Build update - CamMotion LLSR, Crower valvatrain, FRH TFS Genx heads, Vic. Jr. intake
12-03-2015, 11:54 AM
#1
Build update - CamMotion LLSR, Crower valvatrain, FRH TFS Genx heads, Vic. Jr. intake Earlier this year, I posted a couple of threads about my experience of losing my engine due to a dropped valve, and the subsequent rebuild. You can refresh from those if you like:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...am-vic-jr.html
Dyno results
During the summer, the car was down for some suspension updates. A part of me regretted my lifter choice in the original motor, wishing I had learned more about the solid roller options before assembling the motor. I say that because this motor spends time on the auto-cross running high RPM in first gear, so stability there is important.
I decided to take advantage of the downtime this summer and swap the cam and valvetrain. I spoke to Kip a few times, and we crafted a plan for a new grind. Since I was already running a cam he ground (speced by EPS using their lobes), we had a good starting point of knowledge about what the engine would like.
While I run a single-plane intake and 4 barrel throttle body, I don't spin this engine into the stratosphere, and I care about midrange torque since I'm running the engine up and down through a lot of RPM during my events.
Kip and I settled on a 248/258 LLSR grind. He explained that this would be about 5* more of duration as compared to the 238/248 which I already had. Lift grew from .629/.604 to .660/.650 (before taking lash into account).
Since the heads were coming off, I took a day and drove up to FRH to have Chris replace the BTR Platinum spring kit with a PAC 1207x kit. This wasn't strictly necessary, but I wanted the extra insurance on the lift. It also gave Chris the change to look over the heads and check out the burn pattern, which he seemed very pleased with.
The complete set of changes during this round include:
I finished up the engine and suspension at the end of September, and with some quick tuning I was able to drive the 450 miles roundtrip to compete in the Fort Worth Good Guys autocross. The car did great, but I ended up with a small engine compartment fire due to a pinched valve cover spacer gasket. Originally, I used a 1" spacer with the stock covers to clear the Crower rockers. I have since changed this setup to use the Katech covers instead.
Yesterday I drove the car to Bryan, Tx to have LSX Power Tuning retune and dyno the car. Lorenz did the tune earlier this year after the original rebuild, with the results posted in the thread above (541/502). I wanted to have him redo the tune on the same dyno, and we were fortunate that we had very similar weather conditions yesterday as well.
The plots are shown below, although the absolute best run wasn't included (579.9 / 505.6). Both Lorenz and the dyno owner seemed fairly impressed with these results, particularly considering the top-end is LS3 based and not LS7 architecture. After some tuning, we have the car idling at 850 rpm, it's smooth and quite (as quiet as this car has ever been at least), and it's super smooth driving around town or the highway (I had a 2 hour drive each way yesterday).
Compared to my original dyno runs, the results show that we picked up 38 rwhp at almost the same RPM point. Interestingly, the peak torque was effectively identical at basically the same RPM as before as well. The torque just carries better, giving the HP improvement. I really wasn't sure what my expectations were, but once we got to those upper 570's, I really wanted that 580 print.
We didn't quite get it, but I'm certain that if I removed the shaker and tried cooling the engine that we would have easily surpassed it. These runs were at full temp the way I drive it on the road and track. I did lose some torque in the lower RPM (3k or so), but that was somewhat expected with this cam change.
Regarding the LLSR, when I replaced the valve covers I took the time to recheck the lash on the rocker arms. I had about 600 miles on the setup when I did this. Everything was effectively perfect. Maybe 0.001" tightening on a pushrod or two. I will attend several events and drive a lot next year, so perhaps I'll check it again 12 months or so from now and see how it looks.
I'll post some pics below during the process. Enjoy!
Took some work to get these this clean!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...am-vic-jr.html
Dyno results
During the summer, the car was down for some suspension updates. A part of me regretted my lifter choice in the original motor, wishing I had learned more about the solid roller options before assembling the motor. I say that because this motor spends time on the auto-cross running high RPM in first gear, so stability there is important.
I decided to take advantage of the downtime this summer and swap the cam and valvetrain. I spoke to Kip a few times, and we crafted a plan for a new grind. Since I was already running a cam he ground (speced by EPS using their lobes), we had a good starting point of knowledge about what the engine would like.
While I run a single-plane intake and 4 barrel throttle body, I don't spin this engine into the stratosphere, and I care about midrange torque since I'm running the engine up and down through a lot of RPM during my events.
Kip and I settled on a 248/258 LLSR grind. He explained that this would be about 5* more of duration as compared to the 238/248 which I already had. Lift grew from .629/.604 to .660/.650 (before taking lash into account).
Since the heads were coming off, I took a day and drove up to FRH to have Chris replace the BTR Platinum spring kit with a PAC 1207x kit. This wasn't strictly necessary, but I wanted the extra insurance on the lift. It also gave Chris the change to look over the heads and check out the burn pattern, which he seemed very pleased with.
The complete set of changes during this round include:
- Cam Motion LLSR 248/258, .660/.650, 115+5
- Crower solid roller lifters with axle oiling
- Crower Stainless shaft rockers
- Manton 3/8" x 0.095" x 8.665" pushrods
- LS7 head gaskets
- Deatschwerks 50# Fuel Injectors
- 3/4" wood carb spacer
- Katech valve covers and coil relocation kit with MSD plug wires
- Holley Billet EFI Fuel Rails / -8AN crossover hose
I finished up the engine and suspension at the end of September, and with some quick tuning I was able to drive the 450 miles roundtrip to compete in the Fort Worth Good Guys autocross. The car did great, but I ended up with a small engine compartment fire due to a pinched valve cover spacer gasket. Originally, I used a 1" spacer with the stock covers to clear the Crower rockers. I have since changed this setup to use the Katech covers instead.
Yesterday I drove the car to Bryan, Tx to have LSX Power Tuning retune and dyno the car. Lorenz did the tune earlier this year after the original rebuild, with the results posted in the thread above (541/502). I wanted to have him redo the tune on the same dyno, and we were fortunate that we had very similar weather conditions yesterday as well.
The plots are shown below, although the absolute best run wasn't included (579.9 / 505.6). Both Lorenz and the dyno owner seemed fairly impressed with these results, particularly considering the top-end is LS3 based and not LS7 architecture. After some tuning, we have the car idling at 850 rpm, it's smooth and quite (as quiet as this car has ever been at least), and it's super smooth driving around town or the highway (I had a 2 hour drive each way yesterday).
Compared to my original dyno runs, the results show that we picked up 38 rwhp at almost the same RPM point. Interestingly, the peak torque was effectively identical at basically the same RPM as before as well. The torque just carries better, giving the HP improvement. I really wasn't sure what my expectations were, but once we got to those upper 570's, I really wanted that 580 print.
We didn't quite get it, but I'm certain that if I removed the shaker and tried cooling the engine that we would have easily surpassed it. These runs were at full temp the way I drive it on the road and track. I did lose some torque in the lower RPM (3k or so), but that was somewhat expected with this cam change. Regarding the LLSR, when I replaced the valve covers I took the time to recheck the lash on the rocker arms. I had about 600 miles on the setup when I did this. Everything was effectively perfect. Maybe 0.001" tightening on a pushrod or two. I will attend several events and drive a lot next year, so perhaps I'll check it again 12 months or so from now and see how it looks.
I'll post some pics below during the process. Enjoy!
Took some work to get these this clean!
12-04-2015, 02:05 PM
#8
The heads are the TFS GenX 255 LS3 casting, ported by FRH. I have to go back and look at my notes for the exact final port volume, but it was either 272cc or 280cc I believe. I believe that FRH gets them as 'porter' casting with no markings and then the CNC machine cuts their logo onto the front.
12-20-2015, 10:04 AM
#11
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (5)
The heads are the TFS GenX 255 LS3 casting, ported by FRH. I have to go back and look at my notes for the exact final port volume, but it was either 272cc or 280cc I believe. I believe that FRH gets them as 'porter' casting with no markings and then the CNC machine cuts their logo onto the front.
Last edited by 64post; 12-26-2015 at 06:46 PM.
12-20-2015, 11:23 AM
#12
Thank you.
The CR is about 11.9:1. Here are the details:
Bore: 4.127"
Stroke: 4.000"
Head Gasket: 4.150" x 0.054" (stock LS7)
Piston to deck height: 0.0075" above the deck (approximate, I averaged a few)
Piston relief volume: 4cc
I run between 26 and 27* of timing in the upper RPM, with no signs of knock/detonation.
And yes, that's an AC compressor. And power steering. All hooked up during the pulls.
The CR is about 11.9:1. Here are the details:
Bore: 4.127"
Stroke: 4.000"
Head Gasket: 4.150" x 0.054" (stock LS7)
Piston to deck height: 0.0075" above the deck (approximate, I averaged a few)
Piston relief volume: 4cc
I run between 26 and 27* of timing in the upper RPM, with no signs of knock/detonation.
And yes, that's an AC compressor. And power steering. All hooked up during the pulls.
12-20-2015, 06:28 PM
#15
Really nice Bryan. I've got a similar build (CID, heads, CR, etc) in my 5th Gen but worked over by Tony Mamo. Couldn't believe how much PTV I got with the TFS heads. Have't been on the dyno yet but expecting similar numbers once I finish break in and tuning tweaks. Also for use on the road courses (HPDE).
Travis
Travis
12-20-2015, 10:34 PM
#16
Travis,
Thanx! I've been following your build as well, and I'm very curious to see how it performs for you once it's done. I seriously thought about moving to a set of Tony's cathedral heads before I went with the FRH LS3's. I stayed with the LS3 heads as I had a lot of effort invested in my intake / shaker setup, and I didn't want to have to redo that with a different intake manifold.
It's fun to drive for sure. I'm scheduled for my first track day at COTA in February, and I look forward to a few other similar events next year...
Thanx! I've been following your build as well, and I'm very curious to see how it performs for you once it's done. I seriously thought about moving to a set of Tony's cathedral heads before I went with the FRH LS3's. I stayed with the LS3 heads as I had a lot of effort invested in my intake / shaker setup, and I didn't want to have to redo that with a different intake manifold.
It's fun to drive for sure. I'm scheduled for my first track day at COTA in February, and I look forward to a few other similar events next year...
12-20-2015, 11:01 PM
#17
Originally Posted by carbuff
Travis,
Thanx! I've been following your build as well, and I'm very curious to see how it performs for you once it's done. I seriously thought about moving to a set of Tony's cathedral heads before I went with the FRH LS3's. I stayed with the LS3 heads as I had a lot of effort invested in my intake / shaker setup, and I didn't want to have to redo that with a different intake manifold.
It's fun to drive for sure. I'm scheduled for my first track day at COTA in February, and I look forward to a few other similar events next year...
Thanx! I've been following your build as well, and I'm very curious to see how it performs for you once it's done. I seriously thought about moving to a set of Tony's cathedral heads before I went with the FRH LS3's. I stayed with the LS3 heads as I had a lot of effort invested in my intake / shaker setup, and I didn't want to have to redo that with a different intake manifold.
It's fun to drive for sure. I'm scheduled for my first track day at COTA in February, and I look forward to a few other similar events next year...
I think you'll be surprised when you get on the track. That thing is going to be a beast and tough to get the reins on for a little bit. Enjoy!