When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Ok, I'm going to put in my .02.... the engines I build are apples and oranges in operation, BUT the reliability is CRITICAL. with that said, nothing is ever left unchecked. part numbers are verified (every bolt, every washer, every nut.) and critical clearances are checked. parts are looked over for ANY stress risers and if found, are analyzed with a wax trace. Run outs are measured to .0001 we trust our vendors but always verify Hell, we torque worm clamps to 35 in lbs!
there for I ALWAYS check everything that I send to the machine shop and I assemble my own stuff. then the blame falls on me for failure. I plan to order some Mast heads for my 02 Z06 here soon.... I know Cary Chounard personally (went to high school with him. cruised Telegraph back in the day with him....) But, I will STILL take everything apart and check critical clearance.
(BTW one of the "perks" of the job is I can send in my own Personal mics' gage's and torque wrenches to our in house Calibration shop. I do this everytime I go to assemble my own engines) with that said, this is why everyting is critical....
BTW if some of you engine builders are in the area (Raleigh/Durham) I'll give ya a tour. Last LS engine builder I gave a tour to was Kurt Urban and his boys about 2-3 years ago.
BTW if some of you engine builders are in the area (Raleigh/Durham) I'll give ya a tour. Last LS engine builder I gave a tour to was Kurt Urban and his boys about 2-3 years ago.
I watched a few shows on just how tightly everything is controlled/tested when making parts and assembling aircraft engines. The amount of time spent on the weld integrity alone was crazy but understandable.
Guys, I meant to provide some update to this once I decided what I wanted to do (still havent decided if I will pursue further). I wanted to finish my 17 Z build and get the V back together before I re-focused on this issue. For now, I will provide a "status" update. The car is back together and I am about $10-12k poorer and 8 mos without my car (since my ERL block had to be re-sleeved). My builder a great job trying to serve as the intermediary on my behalf. I decided to speak with Chris (@ Mast) directly to get a feel for their demeanor and 'take' on this whole issue. Their actions showed what they were going to do long before he and I spoke, but at least I went thru the trouble of speaking directly with the decision maker. We had a civil and respectful conversation, much to Chris' surprise. I guess he expected a guy that got bent over like I did to yell and scream. Not my style. In the end, they pushed it off on the valve mfr, saying that they unsuccessfully tried to work thru the matter with Trick. In a faux expression of frustration, Chris said that they would discontinue using them as a supplier (kind of an admission of something...). Again, I heard from people within MAST and other customers that this has happened a number of times with similar results. Bottom line...they took absolutely NO responsibility for subbing in valves that have had similar issues in the past. When all this started, MAST committed to at least replace the head as purchased and another set of titanium valves (non - Trick). What I rec'd was a bare head that they attempted to charge me for. What I found out was that it was a "leftover" mis cast head, from the same lot that my set came from. It was actually scheduled to goto scrap because it didn't match anything else in their inventory.
Here is what I am left with "learning" wise, colored with a couple decades working for an OEM and doing project cars since the day I left grad school and could afford them... MAST is a premium mfr of performance parts. You pay the premium price, but that comes with supplying premium products with premium customer service. That is, by their actions, is in name only. That expectation should be applicable whether I own a big shop buying dozens of heads per year or just one for a big build. I bought Mast Heads, because I thought I was purchasing the best. The product and customer service fell short on both counts. I could have purchased 6 bolt GMPP heads and ended up in the same place performance wise without the expense/hassle and given that they are OEM validated..the risk of catastrophic failure. Remember guys...car only saw limited dyno time and break-in miles. By comparison my single turbo 17 Z06 saw over 60 dyno pulls recently (tuning) at close to and over x,xxx whp and hasn't skipped a ******* beat. All OEM GM stuff, except upgraded cam, valve springs and studs.
My experience says that there are many that will comes to Mast defense citing that they haven't had a problem. Not applicable here...its what happens when u do have one that defines the company, especially when the documentation shows that you are at fault. For those that are considering purchasing high dollar complete heads, this is a data point. You may dodge that bullet with Mast, but then again, you may not. In a million years, never thought I would end up in this place. Again, if you have had a similar issue reach out...still undecided on what I want to do.
Yea that's F'ed up!!!!! They said and know the valves are the problem...they used them so they should warranty them. If this has happen before then the problem was known and they ARE liable for what that's worth. Future reference Mast makes heads not valves! Buy valves from a valve manufacturer: Ferrera,Del West, Manley...etc. Court would be your best bet as you already tried talking and working with them.
They sent you a bad head :
What I found out was that it was a "leftover" mis cast head, from the same lot that my set came from. It was actually scheduled to goto scrap because it didn't match anything else in their inventory.
What else can you do but go to court or just take one with no grease.
Mast heads are overrated. Went to the ls fest this past weekend. What did I see ? A 440 ci mast headed motor running 10.7s in the 1/4. **** weak as water.
Mast heads are overrated. Went to the ls fest this past weekend. What did I see ? A 440 ci mast headed motor running 10.7s in the 1/4. **** weak as water.
The heads aren’t the only variable. There could be many other reasons a car doesn’t run the numbers you would expect. There is not a manufactuerer on the planet that can make a head capable of making up for a **** tune or a poorly chosen converter.
The heads aren’t the only variable. There could be many other reasons a car doesn’t run the numbers you would expect. There is not a manufactuerer on the planet that can make a head capable of making up for a **** tune or a poorly chosen converter.
According to big hammer if you put mast heads on your 4.8 you'll automatically will run 8s in the quarter on motor with 93 octane pump gas. You should try it and see. Report back and let me know how that works out for you.
According to big hammer if you put mast heads on your 4.8 you'll automatically will run 8s in the quarter on motor with 93 octane pump gas. You should try it and see. Report back and let me know how that works out for you.
That’s not what I said at all. But that’s literally you with TFS 235’s
lol
After years and years of reading GM high tech magazine.... it's hard to beat them for the money from the track results on all motor combinations. Numbers dont lie... PEOPLE DO!!
Anyway I went to LS fest this past weekend. It was some Mast headed cars on the premises. They was NOT the fastest things there out of a 1000 cars being in attendance. The SPS haymaker heads however surprised me big time. Badass heads from what I seen with my own two eyes. I'll still like to see more than on combo out of them tho. Richard Holdener gave me a book and signed it for as well.
Food for thought. It was a 440ci LSX with mast heads stuck running high 10s on motor. Later on the same day I saw a sbe ls1 with Mast 215 heads 11.4s. It was ok but not no hero at all.
After years and years of reading GM high tech magazine.... it's hard to beat them for the money from the track results on all motor combinations. Numbers dont lie... PEOPLE DO!!
Anyway I went to LS fest this past weekend. It was some Mast headed cars on the premises. They was NOT the fastest things there out of a 1000 cars being in attendance. The SPS haymaker heads however surprised me big time. Badass heads from what I seen with my own two eyes. I'll still like to see more than on combo out of them tho. Richard Holdener gave me a book and signed it for as well.
Food for thought. It was a 440ci LSX with mast heads stuck running high 10s on motor. Later on the same day I saw a sbe ls1 with Mast 215 heads 11.4s. It was ok but not no hero at all.
you realize that’s all paid advertising right. propaganda.
Anyone can make a certain Head run Shitty with a bad setup. Heads are just one part working in conjunction with hundreds
Guys, I meant to provide some update to this once I decided what I wanted to do (still havent decided if I will pursue further). I wanted to finish my 17 Z build and get the V back together before I re-focused on this issue. For now, I will provide a "status" update. The car is back together and I am about $10-12k poorerand 8 mos without my car (since my ERL block had to be re-sleeved). My builder a great job trying to serve as the intermediary on my behalf. I decided to speak with Chris (@ Mast) directly to get a feel for their demeanor and 'take' on this whole issue. Their actions showed what they were going to do long before he and I spoke, but at least I went thru the trouble of speaking directly with the decision maker. We had a civil and respectful conversation, much to Chris' surprise. I guess he expected a guy that got bent over like I did to yell and scream. Not my style. In the end, they pushed it off on the valve mfr, saying that they unsuccessfully tried to work thru the matter with Trick. In a faux expression of frustration, Chris said that they would discontinue using them as a supplier (kind of an admission of something...). Again, I heard from people within MAST and other customers that this has happened a number of times with similar results. Bottom line...they took absolutely NO responsibility for subbing in valves that have had similar issues in the past. When all this started, MAST committed to at least replace the head as purchased and another set of titanium valves (non - Trick). What I rec'd was a bare head that they attempted to charge me for. What I found out was that it was a "leftover" mis cast head, from the same lot that my set came from. It was actually scheduled to goto scrap because it didn't match anything else in their inventory.
Here is what I am left with "learning" wise, colored with a couple decades working for an OEM and doing project cars since the day I left grad school and could afford them... MAST is a premium mfr of performance parts. You pay the premium price, but that comes with supplying premium products with premium customer service. That is, by their actions, is in name only. That expectation should be applicable whether I own a big shop buying dozens of heads per year or just one for a big build. I bought Mast Heads, because I thought I was purchasing the best. The product and customer service fell short on both counts. I could have purchased 6 bolt GMPP heads and ended up in the same place performance wise without the expense/hassle and given that they are OEM validated..the risk of catastrophic failure. Remember guys...car only saw limited dyno time and break-in miles. By comparison my single turbo 17 Z06 saw over 60 dyno pulls recently (tuning) at close to and over x,xxx whp and hasn't skipped a ******* beat. All OEM GM stuff, except upgraded cam, valve springs and studs.
My experience says that there are many that will comes to Mast defense citing that they haven't had a problem. Not applicable here...its what happens when u do have one that defines the company, especially when the documentation shows that you are at fault. For those that are considering purchasing high dollar complete heads, this is a data point. You may dodge that bullet with Mast, but then again, you may not. In a million years, never thought I would end up in this place. Again, if you have had a similar issue reach out...still undecided on what I want to do.
I'm glad you got your engine back together after that horrible experience. Hope everything goes well with the engine and car going forward. That's one hell of a data point.
Hard choices on how to proceed when stuff like this happens. My car w/ERL 416 was stolen and recovered with engine damaged. Cost seven months & $7,500 to fix. Destitute suspect is pending trial. Civil suit isn't worth the cost or hassle. I decided not spend a year(s) focused on a civil suit.
If you pursue civil action, I hope satisfaction awaits at the resolution. Likewise, hope all of the cars keep running well and you have a lot of much deserved fun.
After years and years of reading GM high tech magazine.... it's hard to beat them for the money from the track results on all motor combinations. Numbers dont lie... PEOPLE DO!!
Anyway I went to LS fest this past weekend. It was some Mast headed cars on the premises. They was NOT the fastest things there out of a 1000 cars being in attendance. The SPS haymaker heads however surprised me big time. Badass heads from what I seen with my own two eyes. I'll still like to see more than on combo out of them tho. Richard Holdener gave me a book and signed it for as well.
Food for thought. It was a 440ci LSX with mast heads stuck running high 10s on motor. Later on the same day I saw a sbe ls1 with Mast 215 heads 11.4s. It was ok but not no hero at all.
I know someone running 10.5 quarter on a 416 stroker with as cast LS3 heads. Major MAST fail.
03-11-2018, 04:44 PM
Hell, we torque worm clamps to 35 in lbs!
