Generation III Internal Engine 1997-2006 LS1 | LS6
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Beehive VS. dual springs HP differance?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01-16-2008, 10:51 PM
  #1  
TECH Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
 
mvvette97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leon Iowa
Posts: 1,766
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default Beehive VS. dual springs HP differance?

An article was sayin that the Beehive spring was producing 40 more hp over the duals. I would have to say that article is nothing but a load of bull. What do you guys think of that?
Old 01-16-2008, 11:17 PM
  #2  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
 
RedRallyeZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Sugartit, South Carolina
Posts: 1,395
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default

yeah, because everyone knows that high spring pressure robs the engine b/c some of the horsepower goes toward compressing the springs
Old 01-16-2008, 11:20 PM
  #3  
TECH Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
 
mvvette97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leon Iowa
Posts: 1,766
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default

yea people say that but 40hp sounds a little out of this world to me
Old 01-16-2008, 11:21 PM
  #4  
Banned
 
Asmodeus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 1,875
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by RedRallyeZ
yeah, because everyone knows that high spring pressure robs the engine b/c some of the horsepower goes toward compressing the springs
Actually, spring pressure doesn't really rob anything. For every valve that is being compressed, another one is decompressing. When the cam is applying force to one lifter, another lifter is returning force to the cam.

The reason they probably gained 40hp was because their dual springs were running into a harmonic that the beehives cancelled out.
Old 01-16-2008, 11:23 PM
  #5  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
SOMbitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,881
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

^^^^^^^ Ditto the first part! Don't know about the harmonics though??
Old 01-16-2008, 11:27 PM
  #6  
Flow Wizard
iTrader: (13)
 
Tony Mamo @ AFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,197
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts

Default

Sombitch....Nice avatar....LOL

But to get back on track, a lightweight small diameter dual can provide the same high RPM stability as a beehive and also allow you to sleep at night.

Talk to the owner of a beehive sprung motor after one of his springs break.....it aint pretty as the valve only has one way to go. The duals can break also but your safety net is the other spring still remaining.

Tony
Old 01-16-2008, 11:31 PM
  #7  
Banned
 
Asmodeus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 1,875
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by SOMbitch
^^^^^^^ Ditto the first part! Don't know about the harmonics though??
If a critical harmonic occurs with your valve springs, the valve motions will momentarily be out of control. And it will cost you horsepower.
Old 01-17-2008, 12:37 AM
  #8  
Registered User
iTrader: (15)
 
Unaffliated Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 873
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

ok..some of this was taken out of the relm of the origional post. If the only variable was the spring... a beehive would kick a double's butt all day long. Not a 40hp difference but a difference indeed. Tony...forgive me but your comments were way off track for this post. Yes we all know what can happen if a spring breaks. Notice I didn't say beehive.. I said spring. Anyone having the thought.." i'll get a dual so i'll be protected if the outer breaks" should rethink things. Yes it is less likely to have major damage with a dual if that occurs but an inner will not ever give me peace of mind. There is probably no person that stands behind the beehive design more than me. Comp has done sooo much spintron work with these springs vs. the dual.... The beehive will win hands down everytime. Tony... nothing personal. You and I have had great dealings in the past.
Old 01-17-2008, 01:01 AM
  #9  
TECH Resident
iTrader: (4)
 
99mongooSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Denton, Tx
Posts: 779
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

load of bull. And Im with tony, I like my sleep
Old 01-17-2008, 01:04 AM
  #10  
TECH Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
 
mvvette97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leon Iowa
Posts: 1,766
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default

yea me too, I had the 918 springs on mine for a little while and I had some break. I now put the duals on and so far so good and I feel better too
Old 01-17-2008, 01:07 AM
  #11  
TECH Resident
iTrader: (4)
 
99mongooSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Denton, Tx
Posts: 779
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

had a buddy of my break one and then we pulled his heads off and found a big eyebrow in the piston. To say the least his heads where facked!!! he bent a valve into the head.
Old 01-17-2008, 01:13 AM
  #12  
Registered User
iTrader: (15)
 
Unaffliated Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 873
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

So... the point of your post was what?....nothing? I'm not trying to be rude but you asked a specific question and this post has just turned into another.." 918 springs suck thread"...It amazes me what kind of damage people can do when they don't know any better. Like I said nothing personal..just trying to give info on your orgional post and keep it on track.
Old 01-17-2008, 01:34 AM
  #13  
Flow Wizard
iTrader: (13)
 
Tony Mamo @ AFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,197
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Unaffiliated Racing
ok..some of this was taken out of the relm of the origional post. If the only variable was the spring... a beehive would kick a double's butt all day long. Not a 40hp difference but a difference indeed. Tony...forgive me but your comments were way off track for this post. Yes we all know what can happen if a spring breaks. Notice I didn't say beehive.. I said spring. Anyone having the thought.." i'll get a dual so i'll be protected if the outer breaks" should rethink things. Yes it is less likely to have major damage with a dual if that occurs but an inner will not ever give me peace of mind. There is probably no person that stands behind the beehive design more than me. Comp has done sooo much spintron work with these springs vs. the dual.... The beehive will win hands down everytime. Tony... nothing personal. You and I have had great dealings in the past.
I beg to differ only because I did extensive spring testing early in the LS program on a Superflo engine dyno....

Our 8019 dual made the same power till 6700 as a Comp 918 (the beehive gold standard at the time) and made slightly more power from there till 7000 where we terminated the test.

IMO, the right dual set-up can be as effective as a beehive design and while a dual spring doesnt guarantee against engine damage (you can still tag a valve with only one spring providing less pressure), you are far less likely to drop a valve which causes catastrophic engine damage....a bent valve is far less painful on the wallet.

Tony

PS....The worst performing spring of the test was the dual Comp design with the ovate wire. They work well with stock rockers but this test was conducted with Crane Gold rockers which made valve control a little more challenging due to the added rocker weight.
Old 01-17-2008, 01:37 AM
  #14  
TECH Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (18)
 
mvvette97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leon Iowa
Posts: 1,766
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by Unaffiliated Racing
So... the point of your post was what?....nothing? I'm not trying to be rude but you asked a specific question and this post has just turned into another.." 918 springs suck thread"...It amazes me what kind of damage people can do when they don't know any better. Like I said nothing personal..just trying to give info on your orgional post and keep it on track.
I don't have to have a point, I started this thread so I'll say whatever. I don't know why you are getting so bent out of shape over this. You have had good luck with the beehive spring but alot of other people haven't like me. Use what you want and if this thread upsets you so much then don't reply to it.
Old 01-17-2008, 01:49 AM
  #15  
TECH Resident
iTrader: (4)
 
99mongooSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Denton, Tx
Posts: 779
Received 1 Like on 1 Post

Default

Originally Posted by Unaffiliated Racing
So... the point of your post was what?....nothing? I'm not trying to be rude but you asked a specific question and this post has just turned into another.." 918 springs suck thread"...It amazes me what kind of damage people can do when they don't know any better. Like I said nothing personal..just trying to give info on your orgional post and keep it on track.
ok well you dont gotta be the post police...take a chill pill
Old 01-17-2008, 12:15 PM
  #16  
10 Second Club
iTrader: (24)
 
chrs1313's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,697
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts

Default

i dunno i am making some good power with duals...
Old 01-17-2008, 12:43 PM
  #17  
Launching!
 
Yeahdoug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

It's different for every engine. THere doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference on LSX engines.

I've seen decent improvements on BBC's. Mostly because it gave them some more RPM. We also had a Super Stock that saw a big difference in his little 289 since he had another 800 RPM of valvetrain stability.. Ended up winning his class in the nationals tihs year..
Old 01-17-2008, 02:45 PM
  #18  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
SOMbitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,881
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
Sombitch....Nice avatar....LOL


Tony
HAHA. Yeah, it's a pretty plush rideLOL
Old 01-17-2008, 03:39 PM
  #19  
JS
10 Second Club
iTrader: (4)
 
JS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Delray Beach, Fl.
Posts: 7,303
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts

Default

What about up to 6500,I would think there would be no difference between a good set of duals and a beehive.....
Old 01-17-2008, 03:50 PM
  #20  
Banned
iTrader: (10)
 
edcmat-l1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Va Beach
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
Sombitch....Nice avatar....LOL
HAHA. I was thinkin the same thing......


Originally Posted by Tony Mamo @ AFR
But to get back on track, a lightweight small diameter dual can provide the same high RPM stability as a beehive and also allow you to sleep at night.

Talk to the owner of a beehive sprung motor after one of his springs break.....it aint pretty as the valve only has one way to go. The duals can break also but your safety net is the other spring still remaining.

Tony
I agree 100%. I've never liked the idea of singles. Dont recommend them. I dont install them.
I cant see how, if you have good valvetrain control, you could make that much more power
just with a single spring. Harmonics aside.


Quick Reply: Beehive VS. dual springs HP differance?



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:31 AM.