When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
How are you ranking a bare casting? Material? Deck thickness? Spring pocket? Valve angle? I ask this because before the CNC port and chamber work and hand finish is applied, you only have a big heavy chunk of aluminum.
Bare Casting, Material, Deck thickness, Spring pocket, Valve angle (all are 12 degress) Valve Length also.
Added with What all the Porters Have said...
Chad, Cesar, Darin, Scott, GG, etc.... All say basically the same thing CID casting is #1
if you don't do CID Purchase Brodix.
Thought of the day on a longer than standard Ls7 valve. What causes the valve to be longer?
Both answers are a Plus and a Good reason to pick the longer valve cylinder head.
Hell you guys got me thinking... btw thank you cause I was thinking it now typing it ...it's a done deal.
I know how much the CID small bore ls7 exhaust valve was moved to fit (Cesar the guy Who made the CID Ls7 heads for GPI that Broke the ls3 stock short block record.) I also know how they fit a 2.250 valve in the Mast STR8 for a 4.00 inch bore. I bet all what I'm thinking of could be done to the BS head. And not moving the exhaust valve. So That HPR 285 head with the 2.240 Hollow stem could fit with a 1 degree angle mill. 🤔 Shrink the exhaust valve again. Ask GG for a hair smaller port @ around 280cc which he could rough into the cnc program.
Boom 400 cfm with a smaller bore. 🤣😂
Funny thing is MBE did it with a Brodix casting also. Was told it was good on a 418cid to 8000rpm = around a 280 cc port.
I talked to the owner of MBE about ☝... He said CID is #1, he also has a new video on there cnc program for the CID heads and intake saying the same thing I was told.
Been researching today on heads myself today. Its a guy on here went from Hipd TFS 245 heads to Brodix BR-1 245 heads on a turbo 427ci build.
Car went faster with the Brodix heads.
Wonder would that be the same result on a N/A build?
Its very interesting to remove a 245 runner head on a motor just to put another 245 runner head back on the motor and the valve angle are the same on both heads .....
I watch a lot of Richard Holdener videos. One point always stressed is that boost just magnifies whatever characteristics the NA engine would have. If a weak low end, stronger under boost, but still relatively weak. Boost just raises the curves from the existing.
So Tusky, about your question on whether the result would be the same NA as boosted. I think yes, but with lower overall numbers. The curves are just lowered. Same peaks and valleys.
I'm leery of going too big on the intake port. 270 cc or so seems good. Any bigger, you lose crazy torque down below and they are better suited to forced induction then. This is for a 427. I raced a Z06 with a RPM heads and cam kit. I kill him off the line, I stop pulling in 2nd gear, and he passes me in 3rd gear.
I'm leery of going too big on the intake port. 270 cc or so seems good. Any bigger, you lose crazy torque down below and they are better suited to forced induction then. This is for a 427. I raced a Z06 with a RPM heads and cam kit. I kill him off the line, I stop pulling in 2nd gear, and he passes me in 3rd gear.
Im go say its not only the runner size that plays a role. Im go say the valve size of a given bore has a "Sweet Spot" to make the magic happen.
The baddest/fastest N/A LS2 sbe cars on ive seen have something in common using cathedral factory castings. They both have a 2.05 intake valve on a 4.000 inch bore. Well aint that something.... here is a screenshot of one of those cars.
I'm leery of going too big on the intake port. 270 cc or so seems good. Any bigger, you lose crazy torque down below and they are better suited to forced induction then. This is for a 427. I raced a Z06 with a RPM heads and cam kit. I kill him off the line, I stop pulling in 2nd gear, and he passes me in 3rd gear.
What makes a head above 270 cc too big for a 427? Rpm is King of Hp & Speed. If the same guy Had used a better gear you Wouldn't have killed him off the line with a higher Launch point. If it would Hook and Book.
avg 7500 rpm Ls7 needs a min of 2.94 mcsa which equals to around 270cc Same head would make for a 7800 to 8k head with a 408. There's a difference between a more aggressive head and what would be seen as a street head. Key is intake choice with heads choosen.
How I pick a head is starting off with a Goal on Hp for a given Size combination and rpm. If your going for Xxx on hp at xxxx rpm with X intake you may not need X cylinder head.
I'll put it like this if a guy has a 427 with a Solid roller with .780 lift going to 7500 -8k with a CID intake I'm getting CID/Brodix BS heads with a Greg Good or Cesar program.
427 with a hydraulic roller going to 7k with a MSD I'd get TFS or Brodix.
Look @ who's doing what with What.. Cdub? Then Look at the avg TFS ls7 MSD combinations. There's a difference in Intake Choice and where the Tq is and the engines Purpose.
Cdub could lose around 6 degrees on intake duration and it would place him in the mid 250 range. That's about Avg for a HEALTHY Solid Roller stroker out to Kill. So using the same smaller cam in the mid 250 range wouldn't get some of that Tq back and Lower rpm peak. Still using a CID intake. It's all about purpose and how 1 looks at a LS combination.
Plastic or 4500?
Let your intake pick the heads... I'm not getting a CID head for a MSD intake if you know what I mean.
What makes a head above 270 cc too big for a 427? Rpm is King of Hp & Speed. If the same guy Had used a better gear you Wouldn't have killed him off the line with a higher Launch point. If it would Hook and Book.
avg 7500 rpm Ls7 needs a min of 2.94 mcsa which equals to around 270cc Same head would make for a 7800 to 8k head with a 408. There's a difference between a more aggressive head and what would be seen as a street head. Key is intake choice with heads choosen.
Been researching today on heads myself today. Its a guy on here went from Hipd TFS 245 heads to Brodix BR-1 245 heads on a turbo 427ci build.
Car went faster with the Brodix heads.
Wonder would that be the same result on a N/A build?
Its very interesting to remove a 245 runner head on a motor just to put another 245 runner head back on the motor and the valve angle are the same on both heads .....
It has to be more to the puzzle....
For you...
Is maybe 5 to 10 hp on a N/A stroker build worth the money is my question for your thought on a stroker?
Im go say its not only the runner size that plays a role. Im go say the valve size of a given bore has a "Sweet Spot" to make the magic happen.
The baddest/fastest N/A LS2 sbe cars on ive seen have something in common using cathedral factory castings. They both have a 2.05 intake valve on a 4.000 inch bore. Well aint that something.... here is a screenshot of one of those cars.
I'll go Back 12yrs. Gotta Know Who and what to look 4.... I like Factory cheap Iron Ls blocks...there cheap and easy to find.
I'd like to add that this would be faster with a present day Ls7 head and newer style CID intake.. 🤣
bump....it could even use 🌽 fuel from the ⛽
Thought of the day on a longer than standard Ls7 valve. What causes the valve to be longer? Both answers are a Plus and a Good reason to pick the longer valve cylinder head.
Crickets after 8hrs so I'll answer my own question.
1) Longer valve generally means or may mean the runner is raised
2) There's been more material Added to the top of the head aka: Rocker Pad, Spring Pad, Port runner.
5.2 inch valve in a factory Ls7 head or Brodix BR7, TFS Ls7
5.4 inch valve with Mast, BR7 BS, All Pro
5.8 inch valve with CID
5.6xx inch valve with the F710
Been researching today on heads myself today. Its a guy on here went from Hipd TFS 245 heads to Brodix BR-1 245 heads on a turbo 427ci build.
Car went faster with the Brodix heads.
Wonder would that be the same result on a N/A build?
Its very interesting to remove a 245 runner head on a motor just to put another 245 runner head back on the motor and the valve angle are the same on both heads .....
It has to be more to the puzzle....
Port volume being the same is about the only thing heads have in common. Obviously CSA, port shape, port length, and valve size changes things. Look down the ports of the two heads and you'll see some big differences. I'll post a good picture down the port of my Mamo head and you would almost swear the valves are canted based on port shape.
Port volume being the same is about the only thing heads have in common. Obviously CSA, port shape, port length, and valve size changes things. Look down the ports of the two heads and you'll see some big differences. I'll post a good picture down the port of my Mamo head and you would almost swear the valves are canted based on port shape.
But there not Canted it's the shape of the port wall what makes it look Canted..
But there not Canted it's the shape of the port wall what makes it look Canted..
Speaking of canted, have you seen the Edelbrock LS3 Victor head? It's basically an LT port on LS3 architecture. 2.20 int valve canted. Uses stock rockers... interesting head, near zero info on it. I may have to buy a set and try them. Also, have been doing a lot of research into the old Dart LS3 heads like Speedtigger ran. Still impressive for the $$$.
Speaking of canted, have you seen the Edelbrock LS3 Victor head? It's basically an LT port on LS3 architecture. 2.20 int valve canted. Uses stock rockers... interesting head, near zero info on it. I may have to buy a set and try them. Also, have been doing a lot of research into the old Dart LS3 heads like Speedtigger ran. Still impressive for the $$$.
Ceasar @ CT porting said he thinks Chris Frank and FED made that head for Edelbrock. Ceasar also went thru a set and cleaned them up... the conversation was on FB messager with picks...
Give me a sec...need 2 rolling 1 up also on 2k22. I'll try to download the pictures...don't think I can show the conversation...I'll try.
Ceasar:
also getting close to being done with the edelbrock ls3 canted valve head. Uses stock rockers
Me:
Damn Damn Damn.
I was looking that over and Said to myself if that runner where a ls7 not ls3
Ceasar:
Oh I agree but this is one besides the canted part has the valve locations of a ls7
Using a 2.200/1.600
4.065 bore
Me:
Would be nice to have a ls7 head with a little side cant
Ceasar: Really good valve placement
Ceasar:
Supposedly Frankenstein designed this head for edelbrock but not sure why they didn't do it as an ls7 port configuration
Me:
I like creating my own stuff for my own combination... brodix gives us a pretty good price point at $1600 for the Big Spring casting.
Ceasar:
Ya thats not bad. Cid is slightly more. Better casting imo.
I don't need to post how much the exhaust valve was moved for the CID small bore .. I like Bigg Intake valves and willing to accept a 1.5x exhaust valve. CID and the F710 smaller bore heads has the Exhaust valve moved inwards. Both are under a 2.20 inch intake valve....
F that.....
Ceasar:
also getting close to being done with the edelbrock ls3 canted valve head. Uses stock rockers
Me:
Damn Damn Damn.
I was looking that over and Said to myself if that runner where a ls7 not ls3
Ceasar:
Oh I agree but this is one besides the canted part has the valve locations of a ls7
Using a 2.200/1.600
4.065 bore
Me:
Would be nice to have a ls7 head with a little side cant
Ceasar: Really good valve placement
Ceasar:
Supposedly Frankenstein designed this head for edelbrock but not sure why they didn't do it as an ls7 port configuration
Me:
I like creating my own stuff for my own combination... brodix gives us a pretty good price point at $1600 for the Big Spring casting.
Ceasar:
Ya thats not bad. Cid is slightly more. Better casting imo.
I don't need to post how much the exhaust valve was moved for the CID small bore .. I like Bigg Intake valves and willing to accept a 1.5x exhaust valve. CID and the F710 smaller bore heads has the Exhaust valve moved inwards. Both are under a 2.20 inch intake valve....
F that.....
Very interesting, lot of info in that quick conversation. What did he do to the e-brocks to clean them up? Is 4.065 the min bore size? Ebrocks page has no info on that.
Last edited by DualQuadDave; 08-23-2022 at 10:11 AM.
But there not Canted it's the shape of the port wall what makes it look Canted..
That's what I mean, two different heads with the same "size" can make drastic results based on their shape. The BR1 is a very nice head, wish I could borrow a set to put on the Dyno.
That's what I mean, two different heads with the same "size" can make drastic results based on their shape. The BR1 is a very nice head, wish I could borrow a set to put on the Dyno.
Here's a joke with Data to back it up. They tested alot of Ls7 heads on a 498 Ls build. Mast took the top spot with around 810 hp
They don't list it but I just happened to have mag..
Factory Head Ported, TSP 275 head Mast, Pro comp... https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/hr...top-ls7-heads/
Then you got the Brodix 275 head ...Non Big Spring. It's said that the Brodix has a port cnc that looks like Azzz. Which it Does if you've Seen a From Brodix cnc BR7 head. I know who does there porting....😂🤣
08-22-2022, 08:35 AM
