Budget 6.0 build questions
Budget 6.0 build questions Ok so I am a little new to building a LSX motor done a few BB and SB chevys never a LSX so sorry if my questions seem stupid.
I picked up a 6.0 from a 02 2500 and i am wanting to get around 500 wheel power out of it and then spray it another 2-250 shot for a total of 750 rwhp. So I was doing a little research and am thinking of sticking with the 317 heads and having a little shaved off of them to clean them up and then port and polish and a valve job done. Then bore the 6.0 .30 out and since I am boring out the motor I am getting a set of forged pistons that will bump comp. to 11.1 that way I dont mess the flow up by shaving to much off the bottem of the heads to raise comp. Then I want to get a big bump stick with 640-650 lift and 109-110 lobe sep. to get that rumpity rump . so questions are
1. What Intake / TB combo do I need to run to reach Hp #s ?
2. Can I reach my HP #s ?
3. What am I leaving out to make this happen ?
Ant help would be great thanx mike
I picked up a 6.0 from a 02 2500 and i am wanting to get around 500 wheel power out of it and then spray it another 2-250 shot for a total of 750 rwhp. So I was doing a little research and am thinking of sticking with the 317 heads and having a little shaved off of them to clean them up and then port and polish and a valve job done. Then bore the 6.0 .30 out and since I am boring out the motor I am getting a set of forged pistons that will bump comp. to 11.1 that way I dont mess the flow up by shaving to much off the bottem of the heads to raise comp. Then I want to get a big bump stick with 640-650 lift and 109-110 lobe sep. to get that rumpity rump . so questions are
1. What Intake / TB combo do I need to run to reach Hp #s ?
2. Can I reach my HP #s ?
3. What am I leaving out to make this happen ?
Ant help would be great thanx mike
Ok so I am a little new to building a LSX motor done a few BB and SB chevys never a LSX so sorry if my questions seem stupid.
I picked up a 6.0 from a 02 2500 and i am wanting to get around 500 wheel power out of it and then spray it another 2-250 shot for a total of 750 rwhp. So I was doing a little research and am thinking of sticking with the 317 heads and having a little shaved off of them to clean them up and then port and polish and a valve job done. Then bore the 6.0 .30 out and since I am boring out the motor I am getting a set of forged pistons that will bump comp. to 11.1 that way I dont mess the flow up by shaving to much off the bottem of the heads to raise comp. Then I want to get a big bump stick with 640-650 lift and 109-110 lobe sep. to get that rumpity rump . so questions are
1. What Intake / TB combo do I need to run to reach Hp #s ?
2. Can I reach my HP #s ?
3. What am I leaving out to make this happen ?
Ant help would be great thanx mike
I picked up a 6.0 from a 02 2500 and i am wanting to get around 500 wheel power out of it and then spray it another 2-250 shot for a total of 750 rwhp. So I was doing a little research and am thinking of sticking with the 317 heads and having a little shaved off of them to clean them up and then port and polish and a valve job done. Then bore the 6.0 .30 out and since I am boring out the motor I am getting a set of forged pistons that will bump comp. to 11.1 that way I dont mess the flow up by shaving to much off the bottem of the heads to raise comp. Then I want to get a big bump stick with 640-650 lift and 109-110 lobe sep. to get that rumpity rump . so questions are
1. What Intake / TB combo do I need to run to reach Hp #s ?
2. Can I reach my HP #s ?
3. What am I leaving out to make this happen ?
Ant help would be great thanx mike
Or you can do it the hard way like myself and go on a little cheaper budget. My motor setup is LS2 block, stock crank, Callies Rods, Wiseco Pistons, Trick Flow 225's, and a FAST 102. That combo has proven to make 500 in a LS2 time and time again. Little cheaper then a stroker but with a stroker you are going to gain a massive amount of torque and a few more HP then this combo.
I have listed the main items that you need but its all the small things that add up to make it expensive such as gaskets, ARP bolts, sensors, covers, and all the other small things. Hope this helps you out some.
Gonna need LS3 heads. Even stock ones will do that. LS3 intake ported should do the job. Cam in the high 230s/low 240s should get you there. I was building a LQ9 with LS3 top end and a Comp cam w/227 @ .05o and was expecting 530-540 @ the flywheel, STOCK bottom end, stock intake, stock TB. More compression, ported intake and bigger cam should get you there no problem.
i have a 6.0 bored .30 over to a 408 with a .590/.590 lift 112lsa cam ls6 heads and intake
(unported) i put down 504hp to the wheels and 511tq engine itself made 605hp at the flywheel
(unported) i put down 504hp to the wheels and 511tq engine itself made 605hp at the flywheel
For 500whp I would definitely look into building a 408 stroker using that block. It is very tough to do that with a stock stroke crank so I usually recommend guys look at the 408s. I would also look into at least getting the heads ported or looking into an aftermarket set. Those kind of hp numbers will require some decent flow from the heads. Building a 408 will also allow you to spray the motor farther if you want, it will have a forged rotating assembly so holding power is less of a worry.
A 408 would get you there easily, but if you were willing to go higher with the compression(11.5-11.8) and use a bigger cam like you were wanting to keep the dynamic down in a safe region for pump gas and use a set of ported LS3 heads 500rwhp can be made, but it will be a tough road to follow. A singe plane would help get you there easier than a stock style intake will.
A cam for what you're looking for would look something like this:
239/248 .624/.595 111+3. This is with a stock style intake.
For a single plane I would do 243/252 .624/.595 111+3.
Neither of these will really be DD friendly and would require fly cutting, but if you want 500rwhp out of a 6.0 you're going to need a big cam. Both of these fit the bill and I can have either ground for you.
I'd still go with the 408 if you want to spray that much as 750rwhp is going to not be reliable for a long time in a stock bottom end build although some have done it before.
A cam for what you're looking for would look something like this:
239/248 .624/.595 111+3. This is with a stock style intake.
For a single plane I would do 243/252 .624/.595 111+3.
Neither of these will really be DD friendly and would require fly cutting, but if you want 500rwhp out of a 6.0 you're going to need a big cam. Both of these fit the bill and I can have either ground for you.
I'd still go with the 408 if you want to spray that much as 750rwhp is going to not be reliable for a long time in a stock bottom end build although some have done it before.
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I really dont think I will have the money to do a 408 more of a .30 out 6.0 I dont mind haveing the 317 full race ported or going to a ls3 intake/head setup. and I can go BIG cam I am fine with that the heads will be off so flycutting no big deal what does the 111+3 mean . (Never had a +3 cam) and is 111 the lopist cam I can go this car is a show / track car not a whole lot of DD going on. so wild is ok also car is a 6 speed. Thanx for all the help.
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Verdad Gallardo I really dont think I will have the money to do a 408 more of a .30 out 6.0 I dont mind haveing the 317 full race ported or going to a ls3 intake/head setup. and I can go BIG cam I am fine with that the heads will be off so flycutting no big deal what does the 111+3 mean . (Never had a +3 cam) and is 111 the lopist cam I can go this car is a show / track car not a whole lot of DD going on. so wild is ok also car is a 6 speed. Thanx for all the help.
I'd like to see you have the heads milled a good bit and get the compression around 11.8:1-11.9:1 static. A cam as big as the one you're wanting will drop the dynamic compression down a lot which will make it ok to use pump gas at this static compression level.
The +3 after the 111 lobe separation stands for how much intake center line advance is ground into the cam.
We could go tighter on the LSA, but 111lsa is going to chop fairly well.
Here is my car with a 239/247 .624/.624 110+0 idling in my driveway:
http://youtu.be/fgTfMt6HBZk
If you really wanted to make the ground shake and have a solid 500rwhp ride on your hands here is what I'd do:
11.9:1 SCR
Find the most aggressive port program you can find for whatever stock casting heads you run, it'd be easier to start with a set of 243's or LS3's even(cam specifications will change for LS3 heads) and sell the 317's to a guy with a boosted set-up wanting to lower his compression.
Single plane intake with a 4150 style TB(accufab, wilson etc.)
243/252 .624/.595 111+3 which has 2.5 more degrees of overlap than mine, expect it to sound identical. I'd like to keep the lsa a little broader to kick the exhaust valve event open a little sooner.
Last edited by Sales@Tick; Sep 2, 2012 at 09:30 PM.
On The Tree
Joined: May 2010
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From: THE GARDEN STATE
i think thats a lot of work and money to invest to get to a relative small gain just to have t o smack it with a hit of laughing gas to get the horsepower that may prove to be fatal on a stock bottom end im not sure of the aplication but i have seen through many different post and articles that guys get there with less buy simply adding some boost which can be had on the cheap to start and be improved upon with a few upgrades in the boost system you choose without affecting the drivability of the vehicle on a day to day basis. http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...lock_for_3252/ take a look at this for starters. Or you can go this direction for improved air intake and under the hood temps. http://www.ststurbo.com/universal_turbo_systems. I am not hijacking your post but the hp capability of these motors in stock to mild build configuration with boost has made me change my approach to the way i look at forced air. just a suggestion from a guy who has been down the road your going.
Last edited by boogiewonderland; Sep 4, 2012 at 02:37 PM. Reason: typo
Fwiw I have a stock lq9 bottom end, I milled the ***** off my stock 317's (.100) and flycut my pistons, made 450whp through a th400 and 5200 stall.. You can def attain your goals with ported castings..
With a 6 speed I don't see why you couldn't clear 490-500rwhp.
It runs pretty good for what I got in it.. There's alot of bogus bs out there, hard for folks to weed through fact or "fiction" if u know what I mean.. A well thought out combo.. Lemme say it again combo will always trump a bunch of stuff thrown together..
A lot of people have it in their minds that a camshaft has to have this amount of split or it has to have this amount of duration or this LSA and this advance.
You have to give the engine what it wants for the combination you are dealing with and the valve events that corresponds with those wants.
It's funny the thing you read on here that won't work.. Like small lsa.. Ahem mines on a 105.5 lol idles at 1100 smooth as a babies bottom , gets 16.5 mpg too lol as long as you have fun and learn something it's worth it.. Most should really look at their converter choices more so than magic camshaft.. Converter will make or break your combo in a split second.. We've gone 11.0 on bolt ons, it was more converter than horsepower.. Obviously light car too .. But all the power in the world goin through a crap converter will mean nothing..
It's funny the thing you read on here that won't work.. Like small lsa.. Ahem mines on a 105.5 lol idles at 1100 smooth as a babies bottom , gets 16.5 mpg too lol as long as you have fun and learn something it's worth it.. Most should really look at their converter choices more so than magic camshaft.. Converter will make or break your combo in a split second.. We've gone 11.0 on bolt ons, it was more converter than horsepower.. Obviously light car too .. But all the power in the world goin through a crap converter will mean nothing..
A lot of times I lose a sale that way and have plenty times already, but I'd rather get someone what will truly make there car fastest and get the most out of their current set-up than make a quick sale just to satisfy what they think they need or want.