First,
Trevor @ Texas Speed for royally reaming me as a customer, and costing me $5,000 and two years in downtime. I asked for a shortblock with thermal coated pistons stronger than 2618 alloy Diamond Forged, and he sold me a shortblock with weak, brittle 4030 alloy phosphate coated Mahle pistons. I tried to resolve this with the vendor, but he went out of his way to attempt to prove he wasn't to blame, and wasted four months of my time before announcing he wasn't to blame. Now that I'm finally recovering from that fiasco two years ago and am again rebuilding my motor, I submitted a well-deserved negative selling trader rating for him. I'm still extremely ticked off at the bad customer experience I had, and the loss of time and money.

Me - Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 1:38 AM
Subject: Forged LS1/LS2/LS6 shortblock
"I’m looking for a forged shortblock with coated forged pistons for a blower application."

Me - Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:11 AM
Subject: Forged 347 with Mahle 'turbo' pistons
"I'd like the upgraded pistons....Would the price be $2,699 for the 347 forged plus $200 for the Mahle dished piston upgrade?"

Me - Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: Forged 347 with Mahle 'turbo' pistons
"Quick question, are the coated Mahle pistons only side skirt coating? I'd like the tops thermal coated if possible. "

"Trevor @ Texas Speed & Performance" <trevor@texas-speed.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:57:34 AM
Re: Forged 347 with Mahle 'turbo' pistons
"The Mahle pistons have coating both on the skirts and tops."

Me - Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 8:49 PM
Subject: Problem with the motor
"I drove it home Sunday without the blower pipes connected. Today I drove it home from turbohoses with the hoses hooked up, it ran fine when I left there, but 30 miles into the 35 mile trip home, the motor started vibrating and running rough. It’s popping out the exhaust and misfiring. I hate to ask this but just in case, Trevor, what’s the warranty on your motors?"

"John.Goodwin@us.mahle.com" <John.Goodwin@us.mahle.com>
Tuesday, March 14, 2006 5:23:59 AM
Re: Pistons for High boost LS6 motor
"I would like to say that our piston coatings are not thermal barrier coatings . This is a widely held msiconception . The skirt coating is for anti scuff and anti friction properties . The lighter grey color that is on most of the rest of the piston is phosphate , a dry film lubricant . This is applied as a dip / bath process that does coat most of the piston . Our basic reason for applying the phosphate is for lubrication in the ring grooves and wrist pin bores . "

Best Regards,
John Goodwin

MAHLE Motorsports,Inc.,Sales,John Goodwin
270 Rutledge Road Unit B , Fletcher ,N.C. 28732 Telephone (888)255-1942 Fax (828)650-0819
john.goodwin@us.Mahle.com Web : us.mahle.com

Now I'm even more pissed, and I want to escalate this to next steps...BBB...etc.

 

WTF do the moderators have to do with this? You pop this now and its after hours to contact Texas Speed to enquire about this two year old situation. I will contact them as soon as possible to find out the two year history on this, if negative feedback is not warranted then it will be deleted.

 

Quit bitching! Thermal coating won't fix a lean issue. Sounds like you ran into some serious detonation!

Now, before you continue, post up the datalogging you took during this issue, as well as the full tune, and let us know the fuel system you were running on this built, turbo setup. But, I don't think we'll ever see any of that....

Sounds like you're butthurt over a bunk combo.

 

After talking to TSP, negative feedback stays until you remove the one you left for them. The thread you started clearly shows what happened - it wasn't their fault.
Trevor has documented this since day one, you all were done with dealings two years ago so there is nothing to address now.

 

It's amazing how many times you'll look to blame anyone but yourself for your own mistakes. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You blew up your first short-block, so you order a second one from us. We build you a short-block that will work just fine for your needs, and you fail to retune your setup. I sell you a SHORT-BLOCK that does not come with a warranty, and this is why. I cannot control a customer's lack of experience for installation or tuning. You detonated the second engine, plain and simple. I have a customer making 700 RWHP through a Powerglide on 28" slicks with off-the-shelf Mahle pistons in his 408 cid turbo car. It has plenty of fuel, and the tune is dead-on. I have another customer making 1,060 RWHP on a Mustang dyno in his C5 twin turbo car with an off-the-shelf Diamond Racing piston set. It doesn't have any fancy coatings, lowered ring lands, etc. Guess what? It also has plenty of fuel and proper tuning. You point the blame the first time talking about quench deck after you read an article in a magazine. Now you're blaming me because the coating was incorrect. Would you now like to blame me because now you think you built the wrong size engine? We specifically discussed how the off-the-shelf pistons from Mahle and Diamond are both only rated for up to 15 psi of boost. You told me that's not a problem because you would back down the boost to accomodate what the engine can hold. This has NEVER been an issue for a customer that has a proper fuel system and tune. I could have built you a custom piston set rated for 30+ psi of boost, but any part will fail with the conditions you put the short-block through. You now come forward nearly TWO YEARS after this entire incident and decide Texas Speed & Performance is easiest to blame because we built the short-block. That's no different from customers thinking a custom tune will fix their wiring problems. You can blame everyone but yourself, but the reality is you will get the same result when you never change any other conditions.

I would suggest you address the fuel system and tune next time around before you want to blame everyone but yourself. Thanks for your tactful post.

Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance

 

It's amazing how I was without a motor from November until March while you looked for ways to avoid the blame of specifying the wrong part for the application. I offered to save us both time and (shortblock freight) money by settling on a discount on a different set of pistons.

The previous motor lived for 25,000 miles. I was not going to throw the new motor on a dyno for a tune without being easy on it for 200 break-in miles.

To you guys this issue is 2years old, to me this stares me in the face right now, today, and every time I walked past the driveway for the last two years. The pile of broken parts were shipped back to me only last April.

You misrepresented Mahle as a stronger piston than Diamond, and you misrepresented Mahle as having Thermal coating. I asked for stronger, more durable pistons than the Diamond forged I previously had and I asked for thermal coating. Brittle Mahle 4032 silicon/alloy pistons are in no way stronger or more durable than Diamond 2618 pistons, so I was misled. I asked if the 'upgraded' Mahle pistons were thermal coated, and you misled me to believe that they were. I got an email directly from Mahle stating their pistons are not Thermal coated. Had the shortblock contained the type of pistons I asked for, the motor would have lived until it was time to tune it. All street motors go though issues with heat, fuel, and tuning issues, but they're supposed to be overbuilt to survive those times.

Besides the piston issue I had to buy a new head stud kit, I mentioned I wanted reuse the ARP set that came off my 2003 block. It wasn't until the motor was in the car that I discovered I had to spend another few hundred for a new set of ARP studs.

Why do you think that as time passing makes unresolved issues blow over? It doesn't for the twin towers site, it doesn't when looking at Katrina damaged neigborhoods, it doesn't when a judge is presiding over a case, and for me it doesn't when I look at this $5,000 disaster sitting in my driveway.

__________________

I'm ticked off at -a- moderator who removed my signature. That moderator is makes the rest look bad.

 

Sounds pretty clear cut to me - no warranty - no reason for this thread.

When you buy a shortblock - you get a part, not a solution. That is what crate motors are for.

I ran a TSP motor in my car for almost 9 months before I sold the car(motor is still in the car and going strong AFAIK), beating the **** out of it on the highway and every empty backroad I could find, and it never even blinked. Sorry you had a bad experience, but I think you're just trying to get something for nothing.

TSP is in no way responsible for what you do with the motor once you install it - at all - just like Kooks isn't responsible for burnt O2 wires if you install their headers.

 

Sorry, but in my mind if something is represented as what I asked for and it's not, then warranty doesn't even come into the picture.

My mistake was I took a mailorder vendor at their word, and it cost me dearly. Just ignore the email asking about warranty, and the parts were misrepresented. All of us customers expect vendors to be experts. If our experience shows us they're not, we feel deceived, and if it costs us money, we permanently remember that.

 

How would the coatings have any effect if the car is improperly tuned? You could have them IONBOND coated and your motor could still **** out on you.

 

Not just the coatings, the piston material was brittle. Coatings keep the piston from melting, the Mahles were represented as stronger than Diamon Forged, where in fact they were more brittle 4032 alloy used as OEM replacement, instead of standard 2618 alloy which is more durable. I asked for stronger pistons than the Diamond forged pistons (which Trevor claimed they were), in addition to that, I asked for thermal coating (which Trevor claimed they were).

So, who removed my signature?

 

I don't happen to know who wiped out your signature.

I'm still trying to figure out how pistons fix detonation.

 

Remember when I tried to sell you the Diamond -8.6cc dished piston set? You told me that you did not want to run another Diamond Racing piston since they "failed" in your other engine. We also talked about an upgraded boost-specific custom Mahle piston set, but you did not want to pay for that either. We have boosted multiple sets of the Mahle "brittle" pistons without one problem. We made 994 RWHP with Mahle's "brittle" pistons in our '05 C6 twin turbo 404 cid LS2. We sold the car nearly a year ago, and the new owner is still have a blast with it. The car makes 700 RWHP on the lowest boost setting.

Every time you make a post it's just another excuse as to how you were misled, deceived, etc. You do not want to pay for your mistake again, so you are going to make an attempt at getting something for free. I can make all of the recommendations in the world, but I cannot make a customer pay for better parts. Again, it would not have mattered with the environment that the engine was run. Your short-block was built using a NEW LS6 engine block. Since it was manufactured after the change to the updated head bolt design, you had to use all of the short head bolts/studs. I sold you the ARP head stud kit at a discount. Maybe they were defective, too.

There is nothing left to say. I'm sorry that you feel your short-block failure is someone else's fault other than your own. I'm also sorry that you feel it is comparable to the 9-11 or Katrina disaster. I'm sure the families that lost loved ones would disagree. If you feel the need to press the matter further, feel free to pick up the phone and give me a call.

Trevor
Texas Speed & Performance

 

He should have used flex fuel. Here is an excerpt of a report on it.


Wow... I didn't know anyone had really kept up with my studies on FFE
(Flex Fuel Extractions).
Well truth is, I would like to take all the credit for the studies,
however I just followed behind someone else. The original studies was
conducted by a scientist named Dr. Marvin Stelly. The research actually
began back in the early 1980's where Dr. Stelly found that the gator
hides were rich in Byscosin which later became a major ingredient in
fuel additives on the market in early 2000 as EI-5 Fuel Additive; Fuelon
Power; Johnson Fuel Additive; NRG #1 Fuel Additive; QEI 400 Fuel
Additive; Rolfite Upgrade Fuel, just to name a few. The process for
extracting this powerful acid is complex to say the least. With the
modern process a lot of the acids strength is diluted. In our studies
the process we were using was not harming the strength of the products
thus could be used as a fuel source and not just an additive. The
process included Panomics Nuclear Extraction which is ideal for
preparing nuclear extracts for use with Protein/DNA Arrays, TF-TF
Interaction Arrays, and electrophoretic mobility shift assays (EMSA).
The process facilitates the extraction of functional crude nuclear
proteins from various cell types or whole tissue. The protocol is
optimized for about 107 cells (near confluent 100 mm plate or 0.5 g of
tissue). First, cells are allowed to swell with hypotonic buffer. Then,
the cells are disrupted, the cytoplasmic fraction is removed, and the
nuclear proteins are released from the nuclei with a high-salt buffer.
It sounds like it's complicated, but I find it rather simple. Even
though I may be a geek, I've been accused of being a genius once or twice.

 

No Trevor, I do not want anything from you. I have pretty clear records of what I wanted, and what you delivered. I would not have faith in anything shipped from your shop, I'd get those parts directly from SDPC who can provide the expertise I need. As far as the studs, I made it clear what the application was, the block was to replace a 2003 block. The change in studs required was just another surprise expense and delay. I've come to terms that you're a salesman, and push product, not an engine expert.

The only thing I want, is to make it clear that years later I'm still ticked off at having been sold the weak parts instead of strong parts, and was given the run-around, because now I'm revisiting the whole situation. To protect other consumers, there should be some record of it my experience, in forums, better business bureau, online, where ever. It's my right to post negative seller feedback, and it's your right to respond. I'm ticked that the forum (now Internet Brands) removed my sig.

Cyphur, all cars experience detonation. Every car pings or knocks at some point, but the engines are made to be durable enough to withstand some detonation. Bad gas, hot summer days, driving up long freeway inclines, etc. Stock pistons do not handle as much detonation as forged pistons, therefore forged pistons exist. The pistons I was sold were Mahle 4032 brittle silicon/aluminum mix, an OEM replacement mix, and without a quench area. This was represented as a stronger forged piston than the Diamond forged pistons, and thermal coated as well. Quench prevents detonation, the Mahle were full dish. Thermal coating keeps the piston from absorbing much of the 1200degree combustion, pistons melt at 950degrees. Thermal coatings are more to prevent 'holed' or melted pistons, but they provide some protection from absorbing the heat of detonation on the surface of the piston. If the Mahle pistons were coated, they probably still would have cracked at their weak edge between valve relief and piston ring because they're made of brittle alloy. If the pistons were forged 2618 alloy and had a quench deck, they would have had little or no detonation and would not have failed. The engine would have lived until it was broken in and it was time to do a dyno tune.

 

Your signature was likely removed because it does not fit the site rules: Max of 8 text lines or images no larger than 500 X 150.

As far as the motor, always do your research before buying parts. I'm a bit confused as to why you waited so long to bring this up. I understand your frustration, but after 2 years there really isn't any way for the engine builder to know where all this motor has been and what all has been done to it. I am certain if the motor failure was caused by something the machine shop did or something that happened when putting the motor together, they would have taken responsibility. However, you can't really expect a shop to warranty something that has been beat on and the failure can obviously be caused by many factors unrelated to the motor build. A "brittle" piston could have been a factor but at the same time, can you deny that tuning, fuel, and other factors could have caused the failure? I would also suggest trying a different approach when contacting vendors. They might have been a bit more "understanding" to your situation if you would have taken a different approach. Good luck!