schwanke engines
10-09-2009, 06:25 PM
#121
I have explained it numerous times. If no one can understand it then that is fine but please do not try and put me down based on my spelling or age. Regardless, there are various things to "check". Piston to wall clearance, Ring Gap, bearing clearances, etc. If sponsors offer a "non - assembled" deal then i would take that. But i dont see that offered anywhere.
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10-09-2009, 06:35 PM
#122
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Agreed, but shortblocks are tough to warranty if the builder doesn not have the heads going on, he has no way of checking P to V clearnances, and cannot verify if everything is torqued down properly. That's like buying an engine from one place, the body from another, then asking one or the other to warrany the entire build.
If it is a long-block a warranty should be included, but any shortblock should not exhibit any visible tolerance issues when arriving to the customer. There should be no need to tear down anything to ensure it's assembled properly. That was the builder's responsibility and not the customer's, nor the installers.
If it is a long-block a warranty should be included, but any shortblock should not exhibit any visible tolerance issues when arriving to the customer. There should be no need to tear down anything to ensure it's assembled properly. That was the builder's responsibility and not the customer's, nor the installers.
10-10-2009, 10:19 PM
#123
Im not going to get anymore into it with you people because it is truly ridiculous. Everything you just said was a completely twisted version of what i said. I stated numerous times i did not think i was any "better" then any of the sponsors but you continue to put words in my mouth. Maybe its because your a site admin and you think you have the right to say whatever it is you want to people. But there is NOTHING wrong with checking the measurements and tolerances of the short block you purchase from any sponsor. My claim was that EVEN THE BEST SHOPS CAN AND WILL MAKE SOME MISTAKES. So if you think im "young" or an "idiot" or whatever you would prefer to call me for simply wanting to double check another shops work makes you either naive or just plain ignorant. Nobody is perfect in what they do. Everyone makes a mistake at some point. All im saying is that to be certain that you are not that mistake you should double check your short block or anything you purchase. All it seems you can actually do is claim i have no experience and that i have no idea what im double checking. If i make a mistake putting it back together then clearly that wasnt the shops fault. If i took it apart and found nothing out of spec then i couldnt blame the engine builder for the failure. And as far as pricing is concerned. I apologize for giving prices the average consumer can get parts for. The average customer does not get parts at cost unless they have some form of a connection in the industry. So my prices that i gave still stand for what it takes to order parts and have them shipped to your residence. Anyway. I rest my case here. Hope everyone has a fantastic day. I know i will.
10-11-2009, 01:12 PM
#124
Are you kidding me?? You forum junkies with your big "e-dicks" make me laugh. You guys throw things so far off topic its amazing boards like this still exist. It really doesn't make sense how my age has anything to do with double checking any work done by any shop, sponsor, designer, welder, etc etc. If you purchase things and just assume everything is perfect and just "lego" it together then I'm in fact the bigger idiot for lowering my standards to even argue with you. Enough said on the matter. I have better things to do then compare the size of my "e-dick" to yours because i will lose this battle. Your right about one thing though. You do have much more experience then me.... atleast on the forums blaming other people for breaking your motors rather then build one yourself. To any moderators or admins...... please close this thread. I fear there is no recovering it back to its original topic. To the OP, apologies for being part of **** storm that ruined your inquiry. Your best just contacting Schwanke over the phone to discuss motor builds. Good luck to you
10-11-2009, 02:03 PM
#125
I will agree that a company that builds a short block should be a quality product and you shoudln't haft to check their work. But in this case where it seems the company in question has had problems with QC that I would check things out on a short block just for piece of mind.
But I personally would buy the parts myself and have all the machine work done, it's not difficult at all to create your own company or find sum buddies that could get you the parts at cost and you wouldn't haft to go through the hassle of rebuilding an already built short block.
But I personally would buy the parts myself and have all the machine work done, it's not difficult at all to create your own company or find sum buddies that could get you the parts at cost and you wouldn't haft to go through the hassle of rebuilding an already built short block.
10-11-2009, 03:27 PM
#126
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evangto87,
I am curious as to just how much you can check without some disassembly of the shortblock? Not much. I turn my own wrenchs on everything i own but would never tear down an assembled short block to re-check.
But I will admit I almost tore down my performabuilt trans to check proper clearances and **** before I installed it but that would void the warranty. So I didn't
I am curious as to just how much you can check without some disassembly of the shortblock? Not much. I turn my own wrenchs on everything i own but would never tear down an assembled short block to re-check.
But I will admit I almost tore down my performabuilt trans to check proper clearances and **** before I installed it but that would void the warranty. So I didn't
10-11-2009, 05:43 PM
#127
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This thread has taken a drastic turn for the worse. I was coming in hoping to see what has happened with the problem at hand. Instead I arrive to witness a pissing contest.
10-12-2009, 05:19 PM
#129
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Im not going to get anymore into it with you people because it is truly ridiculous. Everything you just said was a completely twisted version of what i said. I stated numerous times i did not think i was any "better" then any of the sponsors but you continue to put words in my mouth. Maybe its because your a site admin and you think you have the right to say whatever it is you want to people. But there is NOTHING wrong with checking the measurements and tolerances of the short block you purchase from any sponsor. My claim was that EVEN THE BEST SHOPS CAN AND WILL MAKE SOME MISTAKES. So if you think im "young" or an "idiot" or whatever you would prefer to call me for simply wanting to double check another shops work makes you either naive or just plain ignorant. Nobody is perfect in what they do. Everyone makes a mistake at some point. All im saying is that to be certain that you are not that mistake you should double check your short block or anything you purchase. All it seems you can actually do is claim i have no experience and that i have no idea what im double checking. If i make a mistake putting it back together then clearly that wasnt the shops fault. If i took it apart and found nothing out of spec then i couldnt blame the engine builder for the failure. And as far as pricing is concerned. I apologize for giving prices the average consumer can get parts for. The average customer does not get parts at cost unless they have some form of a connection in the industry. So my prices that i gave still stand for what it takes to order parts and have them shipped to your residence. Anyway. I rest my case here. Hope everyone has a fantastic day. I know i will.
You then made numerous replies where you tried to justify your postion about any motor that is purchased by anyone needing to be torn down and checked. So, your opinion is that anyone who buys a motor needs to tear the motor down (even if that person has no idea what they are doing). If they do not, they are lazy, and are equally to blame for an issue.
As I said earlier. If you want to tear down your motor, thats fine. Thats your cartainly an option open to YOU. But, where I take issue with it is the assertion that anyone who doesn't follow your lead is lazy, and also to blame.
Something we can both agree on is that humans do make mistakes. But, there are steps that if followed can virtually eliminate all the items you listed. its called a build sheet. When you build an engine, you document everything as you do it. Then you verify your work. When you do this, you virtually eliminate the chances of an issue with a missed clearance, or a torque value.
BTW, that is only a partial build sheet. Ther eis about twice that much info when its all done.I know a lot of builders who won't or don't this becuase its time consuming. But, if a motor comes apart you have documented proof of what it was when it left your hands.
The issue from a engine builder's perspective if you tear apart the motor they did for you and re-assmeble it is they have no idea of the skillset of the end user. You can always say "I know all about engines" but what you really know is relative.... People's curiosity outstrips their abilities all the time.
The biggest issues I see with most builds (shops or individuals) are people not keeping engines clean during assembly. I see this a lot more often than wrong clearances.
You end up with trash in an oil galley and it eats the motor alive very quickly. I saw a 408" motor last week that someone had installed an intake of a blown up 346. They failed to clean out the intake, and upon initial firing of the engine it swallowed some debris from the old motor and broke a piston on a brand new motor.
I saw another 408 recently that the bearings were eaten up in. We had to pull the reluctor ring off the crank and found that the crank had been shot blasted, and the shot was stuck up behind the crank. Again, improper prep.
Evan, the point is is your came into the thread and offered your opinion as the only right one. i.e. if you buy it and don't check it, you are at fault. You can say I'm trying to flex some e-muscle, or whatever. The point I'm trying to make here is that not everyone has the time or inclination to tear apart a brand new motor to check the work of the builder who did the work. The idea behind paying someone to build an engine is to avoid having to do that to start with.
Now, are you wrong for doing an inspection of your motor (once you get one). No, you are not. In fact, I commend you on taking the initiative to learn something. But, the whole point is the folks who are unwilling, or unable to do so are not "guilty", or at fault, despite your opinion to the contrary.
Also, I fully appreciate that when someone spends the money on an engine, they want it to be "right". I think everyone is entitled to that. But, the issue I see is that there is there are a lot of folks on both sides of the fence (both shops/builders and end users) who don't have a clue what they are doing, or just don't care.
I am going to make this the last post in this thread since it has gotten so woefully offtrack. If the OP wants to opena new thread, feel free. If so, I'd like to see it remain factual and not be based on hersay or 3rd hand info.
