lil john

Well I would like a new cam with the High Tech .420 lobe profiles but now shooting for a new # number I would like to have Martin @ Tick or Pat G. make me another cam yet I would like to have a Major part in making my cam so any help would be Greatly appreciated.... Super Vic intake is on the way so replace the Vic Jr . The car is a G Body Cutlass with a 4L80e trans with a 4000 single disc stall and 3.91rear end. The cam I'm thinking of is the profiles I've listed above new cam numbers I've thought of look like this .268/.276 or 272/280 @ .050 with the lift remaining @ .757 and a LSA of 112+ 4. This is Not a track car it will have A/c( not hooked up as of yet)and run pump gas. Just want a number and still be able to drive it. G/Z vacuum pump still needed. On The valve intake and exhaust timing events I'm lost. I just would like to get 800fwhp or more, don't ask Y, just want a number. I can all ways replace the cam with what is being used now. Thanks in advance: Paco

408 CID LS Chevy

Block: LQ9, overbored, .030

Bore: 4.030 inches

Stroke: Eagle 4.00 inches

Displacement: 408 ci

Compression ratio: 11.8:1

Crank & rods: Eagle

Camshaft: Tick Performance: COMP Cams hydraulic roller

Timing chain: SDPC Roller Master

Lifters: Isky Red-Zone EZ-Roll Max Roller Lifters: # 375RHM-EZX

Pushrods: COMP Cams 7.500 (3/8-inch diameter,tapered)

Springs: Manley 221421-16 Nextek Damper *.800 lift
1.324 O.D. 165 #@1.800 Seat Pressure, 515#@1.000 Open Pressure

Installed height: N/A

Spring load closed: N/A

Spring load open: N/A

Retainers: Comp Cams 7-degree Titanium#23618-16

Valve locks: Comp Cams 7-degree #13098-16

Cam duration, intake: 256 at .050

Intake lift: .757 inch

Cam duration, exhaust: 270 at .050

Exhaust lift: .757 inch

Rocker arms: Comp Cams: Ultra Pro Magnum # 1676

Rocker ratio: 1:8/ 1:8

Lobe separation: 113 degrees

Installed centerline: 108 degrees

Ring pack: Total Seal gapless rings 1.2/1.2/3mm oil

Ring end gap: .018 top/.022 second

Pistons: JE asymmetrical forgings with lateral gas ports & coated skirts # 311979

Main studs: ARP

Rods: Eagle 6.125-inch H-beam#CRS612503D



Main bearings: Clevite H

Rod bearings: Clevite HN

Main journal diameter: OEM

Rod journal diameter: 2.10-inch journal

Main clearance: .0018 inch

Rod clearance: .0021 inch

Cylinder heads: Frankenstein Racing heads LS3 stage 1 heads*milled to 64.cc

Head bolts: ARP studs

Intake manifold: Edelbrock Vic Jr needs to be ported
By Chris @ SAM or LME
Intake flow: 390 cfm at .750

Exhaust flow: 257 cfm at .750

Intake valve: Manley Hollow pro-flo 2.165 inches

Exhaust valve: Manley 1.600 inches

Head gaskets: Fel-Pro 1041 (.040 inch)

Piston/head clearance: .035 inch

Engine gaskets: OEM

Throttle body: HOLLEY 4500 Throttle Body and Moroso 4150 to 4500 adapter

Fuel Injectors: F.A.S.T : PRECISION-FLOW™ 60 LB/HR INJECTORS part# SKU: 306008

Headers: American Race headers G-body swap 1.7/8 inches
with 3-inch merge collector
Ignition: OEM

Spark plug wires: OEM

Damper: ATI with 10 percent U/D
steel hub with aluminum shell

Water pump: Meziere electric

Oil pan: Mast Motorsports: (Cored and baffled oil pan)

Oil pump: Ported Melling High oil pressure

Oil: AMSOIL 5W-30

Oil filter: Fram

lil john

Here's a similar build just slightly more bore .030 vs .070 and 4in crank vs 4.100 No biggie... We can make up the cubic inches.
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh....php?t=1204610

03EBZ06

Why solid roller lifters and a hydraulic cam? The spring pressures you have listed are less than what I had on my last hydraulic cam. Splain.
I just reread your post, 515 @ 1.000" lift on springs? At a rate of 435psi, you open pressure should be around
(0.757*435+165) or 494psi.

That referenced car had a higher piston speed and less cam duration than what your doing and he was on a solid cam according to the post.

lil john

On the box it reads HR ....but the lobe profiles are : High Tech .420 lobes which in Comp Cams master page#57. The catalog refers to them as Softer Solid roller lobes.

This was my other choice for springs to much pressure....
Manley NexTek 221422-16 Valve Springs LS Solid Roller
Fully Polished
1.335 OD dual without damper
.647 ID
.780 max lift
270 lbs @ 1.800 installed height
870 lbs @ 1.020 open pressure
Spring rate 780 lbs
Coil Bind .960

blackonblacksls

iTrader: (1)

One of the benefits of aftermarket heads is you can run longer valves and wider springs. Giving you many different choices for springs..

That's why sometimes the factory stuff isn't the way to go.

lil john

So True, but if you: Know what to look for you can still run a spring designed for that particular head as this was the case PAC has the 1208x and 1209x springs for like what I'm running. But I liked the Nextek's 221422 and the 221421 as the were designed Specifically for *LS3* heads also. I can get by or do with out Aftermarket heads as most guys have stock Cnc aftermarket heads. Know what to look 4 when choosing parts and that cuts out a middle Man or after market heads.

I haven't had a chance to call Matt @ Comp, working to much right now. J said my Super Vic intake should be in by Friday.

lil john

Nothing has happen as of yet but looking at new springsAC-1238X, when I purchased the first set of springs it was based of of the box reading, I would notice some power loss above 7 grand aka valve flat. But I haven't drove it since January. Take it as a lesson learned.

lil john

Got my Super Vic 4500 with Efi part #2815 $450 in, the plenum area is a helluva lot better than the Vic Jr. I had called around and priced plenum work for the Vic Jr with 4150/4500 adapter prices starting @ $400. I felt starting off with a 4500 works out for a better investment. Here is a good reworked 4150 with adapter photos, scroll down to the bottom of the page: http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18839.

I also had a chance to get with Matt I got the part# for the specific cam I was looking 4 just got to do the formula for the LSA to get my Dynamic compression correct. I'm just a work in progress I sometimes F up as I did in spring choice, Thank God nothing broke but the springs are now in the layaway staying with the Nextek line but with the 221422 solid roller springs.

lil john

Here's what I'my looking @ I like this intake lobe but after that I'my clueless.

Lobe # Rated Dur.@ .050 /.200 Lobe Lift. Tappet @ TDC 106 / 110

4024. 268 / 184. 420. 146 /130


I have 3 different exhaust lobes I'm looking @

Lobe # Rated Dur.@ .050 /.200 Lobe Lift. Tappet @ TDC 106 / 110

4049. 278 / 189. 420. 158 / 142

4030. 278 / 192. Same. 163 / 148

1480. 279 / 194. Same. 173 / 156

I'm kind of lost on the exhaust side of things also but I want to understand.
With a LSA of 111+4 my Intake Valve Closes ABDC :61 but I'my running EFI so going with a lower LSA with a
stock ECU sounds a little fishy. I know some will say get Cam Motion or Tick, .....Mr. Pat G. I have a Tick cam(Damn good BTW even with mismatch valve springs) I would like to know or understand how to make my own. It can't be some type of black magic... if anything could someone help me with a reference or formula to make the correct choice. I know it would like some more compression. This a one time type of a deal that I'my willing to spend a little cash on by May or June. Man, St Louis and Fergerson - Missouri is F up right now can't wait to get back to Houston Wednesday.

lil john

Now passing through Atlanta, Tx. near the Arkansas-Texas border....I know one of you guy's have the formula to help me out I wrote it down but doesn't seem to come out right.

musthaveLSx

I have some issues with that dyno sheet. If there is interest, I will post up a guide to engine dyno testing with pertinent info, and what to pay attention to and ensure that you are getting accurate results. This would be designed to help those unfamiliar with how it works, and the calculations involved. If you are paying for the service, you deserve no less.

KCS

iTrader: (20)

Please do. I'm curious to know what you're seeing.

KW Baraka

iTrader: (7)

Oooohhh.....I see. You figure that by throwing more cam at a slightly smaller engine with the same compression, you will have a shot at making 50 more HP over what this engine made.

OK.....peep this. http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...lsx-454-r.html

The GMPP LSX 454-R that's rated at 770 HP is spec'ed to 13:1 compression with a 250°/270° cam. And it has special purpose heads/intake that will outflow your ported LS3 castings and intake by a long shot!

And then, you're looking for this engine to perform on the street?

As I see it.....your HP gains are realistic if you're able to rev the engine to 8000+ RPMs. But at engine speeds that you'll typically see on the street (1500 to 3000 RPMs) the engine will be a pig (too much cam/not enough compression). And your 4000 stall TC and 3.91 gears won't be able to compensate. This set-up is just poorly spec'ed for a street engine.....and even for a race engine.

You can run your engine/cam specs through Tick.....but for your stated goals, I'm thinking they're gonna suggest something......different.

Best of luck.

KW

lil john

Yea you see really well, maybe well enough to Know it can be done with out referring to a crate 454 Dr engine. Martin @ Tick already stated he Could & Would do another cam to reach a 1 Time goal. The thing is I would like to know or Learn how to get or do the cam calculation for myself so when helping Someone else I could be helpful as far as getting the formula correct.
Rough guesstimate for ever 4-6 degrees in in intake advancement their is a RPM rise that results in roughly 20 to 25 hp. Ok 256 deg. went to 268 adds up to roughly 12 so divded by 4 equals 3 or 3 x 25. So lets say I got 725 out of this Salvage Yard block add 75hp and Boom. I understand that if I were to go to 12:0 or 12:2 compression ratio would be nice, but the original cam is going back in, One Time thing. This is 4 $h!t'$ and Giggles. It's to hot in Houston to run around without A/c that's what the cam I have now is for.
Here's some simple references. More compression is what maybe needed, refer to statement above. Original cam will be going back in, this is for : Blank & Blanks

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh....php?t=1120434


I figure I'm in the middle of one of these two. As FHS advertising from what data I've had done it's on point. This is what I'my on.. B. @ LME gave me the base line of over 255 duration on a solid roller cam a long time ago. For 700hp with a simple pump gas 408 look @ what cam I got and the cam duration used in any of the builds listed. 270+ duration sounds better now thinking about it.

This is there Dyno tune builds. I build things closer to my size not a 454 with 770 hp on race gas we can do this smaller on the pump
Quote:
I only have two sets of the new design that have been dynoed so far on a Superflow 902 engine dyno. First was a set of our stage one heads on a hydraulic roller 408 with a 244/250 cam on a 110lsa installed at 106icl with .670 lift. 11.3compression pump gas with a fast manifold. It made 693hp @ 6900 I will have to call for the tq numbers.

The second one dynoed was a set of our stage 2 on a 414 solid roller street car. It had 11.8 comp. with a gm carb intake with an edelbrock elbow. Cam was 257/264on 109lsa and a 105icl .734 lift. It made 756hp@ 7520rpm.

lil john

This tablet is great @ keeping my files as bookmarks.

KW Baraka

iTrader: (7)

Uh.....I didn't say it couldn't be done. I brought up the 454-R engine as a comparison.....something that you might consider and add to your knowledge base.

The below quote is from my post....

But without getting into all the science (would darn near take a book to explain it all), the engine set-up that you propose will make for a pretty poor street engine.

Since you seem to know the guys at Tick, talk to them about what it'd take to get a FUNCTIONAL, naturally aspirated, 800hp LSx street engine. I'd be willing to bet that they would encourage you to change some of your engine and cam specs.....and they would even tell you why.

OK....so you're not looking to live with this engine set-up for more than what.....a few weeks? OK then....have at it. But I don't see how spec'ing/building this engine will give you insight into helping anyone more-so than you can right now. This engine will have no real world utility outside of a race track.

What you're proposing really goes outside the parameter of good engine spec'ing/building (putting together a system that works). So while it's cool to engage in a bit of experimentation, at the end of the day you'll only end up verifying what doesn't work.

Jus' callin' it as I see it.

KW

lil john

My cam right now runs damn good young man with a wrong spring choice. This is a post about a cam, not what it will be like or results, a number ask can be: Obtained whether it looks good to you or not for $499. I'm wanting explained the Key factors or calculation on trying to make a cam. Simple as that. Martin said he can make the cam just to see a listed run that's all, put back my original cam back in and it's as simple as that. I still want to understand what's going on that's the reason for the post. Not just call Martin, I got his answer. Also everyone may learn something.

Weather is almost like Houston not to cool.

casias

iTrader: (1)

Wow. Are you drunk?

lil john

No not @ all had to drive from Houston now in St. Louis,
Don't Drink and Drive
Smoke and Ride...... going out for dinner and coming back to the hotel.

But is it this complicated to understand that Martin can do me the cam I'm asking, Yet would like to understand the methodology of Really spec'ing a cam, not just Hearing and not understanding and just saying OK. But I do know this much over 270 duration is a good starting point.

casias

iTrader: (1)

Here is a good place to start. When you have finished this book, you will understand.

Rothbart, H.A. (2004). CAM Design Handbook. New York, NY: Mcgraw-Hill.

Table of Contents

A. PREFACE
1. INTRODUCTION
2. BASIC CURVES
3. MODIFIED CAM CURVES
4. POLYNOMIAL AND FOURIER SERIES CAM CURVES
5. CAM MOTION SYNTHESIS USING SPLINE FUNCTIONS
6. ELEMENTS OF CAM PROFILE GEOMETRY
7. GEOMETRY OF PLANAR CAM PROFILES
8. CAM MECHANISM FORCES
9. CAM MATERIALS AND LUBRICATION
10. CAM MANUFACTURING
11. CAM SYSTEM MODELING
12. CAM SYSTEM DYNAMICS—ANALYSIS
13. CAM SYSTEM DYNAMICS—RESPONSE
14. SPECIAL CAM MECHANISMS
15. CAMS IN MICROELECTROMECHANICAL SYSTEMS
C. AUTOMOTIVE CAMSHAFT DYNAMICS