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: Alonzo ]</small>

12secSS

iTrader: (30)

Advancing the cam (based on ICL) gives you more low end power, while retarding the cam (based on ICL) gives you top end power. You do not need to have that ground into the cam, you can use an adjustable timing chain set to accomplish that. Unless your application requires more timing than an adjustable timing chain can provide.

AlonzoVersion 1.0

Thanks alot.

dragboat

Alonzo,
Most cam grinders put some advance into the cam these days. Over the course of time a timing chain will stretch and allow the cam timing to retard is why they do this.
I would not just stick a cam in with it advanced 4 degrees via the lower timing chain gear keway some of the aftermarket chain sets come with. You just mught wind up with it 8-9 degrees advanced depending if the cam was ground with advance to start with.
Contact the maker of the cam would be my suggestion and ask if it has advance in it,,then decide from there,,,thinking putting the intake centerline on a 108 about right,the exhaust will be on a 112 centerline

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

My question would be.. If you advanced the cam 4 degrees would you lose the top end you already have currently.. I have asked this question b4, but no one has answered it.. If a car dyno's 350rwhp/350rwtq with 0 advance and peaked at say 6400rpm. If you advance the cam 4 degrees, what would the outcome be?

LS1derfull

Vince i have done this with out dyno testing, but lost no mph at track with 4* advance. What makes the difference is my cam has very slow ramps compared to xe and xer lobes. So i have longer adv. .006" duration with similar .050" duration to 224* popular cams. the extra seat duration and strong low lift flow of my heads allows decent extended cylinder filling with the cam advanced. I hope this makes sense because im sure i have nailed it on the head in my case. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

DailyAluminumBlock

According to quite a few in this board advancing the cam that much would net you a peak of around 6000. I am told that by advancing my 110lsa 224 cam 4 degrees I will peak at about 5900.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

Let me get this right. On faster ramped cams advancing 4 degrees is not good? LS1derful, if your mph stayed the same in the 1/4th, did your time change? I would still like to know if you would lose top end or will it stay the same except you would peak earlier...? I was also told that advancing a cam helps the car idle better as well. Usually when people ask questions about advancing and retarding a cam they get generic answers. Who knows all the changes that occurs? i.e., powerband increases/decreases, idle changes, increases/decreases of topend, increases/decreases of midrange, and flat out benefits of either/or.

LS1derfull

Vince on fast ramp cams you will chop off some breathing on top if you advance cam 4*, unless cam is on big side for combo. I can tell you exactly what my car did after: idle speed came up some, low speed torque and response increased, my 1/8 mile speed came up 1mph and 2 tenths, 1/4 mph was same but et dropped 2 tenths.My tune went leaner and needed fattening up with translator also. Car lugs less in 5th and 6th gear now around 1700 rpms. Does this help?

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

That helps a lot.. Thanks..

Beeler422

iTrader: (3)

I have the SLP double roller timing chain. Exactly how do you measure, say 4*, on the chain to advance it?

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

Oh yeah, ls1derful you did not mention if you noticed that your power peaked earlier or not. I know you mentioned not having this verified on the dyno, but what does your SOTP tell you..?

LS1derfull

I feel power band comes on earlier, and i cant feel it drop off at same shift points. If it was dropping off earlier my mph would have dropped also because i did not short shift after advancing cam.

<small>[ December 09, 2002, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: LS1derfull ]</small>

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

Nice... ls1derful.. Thanks for the information..

99GMC Can

Beeler,
You need a cam degree wheel so you can measure when the cam starts to ramp in relation to where your crank is at. Clear as mud?

ls1290

iTrader: (20)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 99GMC Can:
<strong>Beeler,
You need a cam degree wheel so you can measure when the cam starts to ramp in relation to where your crank is at. Clear as mud?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">When installing a new cam, does one need to use the degree wheel like on SBCs?

AlonzoVersion 1.0

Not on a ls1.Dot 2 Dot and your good to go.

Beeler422

iTrader: (3)

So if installing a new cam, install it dot to dot and then degree it from there with the cam degree?

AlonzoVersion 1.0

No once you do dot 2 dot its already degreed.I thought it was going to be hard and require more work but dot 2 dot and your ready to trot.

<small>[ December 09, 2002, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: Alonzo ]</small>

Tin Indian

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Alonzo:
<strong>No once you do dot 2 dot its already degreed.I thought it was going to be hard and require more work but dot 2 dot and your ready to trot.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Dot to dot don't "degree" the cam.....

Here's the bottom line: In the early days, not all cams were created equal. I say this because manufacturing processes were not what they are today. A cam would be "degreed" with a degree wheel to insure it was installed to whatever specs the user wanted, and/or to confirm the specs that the manufacturer put on the cam card. In many cases, the cam would need to be either retarded or advanced slightly via an adjustable timing set or offset bushing in order to get the correct centerline that was advertised on the card.

Case in point: I had a Sig Erson cam for a Chry. 440 engine that had to be installed 4 degrees from "dot-to-dot in order to achieve the specs that were on the card. You really needed to use a degree wheel and an offset bushing in order to install the cam as per spec.

Today, these cams are manufactured within 1 degree of what is stated on the card. Putting it in "dot to dot" will satisfy the specs as per the card.

Now, if for some reason you don't want the 4 degrees of advance your Comp Cams is manufactured with, sure, get an adjustable timing set and put it in somewhere else.

But again, although utilizing a degree wheel during the install will confirm the cam card info, it probably is not nessesary with todays cams in a motor not specifically built for competition.

So, in the case of "Put it in dot to dot, and your hot to trot" .... Well, I guess today, that would hold true as long as your happy with the amount of advance/retard the manufacturer ground into it.

Ron, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Bottom line; If you didn't use THIS, a dial indicator and a piston stop, you didn't "Degree In" your cam!

<img src="http://www.cranecams.com/instructions/degreeing/803f1.gif" alt=" - " />

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<small>[ December 10, 2002, 05:09 AM: Message edited by: Kimchee and Rice ]</small>