TFS-220 flow nosedive
TFS-220 flow nosedive I have a question about some heads I bought off someone on here. I bought a set of TFS-220 as cast with some light hand porting. Pics https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-cla...t-heads-2.html
I had them checked out and the shop told me they had some cutter marks in the bowls and it was causing some turbulence/separation of air causing a nosedive of flow after .610" of lift or so. Here are the flow numbers for 2 ports.
Lift CFM
.100 68 67
.200 143 141
.300 216 214
.400 265 261
.500 296 290
.600 310 301
.650 276 280
Needless to say I am going to have to pay some money to have them cleaned up. Do you think the subpar porting is killing the flow after 600? I have seen another post with the flow numbers nosediving pretty early also. Should I pay the money to have them cleaned up even tho I'm not sure how much more flow I can get out of them? I'm putting them on a 421 mild build ls2 based engine.
I had them checked out and the shop told me they had some cutter marks in the bowls and it was causing some turbulence/separation of air causing a nosedive of flow after .610" of lift or so. Here are the flow numbers for 2 ports.
Lift CFM
.100 68 67
.200 143 141
.300 216 214
.400 265 261
.500 296 290
.600 310 301
.650 276 280
Needless to say I am going to have to pay some money to have them cleaned up. Do you think the subpar porting is killing the flow after 600? I have seen another post with the flow numbers nosediving pretty early also. Should I pay the money to have them cleaned up even tho I'm not sure how much more flow I can get out of them? I'm putting them on a 421 mild build ls2 based engine.
as casts flow numbers are very good, and will outperform any other cathedral port head.........yhat being said, if you are doing a buiild id say no more than 500-550 rwhp, id leave them as is. if you were doing more than that, than you should either get them reworked, or startlooking into an ls3 style head. Personally tho, rather than puttingmoney into a very well performing head, id save the 500 bucks, resell them. then for a few hundred more pickup some stage 1or 2 ls3 heads that will flow a good amount better. you cantbeat the rectangular port heads. an ls3 intake,rails, and injectors can all be had for under 350 on ebay, and thats all you need for the swap.....if thats what you owuldchoose to do
I have a question about some heads I bought off someone on here. I bought a set of TFS-220 as cast with some light hand porting. Pics https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-cla...t-heads-2.html
I had them checked out and the shop told me they had some cutter marks in the bowls and it was causing some turbulence/separation of air causing a nosedive of flow after .610" of lift or so. Here are the flow numbers for 2 ports.
Lift CFM
.100 68 67
.200 143 141
.300 216 214
.400 265 261
.500 296 290
.600 310 301
.650 276 280
Needless to say I am going to have to pay some money to have them cleaned up. Do you think the subpar porting is killing the flow after 600? I have seen another post with the flow numbers nosediving pretty early also. Should I pay the money to have them cleaned up even tho I'm not sure how much more flow I can get out of them? I'm putting them on a 421 mild build ls2 based engine.
I had them checked out and the shop told me they had some cutter marks in the bowls and it was causing some turbulence/separation of air causing a nosedive of flow after .610" of lift or so. Here are the flow numbers for 2 ports.
Lift CFM
.100 68 67
.200 143 141
.300 216 214
.400 265 261
.500 296 290
.600 310 301
.650 276 280
Needless to say I am going to have to pay some money to have them cleaned up. Do you think the subpar porting is killing the flow after 600? I have seen another post with the flow numbers nosediving pretty early also. Should I pay the money to have them cleaned up even tho I'm not sure how much more flow I can get out of them? I'm putting them on a 421 mild build ls2 based engine.
check out this thread with stock as cast flow numbers......you really picked up on the exhasut side......yea i mean if you want you czn run them and youd be fine.....as the other guy said tho, those heads are primarily for stock cube motors.....thats when they shine most
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IMHO you pay for what you get...these heads were 1500 dollars or less... and it looks like his porting method was a dremel taken to the mouth of the intake port opening. I dont see any port work on down in the runner or by where the guide/valve stem is. These might as well be as cast. There is a reason reputable good head porters make good money...and its not just because they take a dremel to the mouth of an intake port.
Comparison:
Your "ported" Trick Flows
My "ported" All-Pros
Intake
Exhaust
Im not saying my heads are the best hand porting job ever but there is definitely a difference in "porting"
They are for sale btw...hahaha sorry
https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-cla...assembled.html
Comparison:
Your "ported" Trick Flows
My "ported" All-Pros
Intake
Exhaust
Im not saying my heads are the best hand porting job ever but there is definitely a difference in "porting"
They are for sale btw...hahaha sorry
https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-cla...assembled.html
IMHO you pay for what you get...these heads were 1500 dollars or less... and it looks like his porting method was a dremel taken to the mouth of the intake port opening. I dont see any port work on down in the runner or by where the guide/valve stem is. These might as well be as cast. There is a reason reputable good head porters make good money...and its not just because they take a dremel to the mouth of an intake port.
Comparison:
Your "ported" Trick Flows
My "ported" All-Pros
Intake
Exhaust
Im not saying my heads are the best hand porting job ever but there is definitely a difference in "porting"
They are for sale btw...hahaha sorry
https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-cla...assembled.html
Comparison:
Your "ported" Trick Flows
My "ported" All-Pros
Intake
Exhaust
Im not saying my heads are the best hand porting job ever but there is definitely a difference in "porting"
They are for sale btw...hahaha sorry
https://ls1tech.com/forums/parts-cla...assembled.html
When ppl do hand porting on the TFS 220 hand cast they don't port everything, most just a bowl blend and some minor touch up.
I wasn't trying to knock you or anything. I was just saying what the ppl at TEA where doing to get some decent flow numbers out of the heads. They were getting 320's flow at .600 with some really good midlift numbers at 220cc's. On street car with a FAST, I will take the midlift numbers and smaller intake runner for some good throttle response and torque.
If I were installing a set of TFS 220 as cast heads on a 421, I would send them to TEA first and have them reworked for a big inch motor.
Do you think the subpar porting is killing the flow after 600? I have seen another post with the flow numbers nosediving pretty early also. Should I pay the money to have them cleaned up even tho I'm not sure how much more flow I can get out of them? I'm putting them on a 421 mild build ls2 based engine.
Looks like they have been rubbed on with a cartridge roll, not ported/altered appreciably. If that is the case then it is likely a good thing since so many do more harm than good. Whether it is worth modifying them depends on your goals. They do have the potential to be improved significantly: http://www.advancedinduction.com/Ima..._Flowsheet.png
Good luck!
-Phil
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 300
Likes: 18
The TFS 220 LS2's we have measured have a 4.06X" chamber. That along with a myriad of other variables can do all sorts of things to reported flow #'s. Furthermore you're testing as cast heads that are going to be inherently inconsistent insofar as racing the flow bench is concerned. Fortunately, your engine isn't an overgrown vacuum cleaner.
Looks like they have been rubbed on with a cartridge roll, not ported/altered appreciably. If that is the case then it is likely a good thing since so many do more harm than good. Whether it is worth modifying them depends on your goals. They do have the potential to be improved significantly: http://www.advancedinduction.com/Ima..._Flowsheet.png
Good luck!
-Phil
Looks like they have been rubbed on with a cartridge roll, not ported/altered appreciably. If that is the case then it is likely a good thing since so many do more harm than good. Whether it is worth modifying them depends on your goals. They do have the potential to be improved significantly: http://www.advancedinduction.com/Ima..._Flowsheet.png
Good luck!
-Phil
__________________
The TFS 220 LS2's we have measured have a 4.06X" chamber. That along with a myriad of other variables can do all sorts of things to reported flow #'s. Furthermore you're testing as cast heads that are going to be inherently inconsistent insofar as racing the flow bench is concerned. Fortunately, your engine isn't an overgrown vacuum cleaner.
Looks like they have been rubbed on with a cartridge roll, not ported/altered appreciably. If that is the case then it is likely a good thing since so many do more harm than good. Whether it is worth modifying them depends on your goals. They do have the potential to be improved significantly: http://www.advancedinduction.com/Ima..._Flowsheet.png
Good luck!
-Phil
Looks like they have been rubbed on with a cartridge roll, not ported/altered appreciably. If that is the case then it is likely a good thing since so many do more harm than good. Whether it is worth modifying them depends on your goals. They do have the potential to be improved significantly: http://www.advancedinduction.com/Ima..._Flowsheet.png
Good luck!
-Phil
I had Matt at 510 race engineering here in Houston fix some of the cutter marks and blend the ports a little. Results are pretty good I think.
Intake: Average Intake CFM. 4" bore. Intake cc is around 222 or so, going to measure in a few days.
.100 70
.200 145
.300 221
.400 272
.500 307
.600 314
.650 313
Exhaust: He didn't touch the exhaust but here is the average CFM.
.100 58
.200 115
.300 180
.400 215
.500 230
.600 242
.650 245
Intake: Average Intake CFM. 4" bore. Intake cc is around 222 or so, going to measure in a few days.
.100 70
.200 145
.300 221
.400 272
.500 307
.600 314
.650 313
Exhaust: He didn't touch the exhaust but here is the average CFM.
.100 58
.200 115
.300 180
.400 215
.500 230
.600 242
.650 245
Last edited by FlamingTA; Jul 30, 2011 at 02:16 PM. Reason: adding info
Good resurection job... But those numbers are more at home with an ls1, a 400 plus ci displacement flow numbers should be more in the 350 plus cfm with intake ports no larger than 240 for cathedral and around 270 for ls3 style ports, wish are my favorite.