: ( 6.0 MS4 Question
11-18-2007, 10:01 AM
#23
Considering that, I'd say you have a good budget foundation for a forced induction setup, but if you want to go N/A, you still have a couple of options:
- look for a stock set of LQ9 or passenger car 6.0 pistons that have a true flat-too to get your compression up
- look for another set of heads with much smaller chambers, 64cc being the largest to even consider, but 59cc's would be best with the MS4 cam
- look for a custom cam that will give you as much power as you cam make with the otherwise mis-matched parts you have
Last option really compromises the power output, but the MS4 will be pretty soft until 4000 or more without more squeeze.
Good luck!
11-18-2007, 01:05 PM
#24
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Yes. If you actually have a 72cc chamber that is milled .020", you are probably at about 69cc (you lose approximately 1cc for every .006 removed). Couple that with your dished pistons, and I wouldn't expect more than 9.6:1 with a stock gasket, maybe 9.8:1 with thinner gaskets, as described in my previous post. The MS4 cam is known as a top-end cam, and needs to be run with the proper static compression ratio for the best all around results.
Considering that, I'd say you have a good budget foundation for a forced induction setup, but if you want to go N/A, you still have a couple of options:
- look for a stock set of LQ9 or passenger car 6.0 pistons that have a true flat-too to get your compression up
- look for another set of heads with much smaller chambers, 64cc being the largest to even consider, but 59cc's would be best with the MS4 cam
- look for a custom cam that will give you as much power as you cam make with the otherwise mis-matched parts you have
Last option really compromises the power output, but the MS4 will be pretty soft until 4000 or more without more squeeze.
Good luck!
Considering that, I'd say you have a good budget foundation for a forced induction setup, but if you want to go N/A, you still have a couple of options:
- look for a stock set of LQ9 or passenger car 6.0 pistons that have a true flat-too to get your compression up
- look for another set of heads with much smaller chambers, 64cc being the largest to even consider, but 59cc's would be best with the MS4 cam
- look for a custom cam that will give you as much power as you cam make with the otherwise mis-matched parts you have
Last option really compromises the power output, but the MS4 will be pretty soft until 4000 or more without more squeeze.
Good luck!
Which would you suggest for the most gains? trading the heads or trading the cam? and if a diff cam choice would be the better route about what specs would you recommend?
lol and ya im i little mixed matched but i got a really good deal on the parts i have so couldnt pass it up.. and thanks for the help!
11-18-2007, 04:16 PM
#25
MS4 is pretty much a max effort strip cam, so anyone who wanted to recommend another cam would need to know exactly what you are trying to do here. Is this a daily driven street car? What supporting mods do you have? A4 or M6, and what gears?
That cam works well with a 4.30 gear on a 28" tire behind an M6, and a 4.11 behind an Auto trans, with 4000+ stall. If you are trying to run any less gear at the track, you probably won't reach the peak before the traps. If you run less on the street, you may suffer the consequences of weak low end, particularly with lower than recommended compression. Also, expect the launch to be soft with any less converter.
A drag car can be geared/stalled accordingly and still achieve decent results. On the other hand, a street car always entails a compromise, and the results will depend on the combination of parts.
That cam works well with a 4.30 gear on a 28" tire behind an M6, and a 4.11 behind an Auto trans, with 4000+ stall. If you are trying to run any less gear at the track, you probably won't reach the peak before the traps. If you run less on the street, you may suffer the consequences of weak low end, particularly with lower than recommended compression. Also, expect the launch to be soft with any less converter.
A drag car can be geared/stalled accordingly and still achieve decent results. On the other hand, a street car always entails a compromise, and the results will depend on the combination of parts.
11-18-2007, 05:22 PM
#26
MS4 max effort? MS4 is pretty much a max effort strip cam, so anyone who wanted to recommend another cam would need to know exactly what you are trying to do here. Is this a daily driven street car? What supporting mods do you have? A4 or M6, and what gears?
That cam works well with a 4.30 gear on a 28" tire behind an M6, and a 4.11 behind an Auto trans, with 4000+ stall. If you are trying to run any less gear at the track, you probably won't reach the peak before the traps. If you run less on the street, you may suffer the consequences of weak low end, particularly with lower than recommended compression. Also, expect the launch to be soft with any less converter.
A drag car can be geared/stalled accordingly and still achieve decent results. On the other hand, a street car always entails a compromise, and the results will depend on the combination of parts.
That cam works well with a 4.30 gear on a 28" tire behind an M6, and a 4.11 behind an Auto trans, with 4000+ stall. If you are trying to run any less gear at the track, you probably won't reach the peak before the traps. If you run less on the street, you may suffer the consequences of weak low end, particularly with lower than recommended compression. Also, expect the launch to be soft with any less converter.
A drag car can be geared/stalled accordingly and still achieve decent results. On the other hand, a street car always entails a compromise, and the results will depend on the combination of parts.
Attachment 110372
Last edited by NC98Z; 11-12-2010 at 01:14 PM.
11-18-2007, 05:40 PM
#27
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well i for sure want to be able to drive it on the street. and the word "streetable" to me means from point a to b and then back to point a.. lol im use to not having street manors out of a car... and i want to put down some power, 400-450 range is what im shooting for
my supporting mods are,,, built a4, p.i 3600 stall, 3.42's, ls6 intake, full bolt ons.
and nc98z how do you like your setup? it seems to be similar to what im currently looking at.
my supporting mods are,,, built a4, p.i 3600 stall, 3.42's, ls6 intake, full bolt ons.
and nc98z how do you like your setup? it seems to be similar to what im currently looking at.
11-18-2007, 08:32 PM
#28
NC98Z, was your converter locked for that dyno? Those are good numbers through an A4, but I suspect a lot of your bottom end is the converter stalling. 350+ lb-ft at 3000 rpm is not the norm for that cam. That said, the right converter will make this cam work well.
I found a cam only MS4 Dyno that peaked at 410rwhp, 382rwtq. Note the low end of the curve, what looks like around 275-280 at 2500 rpm. I'm certain your numbers through an M6 would be better than the cam only numbers I'm citing, but keep in mind the lower compression LQ4 shortblock in question, and the large chambered heads our original poster currently has.
I won't argue that the MS4 is an improvement over the MS3, but it is bigger still, and the tighter LSA and correspondingly lower Intake Centerline are why it makes more torque.
Another Link - no graph - 386.40hp and 360.04 torque - stock converter
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2000 A4 Trans Am- TSP MS4 Cam Kit, Pacesetter Off-road LT Headers, TSP 3in ORY-Pipe with dual cutouts, SLP Air Lid, SLP 85mm MAF sensor, SLP smooth bellow, PowerBond Pulley, LS6 Oil Pump, NGK TR55 Spark Plugs, MSD 8.5mm Spark Plug Wires and a fully rebuilt beefed up 4L60E
Another Link - 300rwtq@2500rpm
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1998 ss m6 camaro with TSP ms4 package, ls6 ported oil pump, ls2 timing chain, pacesetter headers and ory, msd wires, slp lid, k & n, fast toys intake, pro 5.0, z06 clutch, bmr sfc, bigs n skinnies, WTB ls6 intake
I found a cam only MS4 Dyno that peaked at 410rwhp, 382rwtq. Note the low end of the curve, what looks like around 275-280 at 2500 rpm. I'm certain your numbers through an M6 would be better than the cam only numbers I'm citing, but keep in mind the lower compression LQ4 shortblock in question, and the large chambered heads our original poster currently has.
I won't argue that the MS4 is an improvement over the MS3, but it is bigger still, and the tighter LSA and correspondingly lower Intake Centerline are why it makes more torque.
Another Link - no graph - 386.40hp and 360.04 torque - stock converter
Originally Posted by slow ws6
yeah guys the car sucks of the line it really just falls on its face until it hits 4000 rpms then it starts to pull. I am also about to install some 3.73 gears will I notice a difference?? and will it at least help me out until I can get a stall put in???
2000 A4 Trans Am- TSP MS4 Cam Kit, Pacesetter Off-road LT Headers, TSP 3in ORY-Pipe with dual cutouts, SLP Air Lid, SLP 85mm MAF sensor, SLP smooth bellow, PowerBond Pulley, LS6 Oil Pump, NGK TR55 Spark Plugs, MSD 8.5mm Spark Plug Wires and a fully rebuilt beefed up 4L60E
Another Link - 300rwtq@2500rpm
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1998 ss m6 camaro with TSP ms4 package, ls6 ported oil pump, ls2 timing chain, pacesetter headers and ory, msd wires, slp lid, k & n, fast toys intake, pro 5.0, z06 clutch, bmr sfc, bigs n skinnies, WTB ls6 intake
11-19-2007, 08:20 AM
#29
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I have a build, but stock bore/stroke 6L with 11:1 custom Diamond pistons with LS6 heads milled slightly.
Cam is by Bullet...630 lift, 255int/265exh dur @ .050, with a 112 LSA and no clearance issues. Stock size Cometics on as well.
Cam is by Bullet...630 lift, 255int/265exh dur @ .050, with a 112 LSA and no clearance issues. Stock size Cometics on as well.
11-19-2007, 11:59 PM
#31
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well when i get it all together im gonna have a lot of videos
and i will be sure to check the fit of it all before it goes in..
any other input would be awesome.
and i will be sure to check the fit of it all before it goes in..
any other input would be awesome.
11-20-2007, 06:38 AM
#32
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put it together and measure it yourself... are you really going to rely on what an internet forum tells you when it comes to bending up valves and breaking pistons???
This is a place to get headed in the right direction, not to base your build off of. I know if it were me running a combo like that I'd definitely take plenty of time and measure everything out to make sure my motor wouldnt eat itself... I dont care who TOLD you what... JMHO
This is a place to get headed in the right direction, not to base your build off of. I know if it were me running a combo like that I'd definitely take plenty of time and measure everything out to make sure my motor wouldnt eat itself... I dont care who TOLD you what... JMHO
11-20-2007, 08:26 AM
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Like I said, it's best to check and be safe!
11-20-2007, 06:04 PM
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put it together and measure it yourself... are you really going to rely on what an internet forum tells you when it comes to bending up valves and breaking pistons???
This is a place to get headed in the right direction, not to base your build off of. I know if it were me running a combo like that I'd definitely take plenty of time and measure everything out to make sure my motor wouldnt eat itself... I dont care who TOLD you what... JMHO
This is a place to get headed in the right direction, not to base your build off of. I know if it were me running a combo like that I'd definitely take plenty of time and measure everything out to make sure my motor wouldnt eat itself... I dont care who TOLD you what... JMHO
