A total loss after all, thanks ARE
11-02-2005, 06:33 PM
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A total loss after all, thanks ARE As people have been following my 2 year many thousand dollar loss with ARE (the crooks of the west end) I have been updating regularly on the findings as they become evident.
nosguy has done an excellent job of trying to save me money and effort in the hopes that something was indeed done right. Today was the final knife in the proverbial back.
It was decided that to try to save time, effort and some money to fire up the car with the existing ARE engine in it. I was uncomfortable with the decision however, why not, I was game just to get her running. nosguy suggested we leak it down cylinder by cylinder and if everything was fine we'd go for it and if not we'd move on from there.
Upon removing the valve cover it was quickly learned that things weren't as they were supposed to be. My titanium retainers and locks had been replaced by heavier stainless parts, probably for another customers car. The heavier parts will cause excessive loading on the valve train. The springs seemed OK so the leakdown test was performed.
On a never run motor 5-8% is reasonable as the rings have not been sealed. Surprise, surprise please note the results
#1 38%
#3 41%
#5 40%
#7 40%
#2 45%
#4 80% ( TAP ON THE TOP OF VALVE AND GET 45%)
#6 42%
#8 40%
As you can see the results are horrible, and the motor must now come out to investigate the problem. I'm pretty sure I'm going to find a host of substandard used parts. To be safe I now have to measure each cylinder wall, re balance the whole rotating to be sure, and of course put in new rings. While we are at it the heads must be disassembled and checked the valves are tight and appear misaligned, I'm sure there is a valve job or many that must be fixed. My valves are supposed to be extreme duty, but there is no way to tell while the car is still together.
If I had tried to fire up an FI car under these conditions I would have quickly destroyed the engine, probably burnt the oil and smoked the rings and bearings in very short order. ARE at this junction would have blamed nosguy, I guess we figured it out first.
When the motor comes apart I will compare peice by piece to what I supposed to have, any beting man would love those odds that they are not.
First off Dave DiLuca did not build this motor, I know who the two people at ARE who did, so no complaints or band wagoning about Sled28 please.
I would love to hear what the ARE spokemen have to say now about this. I have lost parts, had to redesign my turbo system and now to add insult to injury I've lost my motor This just gets better and better every day.
ARE you fucked me royally, I hope you truly enjoy the money I gave you for nothing in return.
On a brighter note nosguy and his company feel very badly about all of this and have made the effort to help out where possible. I guess I'm now back to square one.
I will continue to post up the findings as they appear. I truly hope you guys that got good service and parts because ARE is temporarily trying to make itself look good again remember the cost that many of us paid in theft of parts, money and broken cars.
Once again ARE thanks
nosguy has done an excellent job of trying to save me money and effort in the hopes that something was indeed done right. Today was the final knife in the proverbial back.
It was decided that to try to save time, effort and some money to fire up the car with the existing ARE engine in it. I was uncomfortable with the decision however, why not, I was game just to get her running. nosguy suggested we leak it down cylinder by cylinder and if everything was fine we'd go for it and if not we'd move on from there.
Upon removing the valve cover it was quickly learned that things weren't as they were supposed to be. My titanium retainers and locks had been replaced by heavier stainless parts, probably for another customers car. The heavier parts will cause excessive loading on the valve train. The springs seemed OK so the leakdown test was performed.
On a never run motor 5-8% is reasonable as the rings have not been sealed. Surprise, surprise please note the results
#1 38%
#3 41%
#5 40%
#7 40%
#2 45%
#4 80% ( TAP ON THE TOP OF VALVE AND GET 45%)
#6 42%
#8 40%
As you can see the results are horrible, and the motor must now come out to investigate the problem. I'm pretty sure I'm going to find a host of substandard used parts. To be safe I now have to measure each cylinder wall, re balance the whole rotating to be sure, and of course put in new rings. While we are at it the heads must be disassembled and checked the valves are tight and appear misaligned, I'm sure there is a valve job or many that must be fixed. My valves are supposed to be extreme duty, but there is no way to tell while the car is still together.
If I had tried to fire up an FI car under these conditions I would have quickly destroyed the engine, probably burnt the oil and smoked the rings and bearings in very short order. ARE at this junction would have blamed nosguy, I guess we figured it out first.
When the motor comes apart I will compare peice by piece to what I supposed to have, any beting man would love those odds that they are not.
First off Dave DiLuca did not build this motor, I know who the two people at ARE who did, so no complaints or band wagoning about Sled28 please.
I would love to hear what the ARE spokemen have to say now about this. I have lost parts, had to redesign my turbo system and now to add insult to injury I've lost my motor
This just gets better and better every day.ARE you fucked me royally, I hope you truly enjoy the money I gave you for nothing in return.
On a brighter note nosguy and his company feel very badly about all of this and have made the effort to help out where possible. I guess I'm now back to square one.
I will continue to post up the findings as they appear. I truly hope you guys that got good service and parts because ARE is temporarily trying to make itself look good again remember the cost that many of us paid in theft of parts, money and broken cars.
Once again ARE thanks
11-03-2005, 10:33 AM
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Paul, I'm sorry that you got jerked around for so long.
Although, I will say the same thing to you that I did to Dave DiLuca when he posted about ARE/Autoworx turning things around and hyped it up so much...I hope that the positive press that you gave them did not cause other people to lose $$$, time, parts, or sleep with the disaster that is ARE/Autoworx.
It suprises me that anyone would still do business with a company like that, it should be clear at this point that no matter who is in charge over there...it just doesn't matter. The people over there are liars and cheats, plain and simple.
Although, I will say the same thing to you that I did to Dave DiLuca when he posted about ARE/Autoworx turning things around and hyped it up so much...I hope that the positive press that you gave them did not cause other people to lose $$$, time, parts, or sleep with the disaster that is ARE/Autoworx.
It suprises me that anyone would still do business with a company like that, it should be clear at this point that no matter who is in charge over there...it just doesn't matter. The people over there are liars and cheats, plain and simple.
11-03-2005, 11:07 AM
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Scott,
I am painfully aware that some of my actions and support for ARE probably did indeed cause suffering for others, for that I am very sorry. Pointing that out as you did should serve as a warning to others as well "If something appears to be to good to be true, it usually is".
At this point I really want the message to be clear to run away from any involvement with these guys. In our community ARE, APE, Rob Raymer et all will always rear their ugly heads if we don't treat all business' with a certain degree of caution when dealing with them. I will always ask for things in writing and pay after the work is done from now on. If a business can't support an order without my the customer paying up front I have serious reservations about dealing with them. I have no issue with a token deposit on an item to protect the vendor, however I will not pay up front for anything again. I now believe that as a community it is in all of our best interests to stop allowing sponsors on many sites to hide behind what I am now calling "The Sponsorship Protection Act". Pay your money and nobody can touch you is a bad policy.
I am painfully aware that some of my actions and support for ARE probably did indeed cause suffering for others, for that I am very sorry. Pointing that out as you did should serve as a warning to others as well "If something appears to be to good to be true, it usually is".
At this point I really want the message to be clear to run away from any involvement with these guys. In our community ARE, APE, Rob Raymer et all will always rear their ugly heads if we don't treat all business' with a certain degree of caution when dealing with them. I will always ask for things in writing and pay after the work is done from now on. If a business can't support an order without my the customer paying up front I have serious reservations about dealing with them. I have no issue with a token deposit on an item to protect the vendor, however I will not pay up front for anything again. I now believe that as a community it is in all of our best interests to stop allowing sponsors on many sites to hide behind what I am now calling "The Sponsorship Protection Act". Pay your money and nobody can touch you is a bad policy.
11-03-2005, 11:14 AM
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Hi Paul,
I've lost track of your progress, or the lack thereof.
Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on.
I had an ARE 422ci iron block and went 11.0@123 with it back in 2001, but I had problems with the crank and the motor had to come out. I personally there was a lack of quality control there for a long time and the result is inconsistent workmanship.
I've lost track of your progress, or the lack thereof.
Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on.
I had an ARE 422ci iron block and went 11.0@123 with it back in 2001, but I had problems with the crank and the motor had to come out. I personally there was a lack of quality control there for a long time and the result is inconsistent workmanship.
11-03-2005, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Phate
John,
It is more then just a lack of quality control and inconsistent workmanship...it is outright lying and stealing from customers.
It is more then just a lack of quality control and inconsistent workmanship...it is outright lying and stealing from customers.
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11-05-2005, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by eboggs_jkvl
Sorry for your loss Paul. The more you find wrong the uglier this gets.
Elmer
Elmer
Probably have more updates next week. I have recieved some great messages from people and great sponsors that are apalled by this whole situation. I've even had some offers of help. I just hope that enough people get the message to stay well clear of these guys, maybe a bad supplier/ex-sponsor with names listing would help.
I hope you get your situation sorted out soon, you're in a pretty ugly boat with ARE as well. Unfortunately I can easily name another 20 or so people in similar situations.
11-07-2005, 10:13 PM
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Sounds like ARE wasn't the great place you always made them out to be. I for one remember you defending them over and over again, and blaming other companies for what are now obviously ARE's mistakes. Sounds like ARE owes you an aoplogy (and a refund!). But it also sounds like you may owe a few other companies apologies as well.
My $.02.
My $.02.
11-07-2005, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dcdime
I am stupid, but for future reference (so i dont shop there)... what does ARE stand for? are thy still a sponsor?
No relation to Nick D'Agostino, formerly of Automotive Performance Engineering (APE), now of Victory Racing.
They were removed some time back in March 2004: https://ls1tech.com/forums/ls1tech-sponsor-feedback/152111-statement.html ( https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....7&postcount=56 )
11-08-2005, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Warbird
Thanks Elmer,
Probably have more updates next week. I have recieved some great messages from people and great sponsors that are apalled by this whole situation. I've even had some offers of help. I just hope that enough people get the message to stay well clear of these guys, maybe a bad supplier/ex-sponsor with names listing would help.
I hope you get your situation sorted out soon, you're in a pretty ugly boat with ARE as well. Unfortunately I can easily name another 20 or so people in similar situations.
Probably have more updates next week. I have recieved some great messages from people and great sponsors that are apalled by this whole situation. I've even had some offers of help. I just hope that enough people get the message to stay well clear of these guys, maybe a bad supplier/ex-sponsor with names listing would help.
I hope you get your situation sorted out soon, you're in a pretty ugly boat with ARE as well. Unfortunately I can easily name another 20 or so people in similar situations.
It looks like I came out the best of the screwed over bunch,I wonder why I got squared away(almost) and they stuck it to a local guy that's known Nick for years.
I don't think anyone that's reads this board on a regular basis would be crazy enough to send those guys a nickel.
11-11-2005, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by NaughtyGirlTA
Sounds like ARE wasn't the great place you always made them out to be. I for one remember you defending them over and over again, and blaming other companies for what are now obviously ARE's mistakes. Sounds like ARE owes you an aoplogy (and a refund!). But it also sounds like you may owe a few other companies apologies as well.
My $.02.
My $.02.
Feel free to twist the knife, I'm a big boy, but at least be decent enough to be accurate and clear when you make those kind of blanket statements.
11-11-2005, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Roofer Dave
I'm not suprised one bit.Remember our conversation last year when I told you to pull your car and parts out of their shop.Looks like you ended up wasting more money and another year of your life with the same result.
It looks like I came out the best of the screwed over bunch,I wonder why I got squared away(almost) and they stuck it to a local guy that's known Nick for years.
I don't think anyone that's reads this board on a regular basis would be crazy enough to send those guys a nickel.
It looks like I came out the best of the screwed over bunch,I wonder why I got squared away(almost) and they stuck it to a local guy that's known Nick for years.
I don't think anyone that's reads this board on a regular basis would be crazy enough to send those guys a nickel.
I know why you got sorted out and I'm glad you did, however, Nick always robs Peter to pay Paul and someone else paid the price, not Nick. You got squared away because you were vocal and high profile about it, ARE wanted to come back as a sponsor at some point and figured doing the absolute minimum for you would solve the problem. You were in fact a fairly cheap problem to fix, grab a motor from another customer, pull together some parts laying around (and they did) spend a few bucks on labor and hope the problem goes away. For a shop that's cheap and easy, after the fact find another customer to string along.
I'm not so sure you did get totally squared away as evidenced by your post on the motor you eventually got back. Outside of the dyno, you've spent extra hard cash to make it work correctly.
That's my $0.02 Dave. I hope everyone reading this board will deal with a sponsor that has a solid rep, as it turns out the cheapest price is very rarely the best route.
11-12-2005, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Warbird
In 20/20 hindsight I should have listened back then. I knew your situation well Dave and chose to continue.
I know why you got sorted out and I'm glad you did, however, Nick always robs Peter to pay Paul and someone else paid the price, not Nick. You got squared away because you were vocal and high profile about it, ARE wanted to come back as a sponsor at some point and figured doing the absolute minimum for you would solve the problem. You were in fact a fairly cheap problem to fix, grab a motor from another customer, pull together some parts laying around (and they did) spend a few bucks on labor and hope the problem goes away. For a shop that's cheap and easy, after the fact find another customer to string along.
I'm not so sure you did get totally squared away as evidenced by your post on the motor you eventually got back. Outside of the dyno, you've spent extra hard cash to make it work correctly.
That's my $0.02 Dave. I hope everyone reading this board will deal with a sponsor that has a solid rep, as it turns out the cheapest price is very rarely the best route.
I know why you got sorted out and I'm glad you did, however, Nick always robs Peter to pay Paul and someone else paid the price, not Nick. You got squared away because you were vocal and high profile about it, ARE wanted to come back as a sponsor at some point and figured doing the absolute minimum for you would solve the problem. You were in fact a fairly cheap problem to fix, grab a motor from another customer, pull together some parts laying around (and they did) spend a few bucks on labor and hope the problem goes away. For a shop that's cheap and easy, after the fact find another customer to string along.
I'm not so sure you did get totally squared away as evidenced by your post on the motor you eventually got back. Outside of the dyno, you've spent extra hard cash to make it work correctly.
That's my $0.02 Dave. I hope everyone reading this board will deal with a sponsor that has a solid rep, as it turns out the cheapest price is very rarely the best route.
As far as my 427 goes,they did use a cheap head gasket but in all fairness to them the gaskets never leaked(1200 miles) till the car was sprayed and it's making killer power now(suprising).The 1.8 rockers they put on the engine will be sold so I'm out very little on this deal.
My engine might have been easy to put together and get out the door but the $20,000 that Nick sent me in the Spring,early Summer was really nice.
Good luck with everything Paul,hopefully you get what you wanted this time.
11-12-2005, 09:26 AM
#19
Truly sad! I hate to hear stories like this. The Co that built my motor www.revxtreme.com has gone above and beyond in making sure my car runs right. I had heard stories about ARE a few years back and it seems to still ring true!
11-12-2005, 09:40 AM
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are they a well known company? i would personally go around and post up links about these guys...get the word out as heavily as possible. local boards, other fbody boards, you name it, you post it. just keep to the facts though, dont want you to get in trouble for liabel or slander.