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It seems that you're getting two different sets of cylinder heads mixed up.
F710 (or any f-series for that matter) is 100% designed, tooled, and machined in house. These castings are cast in Michigan. These use CHE bronze guides and CHE Ductile Iron seats with the option of CHE Steel Guides w/bronze liners as well as CHE B1 Intake Seats and BX exhaust seats. These are indeed raised runner, 10* valve angle heads.
M311 (which you post a link to) is in fact an offshore casting. We don't hide it and everybody knows this. It is ported and machined by us using the existing bronze guides and ductile iron seats (not by CHE and we've never advertised these to have them). We know the quality of these parts are not THE BEST but they do just fine on a TON of combinations in which the buyer is looking to save some money. Now our new "Boost Monster" M311 comes with CHE Bronze Guides in which we install and are assembled with inconel exhaust valves. These are a STANDARD port location (not raised), 11* LS3 head. The casting is of A319-T6, its similar to what you'd find in a 799, 823, 5364 castings and many cast intake manifolds. It's far from the best casting quality and they're a close copy to the Mast medium bore head (take that as an example of who would be copying who..). Again, we don't sell this head as anything super special nor do we claim it as a "cast in USA" or anything such. It's common knowledge that these are chinese castings. And they're priced accordingly as well. There's a difference between a chinese $2500 cylinder head and a US head starting at $4200...I'm not even sure how anyone could compare M311 heads to the F-Series, CID, Brodix, and many others. They are completely different in price and quality.
You can tell the difference between these two styles of heads simply by the valve cover rail. If it uses a stock style valve cover bolted from the middle, it's an M311. If its got a sb2.2 style perimeter bolt valve cover, that's an F-Series.
Originally Posted by GavinFED
Again, the heads on Alibaba are a Mast Medium Bore copy...that should be a good indication of who is copying who on literature. lol.
And just to clarify, you're upset that we used chinese seats in a chinese casting for significantly less money than our F-Series heads with good parts? How much did you purchase these M311 heads for (with what valves) and how much did you purchase your CID heads (with what parts)?
That's like complaining that your Hyundai at a new purchase price of $18,999 didn't have the quality or power of a C7 ZR1 at 100k lol.
Yeah, lets clarify. We called FED, FED tells us these heads will handle what we were doing with the car, they broke because they're junk and we are upset we wasted money on your china heads. Clear enough?
But I'm glad you just pointed out that the M311 heads don't have good parts and aren't good heads. Great advertising. LOL. I think FED should take what you're sayin to heart and rename the heads from "Monster series" to "Hyundai Series". Atleast then people will know what they're getting.
You're continuing to prove my point. You're literally in here saying that I have no right to be upset that the heads we were sold by FED for the application we said they would be used for are cheap china junk *** heads and what did I expect?
Every time its the same with your company. "Well you didn't buy the F series". Well, you're right and because of how FED punked us, we never will.
We have less in the CID setup than a set of a comparable set of F series FED heads. CID made sure of it.
This isn't about us being cheap, its about being sensible. If a company tells us "hey man, this product is gonna do what you need it to do" then we will spend less money on the monster series and put the extra cash somewhere else in the car. These heads lasted less than 1 season. We aren't "rich" racers but we aren't broke.
Originally Posted by JRFed
Oh I remember that post, not your fault BTW but that started a wild fire between us over a silly post IMO.
There was data shared by a mutual customer, sharing his results. That stirred the pot as we were taking shots at certain people and manufactures which we didn't. We just shared a post.
Originally Posted by ddnspider
If you could go ahead and make that happen, I would like to order 2 please
The FED internet cleaners and nut swingers in full effect. I love it.
All I see in here is broken / rusted up FED ****, FED admitting that their M311 heads are china junk and customers that aren't happy with the power they're making.
Yeah, lets clarify. We called FED, FED tells us these heads will handle what we were doing with the car, they broke because they're junk and we are upset we wasted money on your china heads. Clear enough?
But I'm glad you just pointed out that the M311 heads don't have good parts and aren't good heads. Great advertising. LOL. I think FED should take what you're sayin to heart and rename the heads from "Monster series" to "Hyundai Series". Atleast then people will know what they're getting.
You're continuing to prove my point. You're literally in here saying that I have no right to be upset that the heads we were sold by FED for the application we said they would be used for are cheap china junk *** heads and what did I expect?
Every time its the same with your company. "Well you didn't buy the F series". Well, you're right and because of how FED punked us, we never will.
We have less in the CID setup than a set of a comparable set of F series FED heads. CID made sure of it.
This isn't about us being cheap, its about being sensible. If a company tells us "hey man, this product is gonna do what you need it to do" then we will spend less money on the monster series and put the extra cash somewhere else in the car. These heads lasted less than 1 season. We aren't "rich" racers but we aren't broke.
The FED internet cleaners and nut swingers in full effect. I love it.
All I see in here is broken / rusted up FED ****, FED admitting that their M311 heads are china junk and customers that aren't happy with the power they're making.
Keep it up fellas, you're doing great.
My joke obviously went over your head by your reply. I have no dog in the fight and have zero to do with the sponsor. Check your facts first and stop being so emotional.
My joke obviously went over your head by your reply. I have no dog in the fight and have zero to do with the sponsor. Check your facts first and stop being so emotional.
You don't have anything to do with anything in this post. Got it. LOL
Yeah, lets clarify. We called FED, FED tells us these heads will handle what we were doing with the car, they broke because they're junk and we are upset we wasted money on your china heads. Clear enough?
But I'm glad you just pointed out that the M311 heads don't have good parts and aren't good heads. Great advertising. LOL. I think FED should take what you're sayin to heart and rename the heads from "Monster series" to "Hyundai Series". Atleast then people will know what they're getting.
You're continuing to prove my point. You're literally in here saying that I have no right to be upset that the heads we were sold by FED for the application we said they would be used for are cheap china junk *** heads and what did I expect?
Every time its the same with your company. "Well you didn't buy the F series". Well, you're right and because of how FED punked us, we never will.
We have less in the CID setup than a set of a comparable set of F series FED heads. CID made sure of it.
This isn't about us being cheap, its about being sensible. If a company tells us "hey man, this product is gonna do what you need it to do" then we will spend less money on the monster series and put the extra cash somewhere else in the car. These heads lasted less than 1 season. We aren't "rich" racers but we aren't broke.
The FED internet cleaners and nut swingers in full effect. I love it.
All I see in here is broken / rusted up FED ****, FED admitting that their M311 heads are china junk and customers that aren't happy with the power they're making.
Keep it up fellas, you're doing great.
Instead of this back and forth, drop a name, sales order and serial number. Let's see exactly how we "punked" you. I'll pull the records and let's see what really happened as no one here knows you nor remembers dealing with the issues you mention. Easy to bash a company without a name or facts.
Easy to play the blame game when the end user has no knowledge on the product or that isn't mechanically incline. To be clear I said end user and not directly about you.
I'd like to keep this focused on OP's build thread if possible. If allowed we can make another thread in a different section if needed.
idk I'd like to see the same engine in a car vs a similar engine say Cdubbzz 430 engine swap .... I JUST can't see it making less than Cdubbzz. Fair is only fair in respect to Hp.
.750+ or abouts for lift low 260's cam with Compression around 12.8 with Cdubbzz
.800+ Lift more compression and cam duration nets more Hp alone on its self. Let alone fuel used.
If the heads were swapped with say a Mast or CID casting what would the difference be? Throw in Brodix BS and Richard's wcch All Pro updated 290cc
the dyno maybe correct but it's super stingy ...
I don't Believe this engine made more Hp than a 430 cubed engine at this compression ratio. 430 cubes just on piston Surface area Alone Vs a engine and it's down 22 cubes. Flyin also at 810 fwhp with 418 cubes @ 13.5 comp. (4.155) Piston bore size Surface area at 14+ should net more than either.
idk I'd like to see the same engine in a car vs a similar engine say Cdubbzz 430 engine swap .... I JUST can't see it making less than Cdubbzz. Fair is only fair in respect to Hp.
.750+ or abouts for lift low 260's cam with Compression around 12.8 with Cdubbzz
.800+ Lift more compression and cam duration nets more Hp alone on its self. Let alone fuel used.
If the heads were swapped with say a Mast or CID casting what would the difference be? Throw in Brodix BS and Richard's wcch All Pro updated 290cc
the dyno maybe correct but it's super stingy ...
I don't Believe this engine made more Hp than a 430 cubed engine at this compression ratio. 430 cubes just on piston Surface area Alone Vs a engine and it's down 22 cubes. Flyin also at 810 fwhp with 418 cubes @ 13.5 comp. (4.155) Piston bore size Surface area at 14+ should net more than either.
LOL, its been out there for a bit, on here as well. Everything I have is for sale, once I am done with the fun, I like moving on to something different. Lol. This is by far the nicest NA LS I have done and it has been a fun learning experience.
Don't question the numbers, it is the others I would question. This combo did what it did. Ultimately, it will land in between the rails of this car (if I still have it in the Spring!) That will be great data to support this thread if it occurs.
I just turned down 20K for it (with the pumps), I just don't seem to feel complete with it, it would be gone if that parts I wanted to get would be available before mid-March, but they are not.
I have a cam from Bullet being delivered towards the end of this week, been ordered since the 1st. It has faster lobes than what is in it, very similar in size. Going to try it and see what its worth. Also, I noticed a rocker arm that was not happy, so I have a replacement on order. As soon as the parts are here I will be re-testing, basically cam against cam. It wouldn't be unlikley to see 10-20HP if the 'theories' hold true.
LOL, its been out there for a bit, on here as well. Everything I have is for sale, once I am done with the fun, I like moving on to something different. Lol. This is by far the nicest NA LS I have done and it has been a fun learning experience.
Don't question the numbers, it is the others I would question. This combo did what it did. Ultimately, it will land in between the rails of this car (if I still have it in the Spring!) That will be great data to support this thread if it occurs.
I just turned down 20K for it (with the pumps), I just don't seem to feel complete with it, it would be gone if that parts I wanted to get would be available before mid-March, but they are not.
I have a cam from Bullet being delivered towards the end of this week, been ordered since the 1st. It has faster lobes than what is in it, very similar in size. Going to try it and see what its worth. Also, I noticed a rocker arm that was not happy, so I have a replacement on order. As soon as the parts are here I will be re-testing, basically cam against cam. It wouldn't be unlikley to see 10-20HP if the 'theories' hold true.
More testing soon.
Does Frankenstein seem to feel this output is on par with what the heads should me making?
John CID replacement head test needed ...
Common sense and a stroker ls3 having said 810 fwhp @ 8200 & 2700lbs and this makes less than said known Engine.
Cid and John can or could clear up the BS... either the port program makes money or it doesn't...EFI university did well besides what's said and Hp using the F710.
CID has fast cars as well as FED. I just need a process of eliminating with Mamo and or who ever may else one wants to include aka Richard's all Pro up dated 285 to 290 head.
I know this ***** for sure the engine in this thread would or should be faster than a known 418 ls3 stock sleeved block @ 8.8 sec in a 2700lbs vehicle. That's for damn Certain.
Does Frankenstein seem to feel this output is on par with what the heads should me making?
I don't know, they were contributing to the thread, maybe they can chime in. I follow their forum on FB and haven't seen many NA builds that are similar sharing detailed dyno info or track performance. Been waiting. There seems to be a lot of these heads out there.
Everyone I've posted was said to be inflated... Damn near Evertime and I've posted a few. Corrected everytime by ER with ....look at the Tq and its not accurate with others... also a Big mess and a older thread made.
The Dirt Track engine builds I would think are more similar than different? Compression over 14 points solid roller with over .800 lift. But no Hard details.. Greg G said that the F heads needed more cam than the CID heads to make similar Hp in that thread with the same builder and Dirt engine comparison...Here's a kinda thing that would make a person think about what's shown and very similar.
SAMTECH copo 427 which was 440 cubes Hydraulic roller with less lift and a 102 mm High ram. 820 fwhp.
Compression was @ +14 points. Cam listed was 258 duration with .670 lift tested at SAM. No vacuum pump used.
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