Generation IV Internal Engine 2005-2014 LS2 | LS3 | LS7 | L92 | LS9

Bay-to-bay breathing question

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Dec 16, 2021 | 06:53 PM
  #1  
Utinator's Avatar
Thread Starter
12 Second Club
5 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
 
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 224
From: San Antonio
Default Bay-to-bay breathing question

I saw this mentioned in another thread, but I didn't want to hi-jack that one. I was looking for clarification on what bay-to-bay breathing is and why it's important. Can someone explain this please? Is this only a concern with longer stroke crankshafts? Is it just a high rpm issue?

I heard that the truck engines don't have bay-to-bay breathing, but the car engines do. So, does that mean that the LS3 and L92 are not identical blocks? I know trucks and cars commonly use different intakes and cams, but I always thought the engine blocks were the same. Does anyone have a photo that shows the differences?
Reply
Old Dec 16, 2021 | 07:22 PM
  #2  
01CamaroSSTx's Avatar
11 Second Club
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,009
Likes: 2,290
From: Conroe, Texas
Default


LS9


LS7


RHS

Reply
Old Dec 17, 2021 | 07:26 AM
  #3  
Double06's Avatar
TECH Resident
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 765
Likes: 284
From: Potomac, MD
Default

The bay-to-bay helps with Hi RPM breathing so on a truck less of an issue. Also the bay-to-bay does weaken the block a little so that is why they keep them on the trucks. The ls2, l3, ls7 and the ls9 all have the bay-to-bay breathing. The issue with the LS block because of its Y shaped and shallow oil pan design and 6 bolt mains the individual bays don't breath as well as the old school small/big block chevy. Basically, the non bay-to-bay blocks compartmentalizes the cylinder banks too much. The new Dart LS block does not have bay-to-bay but has the old 4 bolt main cap design and a wider bottom skirt. I think GM did tests and it was worth like 10-15 hp on the 505 hp ls7 motor. The bay-to-bay helps equalize the cylinders as it relates to the crankcase stuff. On blower motor guys are more interested in strength the crankcase breathing stuff that is why they use the 5.3 blocks. So the holes you see above are filled in on the 5.3 and truck blocks.
Reply
Old Dec 17, 2021 | 09:07 AM
  #4  
Utinator's Avatar
Thread Starter
12 Second Club
5 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
 
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 224
From: San Antonio
Default

Ok, thanks for the photos and explanation. I saw the "coves" cut out of the side of the block right where the cross bolts go into the main cap (pic below). I thought that was the breathing window. So, I need to look closer to the cylinder to tell if a block has a breathing window. Does anyone have a pic of an L92 block? They are more common than the LS3 or L99.


Reply
Old Dec 17, 2021 | 10:19 AM
  #5  
grinder11's Avatar
TECH Junkie
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,212
Likes: 1,612
From: Michigan & Florida
Default

Originally Posted by Utinator
Ok, thanks for the photos and explanation. I saw the "coves" cut out of the side of the block right where the cross bolts go into the main cap (pic below). I thought that was the breathing window. So, I need to look closer to the cylinder to tell if a block has a breathing window. Does anyone have a pic of an L92 block? They are more common than the LS3 or L99.

You're correct, the "coves", or scallops, do aid in the bay to bay breathing. Earlier LS1 blocks didn't have the cast in windows in their blocks, but had a rather large hole machined thru the main caps. Some builders swear that the early blocks ('99-'00) are stronger due to not having the cast in windows. IIRC, all the Gen 3 blocks had the coves/scallops. If I'm wrong, I'll soon be corrected!!
Reply
Old Dec 17, 2021 | 12:44 PM
  #6  
01CamaroSSTx's Avatar
11 Second Club
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,009
Likes: 2,290
From: Conroe, Texas
Default

There might be some truth to that as I've seen three LS7 blocks that were used in high boost applications where some of the crank saddles had been torn from the sides of the block.
Reply
Old Dec 18, 2021 | 09:39 AM
  #7  
grinder11's Avatar
TECH Junkie
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,212
Likes: 1,612
From: Michigan & Florida
Default

Originally Posted by 01CamaroSSTx
There might be some truth to that as I've seen three LS7 blocks that were used in high boost applications where some of the crank saddles had been torn from the sides of the block.
I got my info from Steve@Race Engine Development. I value his experienced opinion.
Reply
Old Dec 20, 2021 | 02:56 PM
  #8  
Utinator's Avatar
Thread Starter
12 Second Club
5 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
 
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 224
From: San Antonio
Default

Originally Posted by grinder11
I got my info from Steve@Race Engine Development. I value his experienced opinion.
Is he the one that drills holes in the truck engines to make them bay-to-bay breathe better?
Reply
LS1 Tech Stories

The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time

story-0

Topdon ONE vs. Artidiag 800 BT2: Which is the Diagnostic Tablet For You?

 Pouria Savadkouei
story-1

Gas Monkey Built a 6-Wheel Ferrari Testarossa With a Corvette LT4 Engine

 Verdad Gallardo
story-2

7 Most Reliable High-Performance Engines GM Has Ever Built

 Verdad Gallardo
story-3

Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin

 Verdad Gallardo
story-4

6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them

 Pouria Savadkouei
story-5

Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph

 Verdad Gallardo
story-6

Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked

 Pouria Savadkouei
story-7

Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!

 
story-8

Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP

 Verdad Gallardo
story-9

Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes

 Verdad Gallardo
Old Dec 20, 2021 | 03:38 PM
  #9  
Corona's Avatar
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 682
Default

Originally Posted by Utinator
Is he the one that drills holes in the truck engines to make them bay-to-bay breathe better?
correct
Reply
Old Dec 20, 2021 | 03:44 PM
  #10  
Corona's Avatar
Banned
 
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 682
Default


would this be considered bay to bay with a Hole the entire length of the block? Iron block love..
Reply
Old Dec 20, 2021 | 05:31 PM
  #11  
01CamaroSSTx's Avatar
11 Second Club
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,009
Likes: 2,290
From: Conroe, Texas
Default


Yes! 6.0 liters of love.
Reply
Old Dec 20, 2021 | 06:17 PM
  #12  
Utinator's Avatar
Thread Starter
12 Second Club
5 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
 
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 224
From: San Antonio
Default

Does anyone have a photo of Steve's work? I might consider trying it too.
Reply
Old Dec 21, 2021 | 01:17 AM
  #13  
Steve - Race Eng's Avatar
LS1TECH Sponsor
20 Year Member
Top Answer: 1
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 739
Likes: 177
From: Oceanside, Ca.
Default 5.3 breather hole

Originally Posted by Utinator
Does anyone have a photo of Steve's work? I might consider trying it too.
Here you go. The hole I drill through is identical in size and location to the holes on the original LS1 block.


__________________
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2021 | 08:57 PM
  #14  
Utinator's Avatar
Thread Starter
12 Second Club
5 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
 
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 224
From: San Antonio
Default

Why is there a hole in the end, just under the cam bearing plate area? It looks like it could sling oil out.
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2021 | 09:31 PM
  #15  
spanks13's Avatar
TECH Fanatic
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,423
Likes: 619
Default

Originally Posted by Utinator
Why is there a hole in the end, just under the cam bearing plate area? It looks like it could sling oil out.
how else would you drill the other holes?
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2021 | 10:24 PM
  #16  
G Atsma's Avatar
TECH Senior Member
5 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22,298
Likes: 3,619
From: Central Cal.
Default

Originally Posted by spanks13
how else would you drill the other holes?
I don't think he thought the question all the way through.....
Besides, it should help lube the cam chain and sprockets
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2021 | 11:06 PM
  #17  
Steve - Race Eng's Avatar
LS1TECH Sponsor
20 Year Member
Top Answer: 1
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 739
Likes: 177
From: Oceanside, Ca.
Default Breather hole drilling

Originally Posted by spanks13
how else would you drill the other holes?
The front three bulkheads are drilled through the front of the block. The block is then reversed to drill two matching holes from the back of the block. This takes roughly three hours of set up time and machining. Also a photo of a factory drilled LS1 block being machined for MID sleeves many years ago showing the same hole in the front of the block. You would need a huge machine to drill from the back avoiding the front bulkhead. Even GM didn't do it that way.




__________________
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2021 | 11:35 PM
  #18  
G Atsma's Avatar
TECH Senior Member
5 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22,298
Likes: 3,619
From: Central Cal.
Default

Which operational circumstances would most benefit from "bay windows"?
I can see converting Gen IV aluminum 5.3L blocks to LS6 specs via this operation and boring to 5.7L spec. Usable LS6 blocks are getting rare.
Reply
Old Dec 23, 2021 | 08:01 AM
  #19  
Utinator's Avatar
Thread Starter
12 Second Club
5 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
 
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 224
From: San Antonio
Default

Originally Posted by spanks13
how else would you drill the other holes?
I was thinking about using a small angle grinder with a short drill bit, then a small burr. I'm not sure how much room is in there though. I don't have a big enough drill to go in from the ends.

It just looks like the holes in the end would allow oil to get into the front and back covers. I know those covers can leak, and I wouldn't want to encourage them more. I probably won't try this after all. It looks like something that is better left to the professionals.
Reply
Old Dec 23, 2021 | 08:22 AM
  #20  
Double06's Avatar
TECH Resident
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 765
Likes: 284
From: Potomac, MD
Default

Steve - I thought I read somewhere you thought the hole drilling was worth about 10 hp on a NA motor.
Reply



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:44 PM.

story-0
Topdon ONE vs. Artidiag 800 BT2: Which is the Diagnostic Tablet For You?

Slideshow: We take a close look at the ONE and Artidiag 800BT2 diagnostic tools from Topdon and the reasons to buy one over the other.

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-05-28 11:05:11


VIEW MORE
story-1
Gas Monkey Built a 6-Wheel Ferrari Testarossa With a Corvette LT4 Engine

Slideshow: The controversial Ferrari F6 swaps its original flat-12 for a Corvette Z06-derived LT4 V8 and sends power to four rear wheels through a custom-built drivetrain.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-26 18:23:54


VIEW MORE
story-2
7 Most Reliable High-Performance Engines GM Has Ever Built

Slideshow:These GM engines didn't just make huge power, they survived abuse, boost, track days, and six-digit mileage with a reputation for refusing to quit.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-21 16:45:27


VIEW MORE
story-3
Amazing '71 Camaro Restomod Is Modern Muscle Car Under the Skin

Slideshow: This heavily modified 1971 Camaro mixes classic muscle car styling with a fifth-generation Camaro interior and modern LS3 power.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-12 18:06:42


VIEW MORE
story-4
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them

Slideshow: From wobbling harmonic balancers to failed EBCMs, these are the issues that define long-term C5 ownership and what repairs typically involve.

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-05-07 18:44:57


VIEW MORE
story-5
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph

Slideshow: A modern Camaro transformed into a retro icon, this limited-run "Bandit" build blends nostalgia with brute force in a way few revivals manage.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-04-21 13:57:02


VIEW MORE
story-6
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked

Slideshow: Cadillac didn't just crash the high-performance luxury vehicle party, it showed up loud, supercharged, and occasionally a little unhinged...

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-04-16 10:05:15


VIEW MORE
story-7
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!

Slideshow: Top ten most powerful Chevy trucks ever made

By | 2026-03-25 09:22:26


VIEW MORE
story-8
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP

Slideshow: Hennessey has turned the Silverado ZR2 into a 700-hp off-road monster with supercharged V8 power and a limited production run.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-03-24 18:57:52


VIEW MORE
story-9
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes

Slideshow: A one-off sports car that looks like a vintage Italian exotic-but hides a C6 Corvette underneath-just sold for the price of a new mid-engine Corvette.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-03-23 18:53:41


VIEW MORE