JH78

Hello,Im new here and i would like some advice. I have a 2013 chevy express 2500 van with a 6.0. It has been stumbling at idle, mechanic says low compression in cylinder 4 (tested) and says it's a bad valve. I'm looking to do the top end; heads, cam, lifters etc. I am wondering what advice you may have for a good set up? Budget friendly would be nice. The mechanic quoted $5500 just for remanufactured heads! Seems crazy to just be stock again. It's a work and family truck, also my daily. We use it tow our camper and boat. Thanks for any help, I realize it's not the sexiest LS platform but I actually love this truck!

theunderlord

So you have the "L96" 6.0 and you could more than likely find a pair (or just one) of OE cylinder heads (which are fine) for dirt cheap. Even cheaper, just replace any valves that need it, it all depends on if it is the valve, or the valve seal in the cylinder head.

Then, throw a "truck / torque " cam from a myriad of choices, summit, BTR, CamMotion, LS7 style lifters and throw a tune at it and make your tow rig much improved. A crap ton of labor I would imagine to do it since you're dealing with the van. Aftermarket cylinder heads for this application would be a waste IMO.

But, your engine has VVT, so you would either need to delete the phaser and the stuff to do a VVT Delete, do some googling on that for sure, if that is the route you want to go.

JH78

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. I'm not really interested in aftermarket heads unless I got a good deal. Mostly just looking for a good 'recipe' if that makes sense? Should I use 706 heads, what cam etc.

I just think if I'm doing it anyway is there upgrades to think about?

​​​​​​​thanks again

theunderlord

Of course man, that's what we're here for.

I think for your diagnosed issue, and the "while you're in there" factor, (the 4 scariest words in hot rodding ) the lifters and cam are the big ones. Depending on how many miles on the Van, and your budget, replacing the heads with another set, 706/843/etc with new valves could be a smart plan. (from the standpoint of a quick repair, having the assembled heads to just swap on.

Also, and this is is important, depending on the cam you go with, if you do something with more lift, going to an upgraded valve spring and rocker arm trunnion upgrade would be a great idea as well. The tuning aspect of getting that new cam to play. also, be sure and get new lifter trays too, don't use the old ones!

Do some searching around here and you'll find some great threads and videos on those subjects that can help you get acquainted. It definitely can be overwhelming, but there's great info on here. We have great site sponsors in Summit Racing and TexasSpeed and others that sell all of the above and both have great tech support, so don't be afraid to give them a ring.

the VVT thing has been covered a ton, and many places sell a kit for it.

JH78

Thanks again,

That's what I'm thinking. I can't be down for too long so it would be nice to have everything ready to go. I'll look into your suggestions.

Are 821 ls3 heads a good match for my application? What cam? Reason I ask is because I can get a rebuilt set for a good price?

theunderlord

I'll leave that one to those who have more experience with specifics.

here's a search I found for you though; https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...823-heads.html

just remember, LS1tech is a land of contrasts.

jon1440

Just spit ballin here. You implied that you cant be down for long and need your van back up and running. 5500 coming from a shop seems about accurate also. My first thing of action if it was my van and I needed it running soon is first perform your own pressure test or at least get some one that has an unbiased opinion about the situation and have them perform one. If the pressure isnt much different than the other cylinders then your motor might be fine. The stumble at idle could be handful of things. From an above post, the cylinder heads are cheap used and also if its just a valve leaking, you could take your current cylinder head and have a machine shop redo the valve seat and replace the valve. I just had some heads rebuilt and I believe it was under 500 that including a minor port job. Also consider the VVT delete.

Doing all this yourself, you'd probably be in for 1500. Head repair, possibly new head bolts, (probably should), Head gaskets, fluids, etc.

Corona

This young man said it...above, drop the heads off at the local machine shop and get them fixed

A great mechanic should charge around 400 to change the heads

$200 take off
$200 replace
$500 max

Houston cost
is one of those you'd need to drop the cradle to get to the heads? Add 2 to $300.

Getting them fix locally and purchasing your own parts like lifters, springs,, etc will be way less than $5500.
your just paying for R&R.

JH78

Thanks again for the replies.

The van is actually pretty easy to work on once the dog house is removed. The worst part is the cam replacment from what i see. Im a millwright and an electrician and my brother is a mechanic so i think we'll do it ourselves when im ready.

I havent looked yet as there is 3' of snow here, do vans always have vvt? I've seen some info saying that they don't, some say they do. I should probably just look....

I really appreciate the help. Does anyone have a set up that they would recommend? I want to have all the parts ready when it happens, i dont want to go the machine shop route with the heads that are on it. If thats the way i go, I'll get another set ready so it's a quicker swap

G Atsma

Vans with Gen IV engines generally have VVT. The earlier Gen III engines did not.

jon1440

If very well could not have vvt. My works trucks 09, 12, 16, 6.0s don’t have it. Take a look at the valley cover to make sure. If looks like a bunch of oil veins all over it then you do. If it’s flat, then no

Corona

👍 heads at the machine shop if they're not busy would be around a day or so. Versus buying a used head then checking it out or the cost of a new head either needing the parts spoken on in lifters, springs etc...


I get what your saying. But a head with parts on thrusday at the machine shop typically could be a return on Friday afternoon with R&R with 🍺 for the wkend with a little food for the munchies.

Smoker's alert...speaking for self on da munchies 🤣

Summitracing

OP,

You've received some great advice from the community. Being that this is your daily do-all vehicle we would try and stick to the KISS method. We really like what @jon1440 said about performing your own compression/leak down test to confirm the results.

Regarding the heads and cam. If this is indeed the original L96 in your 2013 2500 van you would have 823 rec port heads and VVT. The easiest thing to do is repair only what needs repairing on those heads or find another set and have those gone over. The last thing you want to do is buy some used heads only to put them on and find they also have worn-out valves/seats. We saw you mentioned 706 heads. Those have cathedral ports so at a minimum you would be needing to source a cathedral port intake manifold. If the cam and lifters are in good shape we'd just keep them unless you feel there's a void and need for more power/torque. The more you change the more time and money you'll have invested. For a weekend project, with fewer things changed means more money in your pocket and less downtime.

If you felt there was a need for more power/torque in the van there are aftermarket cam options out there. There are aftermarket companies that offer VVT cams. Those are typically geared towards cars with powerbands moved to the right. Other than that you would be moving into aftermarket 3-bolt cams. Something in the torque cam or stage 1 truck cam category would be good to look at. Instead of the 1-bolt cam gear and VVT phaser, you would need the NAL-12586481 3-bolt 4X cam gear. We have that included in our CMB-09-0027 VVT Delete kit. If you change the cam then at minimum you'll be changing lifters, trays, springs, tuning, etc.

We want to sell a Pro LS cam to everyone, but we're not here to just sell parts if they aren't necessarily needed. We can offer up cam recommendations but want to make sure that is indeed the path you want to go down first.

JH78

Thank you for all the replies! I really appreciate it.

@Summitracing I'm looking at the following set of heads as a replacement, this is the information that the seller gave me;
"GM LS3 “821” cylinder heads. 68cc chamber, 260cc intake, lightweight valves & 1.59” stainless exhaust valves . New GM Seals & GM LS3 springs, milled & ready to bolt on. Great upgrade for any LS engine."

Do you think this is a good set up? What cam would you recommend?

Thanks again

G Atsma

Milled how much? You need to know....

theunderlord

^^^^ very much you need to know

gagliano7

The 821 heads are basically the same as your heads with what i have read they have lighter valves. .

JH78

Thanks, sorry I left that out

They have been milled .0025 (2.5 thousands)

G Atsma

Just a light cleanup skim. I wouldn't even call that "milled". UNLESS it is actually .025.....

Summitracing

Exactly where we're at G. Not uncommon for folks to add or remove an all-important 0 when talking thousandths of inches.

OP,

821 heads would be a good replacement for your 823s. They could be considered an upgrade since 821 heads have lighter weight hollow-stem intake valves. We would recommend checking with the seller to confirm these were just cleaned up .0025" and not milled .025". We're not trying to say you're wrong about .0025". This is just an area to be 100% sure on. There is a pretty big difference between .0025" and .025". That's about a .5cc to 4cc difference in chamber volume. That would equate to roughly 67.5cc at .0025" or 64cc at .025". Then as far as compression with a .051" head gasket you'd be a bit over 9.7:1 with 67.5cc heads and around 10.1:1 with 64cc heads. It's not bad either way but something you want to be sure what it actually is. As long as they are fresh like the seller says then these sound like a good buy. You could always take them to the machine shop and have them cc the chamber to confirm what they are actually at.

Onto a cam recommendation. Going from what you've described thus far there are two Pro LS cams we're thinking of.

Option 1: First up is our SUM-8727R1 "Torkinator" Truck cam. Specs on it are .550/.550, 200/205, 113+4 with -23* of overlap. It's small and what most would call a baby cam. We wouldn't typically recommend it for a 6.0. However, from what you've described so far with how this van is used we think this is a good fit here. With .070" more lift than the factory L96 cam and a 29* IVC @ .050" this will be a torquey/responsive cam that will maintain great efficiency. It will provide a nice bump in power/torque and make pulling the boat or camper up and down the road easier. The nice thing with this cam is it will work with the new LS3 springs that were just installed on the 821 heads. This wouldn't make the van a "race car" by any means but you'll feel a noticeable difference. The idle will be barely noticeable to nearly smooth with its -9* IVO @ .050".

Option 2: The 2nd one we would look at and really like for a daily 6.0 tow rig is our "Big Torkinator" SUM-8728R1. Specs on it are .600/.585, 212/218, 110+3 with -5* of overlap. This will be very strong from 2,000 on up and pull good to 6,500. With its -1* IVO @.050" you'll have a steady lope but it will be easy to get along with once you get it tuned. Between the increased lift, duration, and overlap this will provide a very noticeable increase in power/torque across the range. With the 8728R1 it would turn your van into a very strong tow rig. You'll likely find that you can use less throttle between gears getting up to speed when towing. That will help maintain efficiency as long as you can keep your foot out of it when you feel that extra power With the .600" lift your .550" lift LS3 springs will have to be replaced with some .600" lift beehives. We have our own SUM-174004 .600" lift beehives that will keep the valvetrain happy with this cam to 6,500+.

Either of these cams will be happy with stock gearing, converter, and exhaust. If you could free up the exhaust, especially with the 8728R1 that would help but not at all required.

Pushrods are something we need to cover. You'll want some upgraded pushrods. With the 8727R1 we typically see a 7.400" pushrod used. With the 8728R1 we typically see a 7.400" or 7.425" pushrod. Things can vary so we always recommend measuring for pushrod length before purchasing pushrods. This is especially true if the heads have been milled. If you don't already have a pushrod length checker we offer the Trickflow TFS-9501. For pushrods, we recommend a minimum of a 5/16" Chromoly pushrod with a .080" wall. You can typically find a set of 16 for around $100. From there you can get into a thicker wall or larger diameter pushrod. For excellent stability and strength check out our 11/32" HDR pushrods with a .120" wall. These have 25% less stress and 28% less deflection than a typical 5/16" x .080" wall Chromoly pushrod.

Something else to help with the install. We have a cam swap install kit. That is part number CMB-09-0029. This includes the timing cover gasket, water pump gaskets, oil pump o-rings, LS2 timing chain, valve cover gaskets, and harmonic balancer bolt.

That covers a good bit. Let us know if we can be of any further assistance. We'll be happy to help!