Projekt Lazarus - Numbers Posted!!
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From: My own internal universe
Originally Posted by 98_WS6_M6
Maybe dual tb's? Or 8?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
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From: My own internal universe
Well, the drama continues...
I had it. I mean i HAD it. IAC counts were down in the 40's, One last rev to test return to idle, it revved, held a second, started coming down easy - just like I want it - and then six loud mechanical bangs and the motor cut. At first I thought bottom end. I checked the dipstick tube, and the oil is still very clean. I'll pull the filter later. I did upll the Right now, I'm not doing anything. Pretty upset.
Well, I took the valve covers off just to check, and all the valve lashes are perfect. I mean perfect. So, I rotated the engine over four times and watched the valves. #6 exhaust rocker never moved. Valve not bent Tip is at the right height. The lifter isn't lifting the valve. So, I pulled the pushrod and stuck it in a drill chuck, spun it, perfectly straight. What's interesting is the other pushrod issue I had was #6 intake. So whether there is an issue with this lifter pair or not, they are going to be replaced. I have some theories, but I'm not going to speculate.
At this point, the head needs to come off so I can see what's going on. This is hotrodding, though.
I had it. I mean i HAD it. IAC counts were down in the 40's, One last rev to test return to idle, it revved, held a second, started coming down easy - just like I want it - and then six loud mechanical bangs and the motor cut. At first I thought bottom end. I checked the dipstick tube, and the oil is still very clean. I'll pull the filter later. I did upll the Right now, I'm not doing anything. Pretty upset.
Well, I took the valve covers off just to check, and all the valve lashes are perfect. I mean perfect. So, I rotated the engine over four times and watched the valves. #6 exhaust rocker never moved. Valve not bent Tip is at the right height. The lifter isn't lifting the valve. So, I pulled the pushrod and stuck it in a drill chuck, spun it, perfectly straight. What's interesting is the other pushrod issue I had was #6 intake. So whether there is an issue with this lifter pair or not, they are going to be replaced. I have some theories, but I'm not going to speculate.
At this point, the head needs to come off so I can see what's going on. This is hotrodding, though.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 10,451
Likes: 1,872
From: My own internal universe
FWIW I pulled the fuel pump fuse and cranked engine. Still have compression. No banging. So likely it is the cam or lifter pair at this point.
Having a Martian right now. First of many.
Having a Martian right now. First of many.
Chevelle went thru this kinda crap too, i can tell its just a matter of shyt happens aka hot rodding. If i go thru anything like this aftr a 4yr build, im renegging the "STEAK" dinner i promises my engine builder. He gets a headlock instead until my arm tires out...n this a big arm!
Chevelle went thru this kinda crap too, i can tell its just a matter of shyt happens aka hot rodding. If i go thru anything like this aftr a 4yr build, im renegging the "STEAK" dinner i promises my engine builder. He gets a headlock instead until my arm tires out...n this a big arm!
Hang in there Jake. Hoping it’s something simple, however I know in my heart that you didn’t miss the lifter cup with the other pushrod. No way. You’ll figure it out when the head comes off.
Well, the drama continues...
I had it. I mean i HAD it. IAC counts were down in the 40's, One last rev to test return to idle, it revved, held a second, started coming down easy - just like I want it - and then six loud mechanical bangs and the motor cut. At first I thought bottom end. I checked the dipstick tube, and the oil is still very clean. I'll pull the filter later. I did upll the Right now, I'm not doing anything. Pretty upset.
Well, I took the valve covers off just to check, and all the valve lashes are perfect. I mean perfect. So, I rotated the engine over four times and watched the valves. #6 exhaust rocker never moved. Valve not bent Tip is at the right height. The lifter isn't lifting the valve. So, I pulled the pushrod and stuck it in a drill chuck, spun it, perfectly straight. What's interesting is the other pushrod issue I had was #6 intake. So whether there is an issue with this lifter pair or not, they are going to be replaced. I have some theories, but I'm not going to speculate.
At this point, the head needs to come off so I can see what's going on. This is hotrodding, though.
I had it. I mean i HAD it. IAC counts were down in the 40's, One last rev to test return to idle, it revved, held a second, started coming down easy - just like I want it - and then six loud mechanical bangs and the motor cut. At first I thought bottom end. I checked the dipstick tube, and the oil is still very clean. I'll pull the filter later. I did upll the Right now, I'm not doing anything. Pretty upset.
Well, I took the valve covers off just to check, and all the valve lashes are perfect. I mean perfect. So, I rotated the engine over four times and watched the valves. #6 exhaust rocker never moved. Valve not bent Tip is at the right height. The lifter isn't lifting the valve. So, I pulled the pushrod and stuck it in a drill chuck, spun it, perfectly straight. What's interesting is the other pushrod issue I had was #6 intake. So whether there is an issue with this lifter pair or not, they are going to be replaced. I have some theories, but I'm not going to speculate.
At this point, the head needs to come off so I can see what's going on. This is hotrodding, though.
I know what you are going through.
I'm curious to know what the issue is.
Hopefully it's nothing serious.
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Joined: Jul 2014
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From: My own internal universe
Thanks, guys. I appreciate the encouragement.
One thing I'm struggling with is I set 1,2,3,4,5,7,8 perfectly in one try. But #6 I kept having to recheck, and lash kept moving around on me. I'll know more when the passenger side head comes off. I'm pretty sure I either lost a lifter or the cam lobe at this point. Oil pan going to have to come off too, since there is a crank scraper in there, so whatever broke cannot fall through.
Part of this hobby though. Blessing in disguise i'm thinking. It happened in my driveway, not at 4am on the way to the airport or something stupid. I'll know more soon enough. but i didn't need to work on it today. Needed to walk away from it and regroup a bit. it'll be all right in the end.
One thing I'm struggling with is I set 1,2,3,4,5,7,8 perfectly in one try. But #6 I kept having to recheck, and lash kept moving around on me. I'll know more when the passenger side head comes off. I'm pretty sure I either lost a lifter or the cam lobe at this point. Oil pan going to have to come off too, since there is a crank scraper in there, so whatever broke cannot fall through.
Part of this hobby though. Blessing in disguise i'm thinking. It happened in my driveway, not at 4am on the way to the airport or something stupid. I'll know more soon enough. but i didn't need to work on it today. Needed to walk away from it and regroup a bit. it'll be all right in the end.
I’m sorry to hear about all the struggles you have been going through with this build darth. I hope it’s nothing more then some new lifters and you will be back up and running. Fingers crossed for you man! Its best to take a breather from it now and go back in a couple of days. Badass build though!
One thing I'm struggling with is I set 1,2,3,4,5,7,8 perfectly in one try. But #6 I kept having to recheck, and lash kept moving around on me. I'll know more when the passenger side head comes off. I'm pretty sure I either lost a lifter or the cam lobe at this point. Oil pan going to have to come off too, since there is a crank scraper in there, so whatever broke cannot fall through..
Originally Posted by G Atsma
If you had weird stuff happening BEFORE fire-up, I doubt the cam wiped a lobe. I suspect #6 exhaust lifter took a dump.
@98 already answered it. But for more color...
I had found in my old 346 build I was pulling a vacuum under full power and traced it back to the card style mag blocking the airflow. Went SD. Ended up going OLSD so I could lean out the idle and better control off idle transitions, etc. then I found how to really get a good Alpha-N (throttle position vs rpm) blend into the mix, which REALLY helped smooth it out.
In this case, my main issue is this thing is simply air hungry and I need my IAC counts to come down. Maf vs SD makes no difference. I will need to drill the blade more to get flow so I can get the counts down. Nbd. But I wanted to exhaust all options first since it looks like if my math is right it will be a 5/16 hole, which is pretty big. But it wants 20 g/sec to idle.
I had found in my old 346 build I was pulling a vacuum under full power and traced it back to the card style mag blocking the airflow. Went SD. Ended up going OLSD so I could lean out the idle and better control off idle transitions, etc. then I found how to really get a good Alpha-N (throttle position vs rpm) blend into the mix, which REALLY helped smooth it out.
In this case, my main issue is this thing is simply air hungry and I need my IAC counts to come down. Maf vs SD makes no difference. I will need to drill the blade more to get flow so I can get the counts down. Nbd. But I wanted to exhaust all options first since it looks like if my math is right it will be a 5/16 hole, which is pretty big. But it wants 20 g/sec to idle.
Btw, you can run OLSD at idle and CLSD above 1200RPM. It works super well. No issue with idle. And no issue with the transition back to OL.
Last edited by JakeFusion; Feb 2, 2020 at 12:33 AM.
I hope you sort it out and there's no major damage. What's weird is it sounds like lifters are the issue but you've barely run the thing. No bent valves, pushrods straight, almost like that lifter pair (or one of) just collapsed for no other reason than it was defective from new.
All part of the joys when building a new engine. Dont know how many times ive heard a new build has dropped a lifter. I lost 7 race engines one season with lifters turning.
Hope an easy fix
Hope an easy fix
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
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From: My own internal universe
I done blended mode before. Problem is on some of these larger cams, there is a hole in the VE table. I need it to be artificially lean or rich. I can fix it with WB but enabling NB trims it away from where I want it
Advantage of alpha N is I can command lean at zero throttle but as soon as any pedal comes in, it goes to stoich. A sort of DFCO Lite if that makes sense.
Advantage of alpha N is I can command lean at zero throttle but as soon as any pedal comes in, it goes to stoich. A sort of DFCO Lite if that makes sense.
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Joined: Jul 2014
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From: My own internal universe
Originally Posted by ddnspider
Can you add more detail? When you say artificially lean or rich do you mean at non idle?
I also run 15.7 AFR under light throttle cruising. I do this for fuel savings and also for a slight de-torque. Again, with closed loop it will always trim back to stoich.












