Calling all Mechanics
02-21-2014, 02:20 PM
#1
Launching!
Thread Starter
Calling all Mechanics On a 5th gen, what's easier (assuming a well equipped shop with all necessary tools).
Swapping heads, lifters, pushrods or doing a full engine swap. I know that seems like a no brainer but maybe not.
Trying to figure out some labor expense.
Swapping heads, lifters, pushrods or doing a full engine swap. I know that seems like a no brainer but maybe not.
Trying to figure out some labor expense.
Last edited by FLYZNTN; 02-21-2014 at 03:16 PM.
02-21-2014, 04:03 PM
#2
Full engine swap especially after considering all the other small things that add up quick and all the upgrades you'll want to do "while the engine is out". I speak of this from experience lol
02-21-2014, 04:17 PM
#3
Launching!
Thread Starter
That's kind of where I'm at. I've been contemplating a motor upgrade for a while but haven't been able to pull the trigger. Now however, I've developed a tick (only when warm) that I'm thinking is a lifter so I have to pull the heads anyway... might as well upgrade. That said, if labor for pulling the heads is the same as swapping the motor.... might be the push I need to do the whole motor. Hmmmm.
02-21-2014, 06:16 PM
#4
Story of my life. Developed a tick, eh fu** it I'll throw in an LS2. Here I am a year later and thou$and$ lighter lol...I will say it has been a fun experience and I did take a couple breaks due to a busy lifestyle. If I had to do it over again I would take the same route
02-21-2014, 06:20 PM
#5
ENGINE REPLACEMENT
Complete Assembly Without Transfer Of Parts
Manual Trans B 6.8 9.8
Does Not Include: Transfer Of Any Part Of Engine Or Replacement Of Optional Equipment.
Auto Trans B 7.5 10.8
Does Not Include: Transfer Of Any Part Of Engine Or Replacement Of Optional Equipment.
Complete Assembly With Transfer Of Parts
Manual Trans B 8.6 12.8
Includes: Transfer All Fuel And Electrical Units. Does Not Include: Transfer Of Optional Equipment.
Auto Trans B 9.4 13.8
Includes: Transfer All Fuel And Electrical Units. Does Not Include: Transfer Of Optional Equipment.
Long Block
Manual Trans B 0.0 17.8
Includes: R&I Engine And Transfer All Necessary Components Not Supplied With Long Block.
Auto Trans B 0.0 18.8
Includes: R&I Engine And Transfer All Necessary Components Not Supplied With Long Block.
cylinderhead
Replace
Right Bank A 4.5 7.7
Includes: R&I Cylinder Head, Grind Or Renew Valves, Transfer All Necessary Components & Make All Adjustments.
Left Bank A 4.9 8.2
Includes: R&I Cylinder Head, Grind Or Renew Valves, Transfer All Necessary Components & Make All Adjustments.
Both Banks A 0.0 12.9
Includes: R&I Cylinder Head, Grind Or Renew Valves, Transfer All Necessary Components & Make All Adjustments.
hope that helps.
Complete Assembly Without Transfer Of Parts
Manual Trans B 6.8 9.8
Does Not Include: Transfer Of Any Part Of Engine Or Replacement Of Optional Equipment.
Auto Trans B 7.5 10.8
Does Not Include: Transfer Of Any Part Of Engine Or Replacement Of Optional Equipment.
Complete Assembly With Transfer Of Parts
Manual Trans B 8.6 12.8
Includes: Transfer All Fuel And Electrical Units. Does Not Include: Transfer Of Optional Equipment.
Auto Trans B 9.4 13.8
Includes: Transfer All Fuel And Electrical Units. Does Not Include: Transfer Of Optional Equipment.
Long Block
Manual Trans B 0.0 17.8
Includes: R&I Engine And Transfer All Necessary Components Not Supplied With Long Block.
Auto Trans B 0.0 18.8
Includes: R&I Engine And Transfer All Necessary Components Not Supplied With Long Block.
cylinderhead
Replace
Right Bank A 4.5 7.7
Includes: R&I Cylinder Head, Grind Or Renew Valves, Transfer All Necessary Components & Make All Adjustments.
Left Bank A 4.9 8.2
Includes: R&I Cylinder Head, Grind Or Renew Valves, Transfer All Necessary Components & Make All Adjustments.
Both Banks A 0.0 12.9
Includes: R&I Cylinder Head, Grind Or Renew Valves, Transfer All Necessary Components & Make All Adjustments.
hope that helps.
02-21-2014, 07:47 PM
#6
I am now in the middle of what will be a swap (thanks to a failed valve spring) and it seems like it may end being more work. There gets to be a lot going on when you start thinking about removing all the accessories, disconnecting the harness, dropping the drivetrain, and so on.
What I would ask is what are your goals? A ton of power and reliability can be had by doing intake, cam, headers, and tune. If the short block assembly is in good shape and you are not going crazy with boost or nitrous then I would seriously consider not swapping the engine.
02-22-2014, 07:09 AM
#7
Launching!
Thread Starter
ENGINE REPLACEMENT
Complete Assembly Without Transfer Of Parts
Manual Trans B 6.8 9.8
Does Not Include: Transfer Of Any Part Of Engine Or Replacement Of Optional Equipment.
Auto Trans B 7.5 10.8
Does Not Include: Transfer Of Any Part Of Engine Or Replacement Of Optional Equipment.
Complete Assembly With Transfer Of Parts
Manual Trans B 8.6 12.8
Includes: Transfer All Fuel And Electrical Units. Does Not Include: Transfer Of Optional Equipment.
Auto Trans B 9.4 13.8
Includes: Transfer All Fuel And Electrical Units. Does Not Include: Transfer Of Optional Equipment.
Long Block
Manual Trans B 0.0 17.8
Includes: R&I Engine And Transfer All Necessary Components Not Supplied With Long Block.
Auto Trans B 0.0 18.8
Includes: R&I Engine And Transfer All Necessary Components Not Supplied With Long Block.
cylinderhead
Replace
Right Bank A 4.5 7.7
Includes: R&I Cylinder Head, Grind Or Renew Valves, Transfer All Necessary Components & Make All Adjustments.
Left Bank A 4.9 8.2
Includes: R&I Cylinder Head, Grind Or Renew Valves, Transfer All Necessary Components & Make All Adjustments.
Both Banks A 0.0 12.9
Includes: R&I Cylinder Head, Grind Or Renew Valves, Transfer All Necessary Components & Make All Adjustments.
hope that helps.
Complete Assembly Without Transfer Of Parts
Manual Trans B 6.8 9.8
Does Not Include: Transfer Of Any Part Of Engine Or Replacement Of Optional Equipment.
Auto Trans B 7.5 10.8
Does Not Include: Transfer Of Any Part Of Engine Or Replacement Of Optional Equipment.
Complete Assembly With Transfer Of Parts
Manual Trans B 8.6 12.8
Includes: Transfer All Fuel And Electrical Units. Does Not Include: Transfer Of Optional Equipment.
Auto Trans B 9.4 13.8
Includes: Transfer All Fuel And Electrical Units. Does Not Include: Transfer Of Optional Equipment.
Long Block
Manual Trans B 0.0 17.8
Includes: R&I Engine And Transfer All Necessary Components Not Supplied With Long Block.
Auto Trans B 0.0 18.8
Includes: R&I Engine And Transfer All Necessary Components Not Supplied With Long Block.
cylinderhead
Replace
Right Bank A 4.5 7.7
Includes: R&I Cylinder Head, Grind Or Renew Valves, Transfer All Necessary Components & Make All Adjustments.
Left Bank A 4.9 8.2
Includes: R&I Cylinder Head, Grind Or Renew Valves, Transfer All Necessary Components & Make All Adjustments.
Both Banks A 0.0 12.9
Includes: R&I Cylinder Head, Grind Or Renew Valves, Transfer All Necessary Components & Make All Adjustments.
hope that helps.
There would be no valve work on the heads but springs would be swapped. I would definitely do a long block if I went in that direction. So, looks like "about" 18 hours for an engine swap and 12 for a head swap. That's not that bad of a difference.
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02-22-2014, 07:29 AM
#8
Launching!
Thread Starter
Having done the cam, intake, headers, and associated pieces with the engine in the car I can tell you it is not all that difficult and a reputable shop should be able to do what you suggest in a day, maybe less.
I am now in the middle of what will be a swap (thanks to a failed valve spring) and it seems like it may end being more work. There gets to be a lot going on when you start thinking about removing all the accessories, disconnecting the harness, dropping the drivetrain, and so on.
What I would ask is what are your goals? A ton of power and reliability can be had by doing intake, cam, headers, and tune. If the short block assembly is in good shape and you are not going crazy with boost or nitrous then I would seriously consider not swapping the engine.
I am now in the middle of what will be a swap (thanks to a failed valve spring) and it seems like it may end being more work. There gets to be a lot going on when you start thinking about removing all the accessories, disconnecting the harness, dropping the drivetrain, and so on.
What I would ask is what are your goals? A ton of power and reliability can be had by doing intake, cam, headers, and tune. If the short block assembly is in good shape and you are not going crazy with boost or nitrous then I would seriously consider not swapping the engine.
So, I need to fix the lifter so the heads are coming off. Minimally, I'll replace the lifters with some higher end pieces and put the factory heads back on. But, if the heads are coming off then now would be a good time to replace them with some Trick Flows. I think if I go this route (heads, lifters, pushrods) and add methanol I can gain an additional 50 horsepower (might have to drop down a pulley size on the blower). That said, it still is on a non-forged stock bottom end. Doing a long block should allow me to get to 750 with a forged 416 and Trick Flow heads maybe with or without the methanol injection.
The long block is substantially more expensive but, I'd been kicking it around for a while and if I only did the heads eventually I'd end up going back in for a short block .........
I've just about talked myself into it.
Last edited by FLYZNTN; 02-22-2014 at 07:37 AM.
02-22-2014, 09:15 AM
#9
The goal is to get the car to 750 rwhp and have good reliability. It sits at 650 right now with a Whipple, Cam, Springs, Headers and Exhaust.
So, I need to fix the lifter so the heads are coming off. Minimally, I'll replace the lifters with some higher end pieces and put the factory heads back on. But, if the heads are coming off then now would be a good time to replace them with some Trick Flows. I think if I go this route (heads, lifters, pushrods) and add methanol I can gain an additional 50 horsepower (might have to drop down a pulley size on the blower). That said, it still is on a non-forged stock bottom end. Doing a long block should allow me to get to 750 with a forged 416 and Trick Flow heads maybe with or without the methanol injection.
The long block is substantially more expensive but, I'd been kicking it around for a while and if I only did the heads eventually I'd end up going back in for a short block .........
I've just about talked myself into it.
So, I need to fix the lifter so the heads are coming off. Minimally, I'll replace the lifters with some higher end pieces and put the factory heads back on. But, if the heads are coming off then now would be a good time to replace them with some Trick Flows. I think if I go this route (heads, lifters, pushrods) and add methanol I can gain an additional 50 horsepower (might have to drop down a pulley size on the blower). That said, it still is on a non-forged stock bottom end. Doing a long block should allow me to get to 750 with a forged 416 and Trick Flow heads maybe with or without the methanol injection.
The long block is substantially more expensive but, I'd been kicking it around for a while and if I only did the heads eventually I'd end up going back in for a short block .........
I've just about talked myself into it.
. Plenty of people running stock bottom ends at that power level but if it were me, I wouldn't chance it. You'll be awfully ticked with yourself if the rotating assembly lets go and you didn't beef it up when you had the chance. Plus, when you are getting into that power range with boost there are some definite changes that would normally be considered required such as steel top rings on the pistons, improved connecting rods, and ARP fasteners to name a few. Careful about over-boring with boost on the stock LS3/L99 setup. Not a lot of material there to begin with. Also upgrade to ARP on the head bolts to help with clamping force. You might consider a block with six bolt heads for boost and cylinder sealing. That means moving to an LSA, LS7, or LSX block from GM or going aftermarket. Lots to think about when the power levels start to increase closer to the 4 digit mark.
02-22-2014, 10:02 AM
#10
Launching!
Thread Starter
Well sounds like you have just about talked yourself into it. . Plenty of people running stock bottom ends at that power level but if it were me, I wouldn't chance it. You'll be awfully ticked with yourself if the rotating assembly lets go and you didn't beef it up when you had the chance. Plus, when you are getting into that power range with boost there are some definite changes that would normally be considered required such as steel top rings on the pistons, improved connecting rods, and ARP fasteners to name a few. Careful about over-boring with boost on the stock LS3/L99 setup. Not a lot of material there to begin with. Also upgrade to ARP on the head bolts to help with clamping force. You might consider a block with six bolt heads for boost and cylinder sealing. That means moving to an LSA, LS7, or LSX block from GM or going aftermarket. Lots to think about when the power levels start to increase closer to the 4 digit mark.
. Plenty of people running stock bottom ends at that power level but if it were me, I wouldn't chance it. You'll be awfully ticked with yourself if the rotating assembly lets go and you didn't beef it up when you had the chance. Plus, when you are getting into that power range with boost there are some definite changes that would normally be considered required such as steel top rings on the pistons, improved connecting rods, and ARP fasteners to name a few. Careful about over-boring with boost on the stock LS3/L99 setup. Not a lot of material there to begin with. Also upgrade to ARP on the head bolts to help with clamping force. You might consider a block with six bolt heads for boost and cylinder sealing. That means moving to an LSA, LS7, or LSX block from GM or going aftermarket. Lots to think about when the power levels start to increase closer to the 4 digit mark.
02-22-2014, 11:22 AM
#11
Sorry, I should have clarified that a little better. LSA block and heads are 4 bolt style but there are improvements to handle the boost. Heads in particular are a different casting process said to give them about 20% increase in strength and improved low rpm flow do to a "wing" cast into the intake runner helping swirl. I believe the block has some changes in the material and cast to help with bay breathing on the bottom end as well. Either way, if you are looking to handle big boost you are still looking at resleeving to incorporate a ductile iron sleeve for added strength. ERL website has some good information on the process and offers varying degrees of affordability. They are but one of many manufacturers doing so.