matchstick

iTrader: (21)

Had Mondello Tech Center flow my stage 2 l92's from Livernois, and I'm kinda disappointed. I know that two flow bench's won't flow the same and Bret told me theirs were usually 5-10 cfm down from other numbers he had saw advertised. I thought stock l92's were suppose to flow in the 320 range. Mine topped out at 330 cfm on an advertised 360. The exhaust side was on par and flowed 240 cfm to and advertised 245. I know peak flow numbers aren't all that matter, and they had fair low and mid lift numbers, I'm just curious as to why the peak numbers were so far off.

94 guy

iTrader: (125)

stock mine went 308-207 ported 351-226

See5

iTrader: (53)

The intake side is not a big issue. The focus should be in bringing up the exhaust to balance the high flowing intake side. The last thing one should do is open up the intake runners. A five angle valve job is about all that is recommended on intake. Not sure what was done by your porter.

matchstick

iTrader: (21)

Thanks for the fyi, even though you are completley missing my point.

See5

iTrader: (53)

So what you are asking for is someone else's independent flow numbers for Livernois heads?

matchstick

iTrader: (21)

Yes possibly, or maybe a reason for the low numbers. For instance different methods of flowing the intake side. I'm not familiar with the procedure, so I didn't know if Bret may have flowed them diffrently than Livernois.

OneQuickCoupe

iTrader: (1)

Most item's listed below are SOP for flow testing so it may not apply here given the companies involved. Most of these are rookie mistakes. Newer/better equipment is out their that is much more up to date than the equipment that I use in my home shop, (Super Flow 600 with R/B accessories). These are the things that I check during a test. Almost all the flow testing that I do is with the intake manifold installed unless I'm doing some development work on an unknown port.

I would check with Mr. Mondello to see if they used a radiused flow guide on the intake runner opening. Chances are if they were tested without some sort of radiuse guide the numbers will be low, (intake). Some shops will use clay to form a guide as well but a dedicated radiuses guide works the best and is repeatable. Another issue is the intake valve itself. If a different intake valve was used for the Mondello test it can throw the numbers off as well. Another area to look at is the valve opening device that is used to hold the valve a various lifts during the test. It should have a dial indicator installed on it and should be monitored during the test to see if the valve is being pulled/sucked open, (weak test springs). Make sure the exhaust valve isn't being sucked open during the test as well. As you can see, we have a lot of things going on during a test and each one is a player. An open port vs. a test pipe on the exhaust port can change numbers as well.

The fluid in the test columns, ( manometer) need to be zeroed out and the the flow meters level needs to be perfect.
Hope some of this helps
D.J.

LivernoisMotorsports

iTrader: (1)

The standards and issues you listed are good points OneQuickCoupe. We have always shot for the low side of the scale when it comes to advertising numbers so in most cases the heads should flow more than what we advertise. He is another thread as an example.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ight=livernois

But as others have said flow comparison is difficult in a lot of circumstances because of non-standard operating procedures. The list given by OneQuickCoupe shows some of the different things that can easily skew the numbers. This is fairly common but still we are interested in verifying these numbers to make sure that the heads are indeed everything they should be and nothing less. We have already spoken with matchstick in regards to getting more information as far as flow sheets and practices that were used flowing them. After we get a look at that info we will then be able to determine if we need to get the heads back into our shop for further testing.

We use both a 600 Superflow and a 1020 Superflow flowbench to do our flowwork and testing. We use both benches because they act differently with different heads and allow a broad range of testing to be done that we would not be able to achieve by using only one or the other. We also use sophisticated Superflow flow software as well as computer control of the benches. This takes operator error out of the equation since the flowbench directly sends data to the computer which then confirms the data by checking the known absolute settings. Also the software allows for extremely in depth flow analysis and examination of the port. The software measures numerous different data points and then calculates that data into port maps that show pressure differentials as well as airspeed. With the sophistication of the software it is entirely possible to spend weeks on and off the flowbench developing heads before they ever see there first dyno test evaluation.

As with anything though flow numbers really are not the end all when it comes to making power. There are so many factors that go into making power using flow as the only measurement would usually result in leaving some power on the table. Things like, port geometry, port volume, runner length, valvejob, throat diameter, etc. are all things that effect the power potential of the cylinder heads.

After we get more information on the techniques used to obtain the flow numbers we can than further investigate. If there is an issue for some reason we will make sure to make it right so that the customer gets everything that he paid for.

Thanks

Mike
Livernois Motorsports

matchstick

iTrader: (21)

Thanks again Mike. This is the best customer service I've ever recieved. I met the guys from Livernois at the LsX shootout, and you answered every question we asked. Exactly why I chose to go with your product.

Beaflag VonRathburg

iTrader: (176)

I didn't read those long posts, but here's your answer. Mondello CFM’s WFB2000 wet flow bench. Compare that to a superflow which from what I can muster from their vague descriptions are a dry bench.

66deuce

iTrader: (1)

what size bore did he flow them on,and was it the same size as the advertised flow nos.?

matchstick

iTrader: (21)

No they wee flowed on a Supeflow 1020. They don't have the fittings necessary to wet flow them. Although I have talked to them about getting what it takes to do that.

OneQuickCoupe

iTrader: (1)

The SF-600 that I have is dry flow. Super Flow makes a wet flow adaptor to convert any dry bench into a wet flow. http://www.superflow.com/flowbenches/index_999.cfm

D.J.

matchstick

iTrader: (21)

Mondello has both. If I'm not mistaken he is the one who invented the wet flow technology.

OneQuickCoupe

iTrader: (1)

If your interested in the relative fine points of wet flow you may want to read this. http://www.automotiverebuilder.com/ar/eb110670.htm

Darin Morgan and Joe Mondello give some insight on the subject.


D.J.

WizeAss

iTrader: (5)

they flowed em with the spark plug this time.

The difference is in benches.... do you realize how easy it is for 2 different individuals to get 2 totally different numbers... even on the same bench?

matchstick

iTrader: (21)

I think I stated that I knew that no two benches flowed the same. But on a good note Bret and Mike got together and came up with a solution to the problem. Thanks for all the input guy's.

Pwebbz28

iTrader: (31)

Got 395/280 out of mine this was on a SF 600

VH5150

wow