Which F-Body To Get??
08-16-2009, 10:52 PM
#41
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if you care about model (ws6,ss) then id go that route
but if you dont care and wanna add a hood later then do that to save some money.
since you said 80/20 i say 6 speed.
ive had both t/a and camaro i love them both.
but if you dont care and wanna add a hood later then do that to save some money.
since you said 80/20 i say 6 speed.
ive had both t/a and camaro i love them both.
08-16-2009, 10:59 PM
#42
^^ 
For the record, my A4 10 bolt had fresh diff fluid & only 3 track passes on Kumho street tires launching at 1k. I got it at 83k, diff blew at 90k. Just recently got a tune (!Torque Management) the same week as I added LS6 & LTs.
check this thread: https://ls1tech.com/forums/new-ls1-o...e-ran-vin.html
That's the thread I made before buying this car; she appeared to have been meticulously taken care of.
Point being, you can treat her right, but she can still break.
Auto will take more abuse than manual will. Either way, make sure you have some "oh ****" money sitting aside, always.
For the record, my A4 10 bolt had fresh diff fluid & only 3 track passes on Kumho street tires launching at 1k. I got it at 83k, diff blew at 90k. Just recently got a tune (!Torque Management) the same week as I added LS6 & LTs.
check this thread: https://ls1tech.com/forums/new-ls1-o...e-ran-vin.html
That's the thread I made before buying this car; she appeared to have been meticulously taken care of.
Point being, you can treat her right, but she can still break.
Auto will take more abuse than manual will. Either way, make sure you have some "oh ****" money sitting aside, always.
08-16-2009, 11:03 PM
#43
Alright man your right. I didnt just spend like 600 on my cam springs and timing chain and capable of 12's no doubt smoked my friends trans ams bad. And btw the 01-02's were rated at 365 more than the 98 and all gm numbers are sae certified. So i believe they are faster on a production stand point unless the society of automotive engineers is wrong I mean take that up with them, compression ratio is allowed to vary +- .5 so say you had the absolute highest with the best trans meaning better clearances and slightly higher line pressure shifting faster and harder it will be faster. By no means better base, better parts or better engineering. Haha means better production lol the high side of the distribution curve.
Also the biggest gain from exhaust is cats. I am sorry people have got mad at me before I am not arguing the factory manifolds are decent. The cats are the biggest restriction and muffler change can help too. yes headers will pick up power but without a decent cam and heads not to much. every 3 kpa is roughly a horsepower stock exhausts are usually about 50 kpa back pressure with about 30 coming from the cats which is about an 8-10 hp increase not due to header change which helps the scavenge effects of the intake exhaust cycle which is benefited from larger overlap. but im just a noob
Also the biggest gain from exhaust is cats. I am sorry people have got mad at me before I am not arguing the factory manifolds are decent. The cats are the biggest restriction and muffler change can help too. yes headers will pick up power but without a decent cam and heads not to much. every 3 kpa is roughly a horsepower stock exhausts are usually about 50 kpa back pressure with about 30 coming from the cats which is about an 8-10 hp increase not due to header change which helps the scavenge effects of the intake exhaust cycle which is benefited from larger overlap. but im just a noob
08-16-2009, 11:11 PM
#44
Alright man your right. I didnt just spend like 600 on my cam springs and timing chain and capable of 12's no doubt smoked my friends trans ams bad. And btw the 01-02's were rated at 365 more than the 98 and all gm numbers are sae certified. So i believe they are faster on a production stand point unless the society of automotive engineers is wrong I mean take that up with them, compression ratio is allowed to vary +- .5 so say you had the absolute highest with the best trans meaning better clearances and slightly higher line pressure shifting faster and harder it will be faster. By no means better base, better parts or better engineering. Haha means better production lol the high side of the distribution curve.
a strictly CAM ONLY ls1 on street tires WILL NOT run BOTTOM 12s!
the 01-02s were not rated at 365..
yea.. they are all correct..
ever seen this little article?
you are talking opinions.. not facts.. open your eyes a little.
08-16-2009, 11:30 PM
#45
Ok 345 not 65 sorry. Different than a 305 rating. And one car verse the other stock car doesn't mean anyting. Not every car has a dyno sheet man. These SAE tests are done on the best of the variatiant usually because they have the money to test everything to find the best production motor. IF you tested two 98's i bet you couldn't find one with the same numbers in the next 50 cars. Easy man. I bet there is a 30+ hp variation between factory cars easy.
My friend 00 ta with a tune he did just leaned it up a little and threw some spark at it with a lid. Dyno'd 360 but thats not a common thing factory freak motor.
Not hijacking this thread man sorry. I would lean to an 02 car though or an 01 at least they have better potential and less face it GM isn't lying with the dyno numbers they released what benefit would that be to them. The rears in the ls1's are also more prone to break due to worm gears in the rear if you run it hard the bolts will back out and contact the case not good.
My friend 00 ta with a tune he did just leaned it up a little and threw some spark at it with a lid. Dyno'd 360 but thats not a common thing factory freak motor.
Not hijacking this thread man sorry. I would lean to an 02 car though or an 01 at least they have better potential and less face it GM isn't lying with the dyno numbers they released what benefit would that be to them. The rears in the ls1's are also more prone to break due to worm gears in the rear if you run it hard the bolts will back out and contact the case not good.
08-16-2009, 11:34 PM
#46
Ok 345 not 65 sorry. Different than a 305 rating. And one car verse the other stock car doesn't mean anyting. Not every car has a dyno sheet man. These SAE tests are done on the best of the variatiant usually because they have the money to test everything to find the best production motor. IF you tested two 98's i bet you couldn't find one with the same numbers in the next 50 cars. Easy man. I bet there is a 30+ hp variation between factory cars easy.
My friend 00 ta with a tune he did just leaned it up a little and threw some spark at it with a lid. Dyno'd 360 but thats not a common thing factory freak motor.
Not hijacking this thread man sorry. I would lean to an 02 car though or an 01 at least they have better potential and less face it GM isn't lying with the dyno numbers they released what benefit would that be to them. The rears in the ls1's are also more prone to break due to worm gears in the rear if you run it hard the bolts will back out and contact the case not good.
My friend 00 ta with a tune he did just leaned it up a little and threw some spark at it with a lid. Dyno'd 360 but thats not a common thing factory freak motor.
Not hijacking this thread man sorry. I would lean to an 02 car though or an 01 at least they have better potential and less face it GM isn't lying with the dyno numbers they released what benefit would that be to them. The rears in the ls1's are also more prone to break due to worm gears in the rear if you run it hard the bolts will back out and contact the case not good.
you saw what those two were advertised at and what they dynod.. and the vette has always been ADVERTISED as more than any fbody... AN LS1 IS AN LS1 IS AN LS1!!!
just because it dyno'd that does not mean its a factory freak.. you can make that car dyno over 400rwhp..
DYNO NUMBERS MEAN NOTHING!!!!!!!!
98-02... they are all the same.. all will run within a couple tenths one way or the other.. year/make/model does not matter.. this has been proven OVER AND OVER..
go read up a little, like i said im not talking out my ***!
08-16-2009, 11:50 PM
#47
Ok 345 not 65 sorry. Different than a 305 rating. And one car verse the other stock car doesn't mean anyting. Not every car has a dyno sheet man. These SAE tests are done on the best of the variatiant usually because they have the money to test everything to find the best production motor. IF you tested two 98's i bet you couldn't find one with the same numbers in the next 50 cars. Easy man. I bet there is a 30+ hp variation between factory cars easy.
My friend 00 ta with a tune he did just leaned it up a little and threw some spark at it with a lid. Dyno'd 360 but thats not a common thing factory freak motor.
Not hijacking this thread man sorry. I would lean to an 02 car though or an 01 at least they have better potential and less face it GM isn't lying with the dyno numbers they released what benefit would that be to them. The rears in the ls1's are also more prone to break due to worm gears in the rear if you run it hard the bolts will back out and contact the case not good.
My friend 00 ta with a tune he did just leaned it up a little and threw some spark at it with a lid. Dyno'd 360 but thats not a common thing factory freak motor.
Not hijacking this thread man sorry. I would lean to an 02 car though or an 01 at least they have better potential and less face it GM isn't lying with the dyno numbers they released what benefit would that be to them. The rears in the ls1's are also more prone to break due to worm gears in the rear if you run it hard the bolts will back out and contact the case not good.
You need to research a lot more.
OP: Buy whatever is in your pricerange. If you plan on doing a lot of mods just buy a normal T/A or Z28; you'll save money. Nothing is cheap on these cars, and **** will break so be ready. The only other advise I would say is buy a 99+ just because the 98s have little things that can make repairs/mods a little more difficult. They have a different computer, head bolts, ect. where as the 99-02 seem a little more "controlled" I guess you could say. It might save you a little headache or two.
Last edited by _JB_; 08-16-2009 at 11:57 PM.
08-17-2009, 09:10 AM
#52
You must not be talking out of your mouth because the numbers aren't faked like cobra's hahahahahahahahaha. Go buy some other company man if you are going to talk bad about how numbers are made.
SAE certified means that a member from SAE that is recertified every couple years comes to the dyno cell witnesses a full power curve and signs off on the number. If you look GM is one of the few companies that does this. So you can't really fake those numbers. Like toyota does and so do others. If you noticed within the past decade fuel economy numbers are now EPA certified because of toyota and honda running their mpg estimates on fully undressed motors, running different oil, different gasoline additives and no ac on. EPA now verifies that all accessories are mounted standard oil and gas is used and that the ac is on during certification. That is because companies were known to cheat especially in the 90's with many toyota cars. EPA and SAE are not only government affiliated but are credible engineering sources.
Ya I understand you can fake dyno numbers, i can change inertias, altitude correction and even temp correction for a few things. THe car dyno'd without correction facts and correct inertias at 360 guess its hard to compare without a baseline. Same to say for the two you posted who knows what was done to the dyno results.
Also you all can think whatever you want. I am not doing research. The LS6 intake and 241 heads are better period. I don't care what you think or say. One has egr and was molded similair to injection molding with pressure welding and one was solid core casting. Obviously the solid core casting will have less blemishes because the core can be easily controlled. ITs good for 10 more hp period and will respond better to upgrades if not then why do ppl seek them out and buy them. And why do i have people trying to just buy my ls6 intake off my motor.
There are mechanics and there are those with knowledge behind how things actually work and what things mean. Not just taking one production car compared to another. Also a couple tenths is about all the variation you would get between the different ls1 cars varying by the amount they did and similar drivers. Like I said variation in production.
But I am a noob. Not an engineer working for the car companies, I don't do this for a living with a college education to back me. I guess we should listen to those who post so much because that makes them correct. Its one thing to live in this world and another thing to think you know how it works by observing every day occurences and reading on the internet to expand your "knowledge and credibility", and yet another thing to understand how it works throughout education and observances. What do i know though? Just a bunch of bs by an uneducated mechanical engineering working at a car company.
You guys can debate this I am off to present my cam study finding. Good luck with thinking companies lie over SAE certified tests.
Do you research on production variation and get some material (credible) not car runs to verify what you say and I still won't believe you. Please don't try to tell me you know my job better than me. You might be more knowledgable in some areas but my life revolves around this. And changes aren't simply made for a pat on the back and a thumbs up from across the hall they are all improvements in the design which contribute to a better base but do not take into account variations of production. An LS1 is not an LS1 is not an LS1 if you think so you are very poorly misinformed but good luck.
SAE certified means that a member from SAE that is recertified every couple years comes to the dyno cell witnesses a full power curve and signs off on the number. If you look GM is one of the few companies that does this. So you can't really fake those numbers. Like toyota does and so do others. If you noticed within the past decade fuel economy numbers are now EPA certified because of toyota and honda running their mpg estimates on fully undressed motors, running different oil, different gasoline additives and no ac on. EPA now verifies that all accessories are mounted standard oil and gas is used and that the ac is on during certification. That is because companies were known to cheat especially in the 90's with many toyota cars. EPA and SAE are not only government affiliated but are credible engineering sources.
Ya I understand you can fake dyno numbers, i can change inertias, altitude correction and even temp correction for a few things. THe car dyno'd without correction facts and correct inertias at 360 guess its hard to compare without a baseline. Same to say for the two you posted who knows what was done to the dyno results.
Also you all can think whatever you want. I am not doing research. The LS6 intake and 241 heads are better period. I don't care what you think or say. One has egr and was molded similair to injection molding with pressure welding and one was solid core casting. Obviously the solid core casting will have less blemishes because the core can be easily controlled. ITs good for 10 more hp period and will respond better to upgrades if not then why do ppl seek them out and buy them. And why do i have people trying to just buy my ls6 intake off my motor.
There are mechanics and there are those with knowledge behind how things actually work and what things mean. Not just taking one production car compared to another. Also a couple tenths is about all the variation you would get between the different ls1 cars varying by the amount they did and similar drivers. Like I said variation in production.
But I am a noob. Not an engineer working for the car companies, I don't do this for a living with a college education to back me. I guess we should listen to those who post so much because that makes them correct. Its one thing to live in this world and another thing to think you know how it works by observing every day occurences and reading on the internet to expand your "knowledge and credibility", and yet another thing to understand how it works throughout education and observances. What do i know though? Just a bunch of bs by an uneducated mechanical engineering working at a car company.
You guys can debate this I am off to present my cam study finding. Good luck with thinking companies lie over SAE certified tests.
Do you research on production variation and get some material (credible) not car runs to verify what you say and I still won't believe you. Please don't try to tell me you know my job better than me. You might be more knowledgable in some areas but my life revolves around this. And changes aren't simply made for a pat on the back and a thumbs up from across the hall they are all improvements in the design which contribute to a better base but do not take into account variations of production. An LS1 is not an LS1 is not an LS1 if you think so you are very poorly misinformed but good luck.
Last edited by Radcannon; 08-17-2009 at 09:20 AM.
08-17-2009, 01:55 PM
#53
"Differences between LS1 Years."
1998 F-Body
1. Had different casting heads which had perimeter bolts and valve covers.
2. Ignition coils were mounted to the valve covers one at a time.
3. The water temp gauge actually works.
4. 98's do have an oil life monitor, they just don't tell you anything when its time for a change. You can find it in Auto-Tap
5. WS6s had single outlet exhaust (all others had duals)
6. Steering wheel controls were completely different part with indentations on the buttons, and were better built
7. Only year that Purple, Gold, and Green were available
8. Some very early Trans Ams came with LT1 style headrests
9. Rear hatch release was poorly designed and often caused problems releasing mechanism
10. Early model 98 Monsoon stereos didn't have capability to control 12-disc CD changer
11. 1998-1999 automatic transmission LS1s could be started in 1st gear even with the shifter in 2nd. Starting 2000, if you put the shifter in 2, it would start off in 2, even from a stop.
12. 1998-1999 LS1 cars had a smaller throttle body cam, which caused the throttle to open to WOT (wide open throttle) faster than 2000+ cars
13. 1998 cars had 28 lb fuel injectors from the factory
14. 1998-2000 cars had a larger cam than the 01-02 cars
15. 1998-1999 cars had more restrictive exhaust manifolds
16. 1998-2000 cars had an LS1 intake with EGR
17. 1998 and some early 1999 cars had blue outside rear view mirrors (Trans Am only)
18. 1998 only LS1 blocks had a much smaller cylinder sleeve that only tolerated a .005" hone
19. Last year F-body to use the old 15.5 gallon steel fuel tank.
20. Only year LS1 F-body to contain a gas cap with a tether long enough to actually hang from the fuel door while open
21. Only year LS1 F-body to not contain the famous GM black box used in the event of an accident to record up to 5 seconds of pre-crash data
22. 1998 only cars had a different PCV system with the PCV valve located above the passenger side valve cover
23. 1998 most cars did not have an idle adjustment screw on the throttle body. Some 98 cars do have the idle throttle stop set screws.
24. 1998 cars have a completely different PCM from 99+ cars
25. A production shortage of F-body cams caused the use of a C5 cam to be installed in F-body LS1s for a very short time
26. 97-98 LS1's used a paper water pump gasket. The only gasket that isn't reuseable
27. SSs did not ALL go to SLP starting in 98. Y2Y was the RPO code that sent them to SLP for additional options
28. SS option did not "include" the Synthetic oil package, it was a SLP only Option
1999 F-Body
1. 1999-2000 cars switched to 26 lb fuel injectors
2. Cylinder heads and valve covers redesigned to have center bolts instead of perimeter bolts. Other than that, the heads were the same.
3. Redesigned cylinder sleeves that allowed for a small bore, up from .005" in 1998 models.
4. Midyear model change to a cheaper steering wheel audio control button without finger indentations, and cheaper built
5. 1999 cars continued the LS1 intake with EGR provisions
6. 1999 cars continued more restrictive exhaust manifolds and larger cam
7. Only year that Hugger Orange was available (Camaro only)
8. 30th Anniversary Trans Am available with special blue and white paint package and blue clear coated WS6 wheels
9. Switch to larger 16.8 gallon plastic fuel tank to meet new emissions requirements.
10. Gascap tether was shorter and could no longer be used to hang on the gas door when open.
11. Company wide change added black boxes to record up to 5 seconds of data before a crash
12. Rear hatch release was redesigned with stiffer spring that released the hatch better
13. Water temp gauge was redesigned to work basically as a dummy gauge and only show an overheat condition.
14. An oil life monitor was added to all LS1s, thus changing the gauge cluster a little to show the oil life reset swtich
15. 1999-02 cars had a different PCV system with the valve located to the side of the intake manifold
16. Early production 1999 Trans Ams still had the blue outside mirrors, but a midyear change went to the non-tinted ones
17. 1999 there was the color "Medium Blue Metallic" which was available on both the Camaros and Firebirds. Only one year of that color
2000 F-Body
1. Redesigned exhaust manifolds for new emissions standard actually flowed better and created a little more HP.
2. 2000 continued use of LS1 Intake, EGR, smaller cam, and 26 lb fuel injectors
3. Added rear child seat safety hooks to interior per federal requirements
4. Very early run of WS6s had "salad shooter" style rims. A production change switched back to standard 5-spoke WS6 rims.
5. Camaros got redesigned 10-spoke base rims, and SSs came with new 10-spoke rim design
6. First year of Monterey Maple Metallic paint
7. Charcoal (grayish) interior was replaced with Ebony (almost black) leather interior
8. Cloth interior cars got new rainbow colored cloth patterns
9. Camaros only got the Pontiac steering wheel with optional audio controls
10. Throttle body cam was increased in size to slow the speed at which the car reaches WOT
11. Automatic transmission cars were reprogrammed to allow a car to start off in 2nd gear from a stop when the shift lever is put into 2.
12. The last year a WS6 Formula was offered
13. Starting 2000 intake lids contained a seperate breather filter
14. 2000+ Camaros came with body colored mirrors instead of black ones like 98-99
2001 F-Body
1. A small percentage of 2001 and 2002 LS1s actually had LS6 blocks which had a different part number and a darker metal cast
2. Starting 2001, all LS1s came with an LS6 intake manifold without an EGR system
3. Advertised HP output was changed from 305 to 310 on base LS1s and from 320 to 325 on WS6s and SSs
4. 2001-02 cars have a smaller cam from the Vortec truck engines to increase low end torque
5. 2001-02 cars had 28 lb fuel injectors like the 98 cars (albeit different part numbers)
6. WS6 cars had a redesigned 5 spoke rim which was more wavy
7. WS6 cars got less suspension upgrades from a base Trans Am suspension than previous years
8. Manual transmission cars all came with the Z06 clutch
2002 F-Body
1. 35th Annivesary edition of the Camaro, and Collectors Edition Trans Am available
2. 2002 LS1 head gaskets redesigned. The new ones are a pressed metal, as opposed to the graphite ones and are no longer specific to the side of the car theyre installed on
3. 2002 cars continued with the LS6 intake, 28 lb fuel inectors and smaller truck cam
4. 2002 continued the use of an LS6 block in some LS1 F-bodies
5. A factory supported optional 345 HP option could be ordered from SLP
6. Manual transmission cars continued use of the Z06 clutch
7. Some 2002 model F-bodies came with a revised rear view mirror that had the map light buttons on the bottom, rather than the front.
1. Had different casting heads which had perimeter bolts and valve covers.
2. Ignition coils were mounted to the valve covers one at a time.
3. The water temp gauge actually works.
4. 98's do have an oil life monitor, they just don't tell you anything when its time for a change. You can find it in Auto-Tap
5. WS6s had single outlet exhaust (all others had duals)
6. Steering wheel controls were completely different part with indentations on the buttons, and were better built
7. Only year that Purple, Gold, and Green were available
8. Some very early Trans Ams came with LT1 style headrests
9. Rear hatch release was poorly designed and often caused problems releasing mechanism
10. Early model 98 Monsoon stereos didn't have capability to control 12-disc CD changer
11. 1998-1999 automatic transmission LS1s could be started in 1st gear even with the shifter in 2nd. Starting 2000, if you put the shifter in 2, it would start off in 2, even from a stop.
12. 1998-1999 LS1 cars had a smaller throttle body cam, which caused the throttle to open to WOT (wide open throttle) faster than 2000+ cars
13. 1998 cars had 28 lb fuel injectors from the factory
14. 1998-2000 cars had a larger cam than the 01-02 cars
15. 1998-1999 cars had more restrictive exhaust manifolds
16. 1998-2000 cars had an LS1 intake with EGR
17. 1998 and some early 1999 cars had blue outside rear view mirrors (Trans Am only)
18. 1998 only LS1 blocks had a much smaller cylinder sleeve that only tolerated a .005" hone
19. Last year F-body to use the old 15.5 gallon steel fuel tank.
20. Only year LS1 F-body to contain a gas cap with a tether long enough to actually hang from the fuel door while open
21. Only year LS1 F-body to not contain the famous GM black box used in the event of an accident to record up to 5 seconds of pre-crash data
22. 1998 only cars had a different PCV system with the PCV valve located above the passenger side valve cover
23. 1998 most cars did not have an idle adjustment screw on the throttle body. Some 98 cars do have the idle throttle stop set screws.
24. 1998 cars have a completely different PCM from 99+ cars
25. A production shortage of F-body cams caused the use of a C5 cam to be installed in F-body LS1s for a very short time
26. 97-98 LS1's used a paper water pump gasket. The only gasket that isn't reuseable
27. SSs did not ALL go to SLP starting in 98. Y2Y was the RPO code that sent them to SLP for additional options
28. SS option did not "include" the Synthetic oil package, it was a SLP only Option
1999 F-Body
1. 1999-2000 cars switched to 26 lb fuel injectors
2. Cylinder heads and valve covers redesigned to have center bolts instead of perimeter bolts. Other than that, the heads were the same.
3. Redesigned cylinder sleeves that allowed for a small bore, up from .005" in 1998 models.
4. Midyear model change to a cheaper steering wheel audio control button without finger indentations, and cheaper built
5. 1999 cars continued the LS1 intake with EGR provisions
6. 1999 cars continued more restrictive exhaust manifolds and larger cam
7. Only year that Hugger Orange was available (Camaro only)
8. 30th Anniversary Trans Am available with special blue and white paint package and blue clear coated WS6 wheels
9. Switch to larger 16.8 gallon plastic fuel tank to meet new emissions requirements.
10. Gascap tether was shorter and could no longer be used to hang on the gas door when open.
11. Company wide change added black boxes to record up to 5 seconds of data before a crash
12. Rear hatch release was redesigned with stiffer spring that released the hatch better
13. Water temp gauge was redesigned to work basically as a dummy gauge and only show an overheat condition.
14. An oil life monitor was added to all LS1s, thus changing the gauge cluster a little to show the oil life reset swtich
15. 1999-02 cars had a different PCV system with the valve located to the side of the intake manifold
16. Early production 1999 Trans Ams still had the blue outside mirrors, but a midyear change went to the non-tinted ones
17. 1999 there was the color "Medium Blue Metallic" which was available on both the Camaros and Firebirds. Only one year of that color
2000 F-Body
1. Redesigned exhaust manifolds for new emissions standard actually flowed better and created a little more HP.
2. 2000 continued use of LS1 Intake, EGR, smaller cam, and 26 lb fuel injectors
3. Added rear child seat safety hooks to interior per federal requirements
4. Very early run of WS6s had "salad shooter" style rims. A production change switched back to standard 5-spoke WS6 rims.
5. Camaros got redesigned 10-spoke base rims, and SSs came with new 10-spoke rim design
6. First year of Monterey Maple Metallic paint
7. Charcoal (grayish) interior was replaced with Ebony (almost black) leather interior
8. Cloth interior cars got new rainbow colored cloth patterns
9. Camaros only got the Pontiac steering wheel with optional audio controls
10. Throttle body cam was increased in size to slow the speed at which the car reaches WOT
11. Automatic transmission cars were reprogrammed to allow a car to start off in 2nd gear from a stop when the shift lever is put into 2.
12. The last year a WS6 Formula was offered
13. Starting 2000 intake lids contained a seperate breather filter
14. 2000+ Camaros came with body colored mirrors instead of black ones like 98-99
2001 F-Body
1. A small percentage of 2001 and 2002 LS1s actually had LS6 blocks which had a different part number and a darker metal cast
2. Starting 2001, all LS1s came with an LS6 intake manifold without an EGR system
3. Advertised HP output was changed from 305 to 310 on base LS1s and from 320 to 325 on WS6s and SSs
4. 2001-02 cars have a smaller cam from the Vortec truck engines to increase low end torque
5. 2001-02 cars had 28 lb fuel injectors like the 98 cars (albeit different part numbers)
6. WS6 cars had a redesigned 5 spoke rim which was more wavy
7. WS6 cars got less suspension upgrades from a base Trans Am suspension than previous years
8. Manual transmission cars all came with the Z06 clutch
2002 F-Body
1. 35th Annivesary edition of the Camaro, and Collectors Edition Trans Am available
2. 2002 LS1 head gaskets redesigned. The new ones are a pressed metal, as opposed to the graphite ones and are no longer specific to the side of the car theyre installed on
3. 2002 cars continued with the LS6 intake, 28 lb fuel inectors and smaller truck cam
4. 2002 continued the use of an LS6 block in some LS1 F-bodies
5. A factory supported optional 345 HP option could be ordered from SLP
6. Manual transmission cars continued use of the Z06 clutch
7. Some 2002 model F-bodies came with a revised rear view mirror that had the map light buttons on the bottom, rather than the front.
08-17-2009, 04:30 PM
#54
You must not be talking out of your mouth because the numbers aren't faked like cobra's hahahahahahahahaha. Go buy some other company man if you are going to talk bad about how numbers are made.
SAE certified means that a member from SAE that is recertified every couple years comes to the dyno cell witnesses a full power curve and signs off on the number. If you look GM is one of the few companies that does this. So you can't really fake those numbers. Like toyota does and so do others. If you noticed within the past decade fuel economy numbers are now EPA certified because of toyota and honda running their mpg estimates on fully undressed motors, running different oil, different gasoline additives and no ac on. EPA now verifies that all accessories are mounted standard oil and gas is used and that the ac is on during certification. That is because companies were known to cheat especially in the 90's with many toyota cars. EPA and SAE are not only government affiliated but are credible engineering sources.
Ya I understand you can fake dyno numbers, i can change inertias, altitude correction and even temp correction for a few things. THe car dyno'd without correction facts and correct inertias at 360 guess its hard to compare without a baseline. Same to say for the two you posted who knows what was done to the dyno results.
Also you all can think whatever you want. I am not doing research. The LS6 intake and 241 heads are better period. I don't care what you think or say. One has egr and was molded similair to injection molding with pressure welding and one was solid core casting. Obviously the solid core casting will have less blemishes because the core can be easily controlled. ITs good for 10 more hp period and will respond better to upgrades if not then why do ppl seek them out and buy them. And why do i have people trying to just buy my ls6 intake off my motor.
There are mechanics and there are those with knowledge behind how things actually work and what things mean. Not just taking one production car compared to another. Also a couple tenths is about all the variation you would get between the different ls1 cars varying by the amount they did and similar drivers. Like I said variation in production.
But I am a noob. Not an engineer working for the car companies, I don't do this for a living with a college education to back me. I guess we should listen to those who post so much because that makes them correct. Its one thing to live in this world and another thing to think you know how it works by observing every day occurences and reading on the internet to expand your "knowledge and credibility", and yet another thing to understand how it works throughout education and observances. What do i know though? Just a bunch of bs by an uneducated mechanical engineering working at a car company.
You guys can debate this I am off to present my cam study finding. Good luck with thinking companies lie over SAE certified tests.
Do you research on production variation and get some material (credible) not car runs to verify what you say and I still won't believe you. Please don't try to tell me you know my job better than me. You might be more knowledgable in some areas but my life revolves around this. And changes aren't simply made for a pat on the back and a thumbs up from across the hall they are all improvements in the design which contribute to a better base but do not take into account variations of production. An LS1 is not an LS1 is not an LS1 if you think so you are very poorly misinformed but good luck.
SAE certified means that a member from SAE that is recertified every couple years comes to the dyno cell witnesses a full power curve and signs off on the number. If you look GM is one of the few companies that does this. So you can't really fake those numbers. Like toyota does and so do others. If you noticed within the past decade fuel economy numbers are now EPA certified because of toyota and honda running their mpg estimates on fully undressed motors, running different oil, different gasoline additives and no ac on. EPA now verifies that all accessories are mounted standard oil and gas is used and that the ac is on during certification. That is because companies were known to cheat especially in the 90's with many toyota cars. EPA and SAE are not only government affiliated but are credible engineering sources.
Ya I understand you can fake dyno numbers, i can change inertias, altitude correction and even temp correction for a few things. THe car dyno'd without correction facts and correct inertias at 360 guess its hard to compare without a baseline. Same to say for the two you posted who knows what was done to the dyno results.
Also you all can think whatever you want. I am not doing research. The LS6 intake and 241 heads are better period. I don't care what you think or say. One has egr and was molded similair to injection molding with pressure welding and one was solid core casting. Obviously the solid core casting will have less blemishes because the core can be easily controlled. ITs good for 10 more hp period and will respond better to upgrades if not then why do ppl seek them out and buy them. And why do i have people trying to just buy my ls6 intake off my motor.
There are mechanics and there are those with knowledge behind how things actually work and what things mean. Not just taking one production car compared to another. Also a couple tenths is about all the variation you would get between the different ls1 cars varying by the amount they did and similar drivers. Like I said variation in production.
But I am a noob. Not an engineer working for the car companies, I don't do this for a living with a college education to back me. I guess we should listen to those who post so much because that makes them correct. Its one thing to live in this world and another thing to think you know how it works by observing every day occurences and reading on the internet to expand your "knowledge and credibility", and yet another thing to understand how it works throughout education and observances. What do i know though? Just a bunch of bs by an uneducated mechanical engineering working at a car company.
You guys can debate this I am off to present my cam study finding. Good luck with thinking companies lie over SAE certified tests.
Do you research on production variation and get some material (credible) not car runs to verify what you say and I still won't believe you. Please don't try to tell me you know my job better than me. You might be more knowledgable in some areas but my life revolves around this. And changes aren't simply made for a pat on the back and a thumbs up from across the hall they are all improvements in the design which contribute to a better base but do not take into account variations of production. An LS1 is not an LS1 is not an LS1 if you think so you are very poorly misinformed but good luck.
AHHHH, hells.. work for a car company.. that explains EVERYTHING!!!!
i have made my points and also backed them up.. as well as other people backing my "BS" up..
hell, even Jon is on my side!!!
have fun spreading misguided "knowledge"...
08-17-2009, 05:54 PM
#55
His posts are always entertaining to say that least. I hope he continues to post more and more frequently. His knowledge is priceless and the way he dismiss everyone else (regardless of their experience) is something of shear genius.
Radcannon you are my hero. Also, to settle something between Lemons and I, I would love to hear your take on gears and headers on stock/bolt-on cars.
08-17-2009, 06:07 PM
#57
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this thread has been completly blown out of proportion. like others have said, get whichever one u think looks the best. if i was gonn aget a T/A i would go for ws6. and i have an ss cause its the top of the line model for camaros. the price differences are not very big between an ss and a z28. the only thing i would recomend is getting an m-6, since it will be a street car. u will probly kick ure self in the *** for buying an automatic muscle car.
08-17-2009, 06:12 PM
#58
I became a fan of Radcannons after reading this thread: https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagn...-my-tuner.html
His posts are always entertaining to say that least. I hope he continues to post more and more frequently. His knowledge is priceless and the way he dismiss everyone else (regardless of their experience) is something of shear genius.
Radcannon you are my hero. Also, to settle something between Lemons and I, I would love to hear your take on gears and headers on stock/bolt-on cars.
His posts are always entertaining to say that least. I hope he continues to post more and more frequently. His knowledge is priceless and the way he dismiss everyone else (regardless of their experience) is something of shear genius.
Radcannon you are my hero. Also, to settle something between Lemons and I, I would love to hear your take on gears and headers on stock/bolt-on cars.
not to mention all the GARBAGE that was posted in them.. he got OWNED!
i wouldnt have even started with him if i would have known all his posts were that outlandish.. i thought for a second he had a slight bit of knowledge... that came to an abrupt halt..
damn jon, maybe you arent so bad.. this could be fun!
SO, Redcannon...... tell us what your thoughts are on manifolds/headers and gears on a stock block bolt on (intake, lid, internally stock) ls1s..
08-17-2009, 06:13 PM
#59
this thread has been completly blown out of proportion. like others have said, get whichever one u think looks the best. if i was gonn aget a T/A i would go for ws6. and i have an ss cause its the top of the line model for camaros. the price differences are not very big between an ss and a z28. the only thing i would recomend is getting an m-6, since it will be a street car. u will probly kick ure self in the *** for buying an automatic muscle car.
08-17-2009, 06:32 PM
#60
Hey I'm Travis.
Im kind of new to ls1tech so ill start my first thread in here.
I plan on getting a car equipped with an ls1. But i cant decide between a Trans-Am or a Z28 (maybe an SS if i have the money.)
My plans for the car will be a 80% Street/20% Strip car. It will be daily driven no matter what as it will be my only/first car.
My goals would be able to run mid-low 12's on DR's. Shouldn't be to hard, its an ls1.
My main questions were wether the Trans-Am or Camaro had any advantages at the strip over eachother.
Also I was leaning toward an A4 for the tranny, but since the car will see mostly street time I thought an M6 would be more fun on the street.
Also If you would mind sharing your suggestions for the first few mods that would be appreciated.
Im kind of new to ls1tech so ill start my first thread in here.
I plan on getting a car equipped with an ls1. But i cant decide between a Trans-Am or a Z28 (maybe an SS if i have the money.)
My plans for the car will be a 80% Street/20% Strip car. It will be daily driven no matter what as it will be my only/first car.
My goals would be able to run mid-low 12's on DR's. Shouldn't be to hard, its an ls1.
My main questions were wether the Trans-Am or Camaro had any advantages at the strip over eachother.
Also I was leaning toward an A4 for the tranny, but since the car will see mostly street time I thought an M6 would be more fun on the street.
Also If you would mind sharing your suggestions for the first few mods that would be appreciated.
Having both, I'll say that the A4 is the way to go. Some say the M6s are more fun to drive and I see that to an extent. I think I have more fun outrunning M6s though.
Assuming you get an A4, stall should be the first mod. Lid, exhuast, etc... are good mods but offer no where near the gains of a stall. And stalls improve the fun factor of and A4 250%. Stall speed of 3000-3600 make for great driving cars that still kick ***. With a stall and DRs and nothing else, you should be mid high 12s (depending on weather and DA).
My car was in the 11s with just a stall and a few other bolt ons. Though, mine may be more than what you're looking for out of a good DD. Research goes a long way in deciding what's best for your car and your needs.
Second mod should be a good nitrous kit. A 150 shot and a stall should have you somewhere in the 11s. Also a little research goes a long way here too.
Then maybe a lid and a good exhaust system.