454 lsx with cnc l92 heads, intake options?
03-13-2009, 10:22 PM
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454 lsx with cnc l92 heads, intake options? what intakes are out there right now that will match the ports, whats the pros and cons of each. i know there is the l76 and l92 intakes and it looks like there is a new fast intake out there but what else?
looking to make 700hp with the combo and dont want to spend a million on the intake but dont want it to be a limiting factor etiher so any info would help, thanks.
looking to make 700hp with the combo and dont want to spend a million on the intake but dont want it to be a limiting factor etiher so any info would help, thanks.
03-14-2009, 08:33 AM
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If you are spending $5K on an intake, you are being taken for a ride
You can get a sheetmetal for @ $1500-$2500, depending on what you want.
That being said, I do believe the Fast is not out yet for teh L92's. I could be wrong. Injected, your only option right now is teh 76, again, not 100%, but pretty sure. For carb, you have teh GMPP carb intake. Edelbrock is working on one for teh Victor series, and should be out pretty soon, if not already.
Options are pretty limited right now, should get better.
You can get a sheetmetal for @ $1500-$2500, depending on what you want.
That being said, I do believe the Fast is not out yet for teh L92's. I could be wrong. Injected, your only option right now is teh 76, again, not 100%, but pretty sure. For carb, you have teh GMPP carb intake. Edelbrock is working on one for teh Victor series, and should be out pretty soon, if not already.
Options are pretty limited right now, should get better.
03-14-2009, 10:00 AM
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i realize that 5k is silly but it was just a number i threw out there.
as tight as i am lol there is a better chance of me snowboarding in hell vs spending 5k on an intake unless of course its a maggie
as tight as i am lol there is a better chance of me snowboarding in hell vs spending 5k on an intake unless of course its a maggie
03-14-2009, 10:07 AM
#6
I STOUT sheetmetal intake will run $3000-$3200, designed to your application. This is one reason why I don't understand why people choose to build such big motors. In order for you to really extract the power out of all 454 cubes you have you really need a STOUT set of heads and a badass manifold because we all know that ~70% of the power comes from H/C/I. With that being said if it were my motor I would use in this order....
1 - ET Canted Valve heads with a Sheetmetal intake
2 - ET C5R heads with Sheetmetal intake
3 - ET LS7 heads
4 - 11 degree LS1 type of head with a Fast 92mm/ported TB
Isn't fast coming out with an L92 intake here in the next 6 months? If so you could always get a GM to finish the build and than upgrade once it comes out.
1 - ET Canted Valve heads with a Sheetmetal intake
2 - ET C5R heads with Sheetmetal intake
3 - ET LS7 heads
4 - 11 degree LS1 type of head with a Fast 92mm/ported TB
Isn't fast coming out with an L92 intake here in the next 6 months? If so you could always get a GM to finish the build and than upgrade once it comes out.
03-15-2009, 09:00 AM
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Hey Phil, I just got teh latest issue of GMHTP, and it says FAST should have teh 102 MM manifold out by now. I have not confirmed if it is or isn't, but according to the issue I JUST picked up last night, said it should be out.
Also, I did find that Edelbrock has released the Vic Jr for teh L92 (according to their add it is out). I know the Vic Jr is smaller than teh Sr. serious, and teh Jr. may not move enough air for a 454", don't know...maybe yes, maybe no
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03-15-2009, 01:47 PM
#8
You have a 454, you have L92 heads, why put any plastic intake on there thats just going to kill those heads and in turn NOT be able to even begin to feed a 454ci. Might as well just build a 408ci-416ci.
Would you save a little more $$$ and spend $2,100 on an intake that will *** rape any sheet metal intake, by far, in the power prodcution department, and still have a very smooth 600-700 rpm idle and have great street ability, just like a factory intake does?
Get a Harrop Hurricane 55mm ITB intake. You'll make 40-70 hp over a FAST 90/90, depending on your cam, compression and head flow numbers.
Would you save a little more $$$ and spend $2,100 on an intake that will *** rape any sheet metal intake, by far, in the power prodcution department, and still have a very smooth 600-700 rpm idle and have great street ability, just like a factory intake does?
Get a Harrop Hurricane 55mm ITB intake. You'll make 40-70 hp over a FAST 90/90, depending on your cam, compression and head flow numbers.
03-15-2009, 01:55 PM
#9
I STOUT sheetmetal intake will run $3000-$3200, designed to your application. This is one reason why I don't understand why people choose to build such big motors. In order for you to really extract the power out of all 454 cubes you have you really need a STOUT set of heads and a badass manifold because we all know that ~70% of the power comes from H/C/I. With that being said if it were my motor I would use in this order....
1 - ET Canted Valve heads with a Sheetmetal intake
2 - ET C5R heads with Sheetmetal intake
3 - ET LS7 heads
4 - 11 degree LS1 type of head with a Fast 92mm/ported TB
Isn't fast coming out with an L92 intake here in the next 6 months? If so you could always get a GM to finish the build and than upgrade once it comes out.
1 - ET Canted Valve heads with a Sheetmetal intake
2 - ET C5R heads with Sheetmetal intake
3 - ET LS7 heads
4 - 11 degree LS1 type of head with a Fast 92mm/ported TB
Isn't fast coming out with an L92 intake here in the next 6 months? If so you could always get a GM to finish the build and than upgrade once it comes out.
Intake is everything. Heads that flow 400cfm can't feed a 454 to its max potential. 450 cfm heads can't either. So since we have heads that flow only about 400cfm, without spending $10,000 on a set, we need to find intakes that DO NOT kill them. There isn't any plastic or sheet metal intake out there there doesn't kill them. Only ones that allow them to flow at their max potential are the ITB intakes.
If "sstolenks" wants to close in the max potential of what a 454ci needs, he must start with an ITB intake. Any plastic intake or sheet metal intake, no matter what heads he uses, will knock that 454ci down to a 416-422ci.
I know someone who went with the Harrop ITB and made 65 RWHP over the FAST 90/90 on a 454ci. Then, talk to Richard at WCCH, one of his customers recently made 80 fwhp over a GMMP single plane when they went with the ITB Kinsler intake.
Its ALL about the intake.
03-16-2009, 09:00 AM
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And 70% of the power made by the H/C/I, 70% of that is from the INTAKE.
Intake is everything. Heads that flow 400cfm can't feed a 454 to its max potential. 450 cfm heads can't either. So since we have heads that flow only about 400cfm, without spending $10,000 on a set, we need to find intakes that DO NOT kill them. There isn't any plastic or sheet metal intake out there there doesn't kill them. Only ones that allow them to flow at their max potential are the ITB intakes.
If "sstolenks" wants to close in the max potential of what a 454ci needs, he must start with an ITB intake. Any plastic intake or sheet metal intake, no matter what heads he uses, will knock that 454ci down to a 416-422ci.
I know someone who went with the Harrop ITB and made 65 RWHP over the FAST 90/90 on a 454ci. Then, talk to Richard at WCCH, one of his customers recently made 80 fwhp over a GMMP single plane when they went with the ITB Kinsler intake.
Its ALL about the intake.
Intake is everything. Heads that flow 400cfm can't feed a 454 to its max potential. 450 cfm heads can't either. So since we have heads that flow only about 400cfm, without spending $10,000 on a set, we need to find intakes that DO NOT kill them. There isn't any plastic or sheet metal intake out there there doesn't kill them. Only ones that allow them to flow at their max potential are the ITB intakes.
If "sstolenks" wants to close in the max potential of what a 454ci needs, he must start with an ITB intake. Any plastic intake or sheet metal intake, no matter what heads he uses, will knock that 454ci down to a 416-422ci.
I know someone who went with the Harrop ITB and made 65 RWHP over the FAST 90/90 on a 454ci. Then, talk to Richard at WCCH, one of his customers recently made 80 fwhp over a GMMP single plane when they went with the ITB Kinsler intake.
Its ALL about the intake.
Where are you getting your info from? You say a "sheetmetal intake" can't feed a 454" motor
70% of power out of a H/C/I is from teh intake Look, just because a friend of a friend's combo made more power with a ITB over a GMPP intake, does not mean a whole lot. 
That is the purpose of a sheetmetal intake, to optimize the head/cam, CI, compression, tranny, weight of car, NA, FI, etc....Someone like Beck or Cary, will ask those questions so they can determine what type of intake to make for each build....runner length, plenum volume, cross section, etc....
Build the 454". If right now you can't afford a quality sheetmetal intake, throw a stocker on it, drive it, save some money, THEN upgrade to a sheetmetal (of FAST, or whatever) later on.
Easier to upgrade an intake than a bottom end
Why build a smaller motor if you really want a bigger one??? Because of intake selection? Like I said, do the big motor now and worry about the intake later.
Oh yeah, the heads/cam or cam/heads and then intake make the power, in that order. Intake does NOT make 70 % of the power.
I also forgot to add...do you know how much 400CFM is out of a head? ALOT! More than enough to feed a 454" motor I can tell you that.
Last edited by Gen414; 03-16-2009 at 03:02 PM.
03-16-2009, 10:53 AM
#12
I agree id rather spend the money on building a really bad *** 408/418 or somthing along those lines. To really get the power of the really big cube setups you need the very very best of everything.
03-16-2009, 07:27 PM
#16
Where are you getting your info from? You say a "sheetmetal intake" can't feed a 454" motor 70% of power out of a H/C/I is from teh intake Look, just because a friend of a friend's combo made more power with a ITB over a GMPP intake, does not mean a whole lot.
That is the purpose of a sheetmetal intake, to optimize the head/cam, CI, compression, tranny, weight of car, NA, FI, etc....Someone like Beck or Cary, will ask those questions so they can determine what type of intake to make for each build....runner length, plenum volume, cross section, etc....
Build the 454". If right now you can't afford a quality sheetmetal intake, throw a stocker on it, drive it, save some money, THEN upgrade to a sheetmetal (of FAST, or whatever) later on.
Easier to upgrade an intake than a bottom end Why build a smaller motor if you really want a bigger one??? Because of intake selection?
Like I said, do the big motor now and worry about the intake later.
Oh yeah, the heads/cam or cam/heads and then intake make the power, in that order. Intake does NOT make 70 % of the power.
I also forgot to add...do you know how much 400CFM is out of a head? ALOT! More than enough to feed a 454" motor I can tell you that.
70% of power out of a H/C/I is from teh intake Look, just because a friend of a friend's combo made more power with a ITB over a GMPP intake, does not mean a whole lot. That is the purpose of a sheetmetal intake, to optimize the head/cam, CI, compression, tranny, weight of car, NA, FI, etc....Someone like Beck or Cary, will ask those questions so they can determine what type of intake to make for each build....runner length, plenum volume, cross section, etc....
Build the 454". If right now you can't afford a quality sheetmetal intake, throw a stocker on it, drive it, save some money, THEN upgrade to a sheetmetal (of FAST, or whatever) later on.
Easier to upgrade an intake than a bottom end
Why build a smaller motor if you really want a bigger one??? Because of intake selection? Like I said, do the big motor now and worry about the intake later.
Oh yeah, the heads/cam or cam/heads and then intake make the power, in that order. Intake does NOT make 70 % of the power.
I also forgot to add...do you know how much 400CFM is out of a head? ALOT! More than enough to feed a 454" motor I can tell you that.
WCCH, you know the company that makes the All-Pro heads
, have a customer that picked up 80 FWHP by ONLY changing to a Kinsler ITB intake. They then upgraded the heads and made 20 HP more. It was a nicely built engine.Ok, so you're proven wrong. The ITB intake picked up 80, the new, better heads picked up 20. Do you see a difference in 20 and 80 HP???? And you know they wouldn't have picked up more than 80 hp with a cam upgrade, so lets not even go there.
The 454ci with the Harrop, picked up 65 RWHP over the FAST 90/90. The Wilson sheet metal he had on there before the FAST 90/90 only made 4 hp more than the FAST 90/90. It also wouldn't idle below 1,200 rpm and he had lean rear cylinders. And they're way over priced.
Its all about the intake when you're building big, and the original poster wants 700 hp, 600+ RWHP.
Not saying you're wrong...you just don't know.
You show me a sheet metal 454ci that makes 600+ RWHP on pump gas, tuned to drive very smoothly (600-700 rpm idle) on the street in stop-and-go traffic. IF you do, we'll bolt an ITB intake to it and make 50-80 more HP.
ITB intakes and big cube engines, 427ci and larger, are begging for better heads, its not the other way around.
See ya.
03-17-2009, 07:54 AM
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My info comes from real life cars and reputable people.
WCCH, you know the company that makes the All-Pro heads, have a customer that picked up 80 FWHP by ONLY changing to a Kinsler ITB intake. They then upgraded the heads and made 20 HP more. It was a nicely built engine.
Ok, so you're proven wrong. The ITB intake picked up 80, the new, better heads picked up 20. Do you see a difference in 20 and 80 HP???? And you know they wouldn't have picked up more than 80 hp with a cam upgrade, so lets not even go there.
The 454ci with the Harrop, picked up 65 RWHP over the FAST 90/90. The Wilson sheet metal he had on there before the FAST 90/90 only made 4 hp more than the FAST 90/90. It also wouldn't idle below 1,200 rpm and he had lean rear cylinders. And they're way over priced.
Its all about the intake when you're building big, and the original poster wants 700 hp, 600+ RWHP.
Not saying you're wrong...you just don't know.
You show me a sheet metal 454ci that makes 600+ RWHP on pump gas, tuned to drive very smoothly (600-700 rpm idle) on the street in stop-and-go traffic. IF you do, we'll bolt an ITB intake to it and make 50-80 more HP.
ITB intakes and big cube engines, 427ci and larger, are begging for better heads, its not the other way around.
See ya.
WCCH, you know the company that makes the All-Pro heads
, have a customer that picked up 80 FWHP by ONLY changing to a Kinsler ITB intake. They then upgraded the heads and made 20 HP more. It was a nicely built engine.Ok, so you're proven wrong. The ITB intake picked up 80, the new, better heads picked up 20. Do you see a difference in 20 and 80 HP???? And you know they wouldn't have picked up more than 80 hp with a cam upgrade, so lets not even go there.
The 454ci with the Harrop, picked up 65 RWHP over the FAST 90/90. The Wilson sheet metal he had on there before the FAST 90/90 only made 4 hp more than the FAST 90/90. It also wouldn't idle below 1,200 rpm and he had lean rear cylinders. And they're way over priced.
Its all about the intake when you're building big, and the original poster wants 700 hp, 600+ RWHP.
Not saying you're wrong...you just don't know.
You show me a sheet metal 454ci that makes 600+ RWHP on pump gas, tuned to drive very smoothly (600-700 rpm idle) on the street in stop-and-go traffic. IF you do, we'll bolt an ITB intake to it and make 50-80 more HP.
ITB intakes and big cube engines, 427ci and larger, are begging for better heads, its not the other way around.
See ya.
Argument is pointless, you have your opinion and we can leave it at that.
And, I DO know
03-20-2009, 05:42 PM
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The larger engine is not always to make more power the larger the engine the more driveable it becomes "thats why we build them". Actually there is a very wise person named Stan Wiess he has independantly tested about 2,000 cylinder heads and according to his chart located here http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdp.htm
A 454ci engine will use approximately 400 cfm at 8,080rpm so 400cfm is far more than enough head flow for a 454 actually some of the best big block heads available only flow 500cfm, and they are intended for engines 632ci. I have ran the PRC ls7 heads and the WCHH L92 and made over 700hp with both using a GMPP carb intake and a 950cfm carb. The best thing to do is take your cybic inch divive it by 8 and use the chart I provided. That will tell you how much head you need by what rpm you plan on spinning your engine....If you do not plan on 8000 rpm and a solid roller you dont need ported LS7 heads that flow 400cfm. If you have a 454ci engine thats 56.75 ci per cylinder and spin at 7000 it will use about 360cfm so anymore is a waste and a carb intake will not keep up with a 400cfm head anyway but it will move at least 360cfm. There is plenty of carbed and injected engines making 700hp using these intakes so that is proof they flow enough air. I just made 741hp with the new Edelbrock intake and WCCH ported L92's.
A 454ci engine will use approximately 400 cfm at 8,080rpm so 400cfm is far more than enough head flow for a 454 actually some of the best big block heads available only flow 500cfm, and they are intended for engines 632ci. I have ran the PRC ls7 heads and the WCHH L92 and made over 700hp with both using a GMPP carb intake and a 950cfm carb. The best thing to do is take your cybic inch divive it by 8 and use the chart I provided. That will tell you how much head you need by what rpm you plan on spinning your engine....If you do not plan on 8000 rpm and a solid roller you dont need ported LS7 heads that flow 400cfm. If you have a 454ci engine thats 56.75 ci per cylinder and spin at 7000 it will use about 360cfm so anymore is a waste and a carb intake will not keep up with a 400cfm head anyway but it will move at least 360cfm. There is plenty of carbed and injected engines making 700hp using these intakes so that is proof they flow enough air. I just made 741hp with the new Edelbrock intake and WCCH ported L92's.
03-21-2009, 08:03 AM
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3timeracin hit it on the button, driveability! i could have made a lot more power a lot cheaper and easier but i want it to be fuel injected and driveable with 700bhp. i plan on running through a 4l80e and its going in a fully restored 2nd gen. this will be a cruiser, take it to a show here or there, even the track once in a while but its a cruiser first.