Contemplating a Versatrak AWD swap.
10-09-2013, 04:28 PM
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Contemplating a Versatrak AWD swap. I've done a little bit of research about the AWD system used in the Aztek, Rendezvous, and three GM minivans of the last decade. I know the 3400 was used in conjunction with the AWD 4t65e and a 3400 (same bellhousing pattern as the LS4), so what is to stop someone from building up an AWD 4t65e with HD parts and making an AWD LS4 vehicle? I know the Versatrak system is only AWD while the front tires are slipping, but the driveshaft is always receiving power (I believe). The rear differential only engages while slippage is occurring, but why not just replace the rear differential with the one out of a CTS or other RWD vehicle (I mentioned the CTS rear end because there is a complete CTS IRS with suspension and brakes on my local Craigslist for $300)? This should simplify the system and allow for continuous AWD.
Someone please tell me where my thinking is wrong in this. I appreciate anything except "Dumb nooo0ooob"
Someone please tell me where my thinking is wrong in this. I appreciate anything except "Dumb nooo0ooob"
Last edited by LS4_Cavalier; 10-09-2013 at 05:36 PM.
10-09-2013, 05:50 PM
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http://www.neilkline.com/Tech%20Tips/Versatrak.htm
Just wanted to share the most useful article I've found. At some point it states that while active, the rear wheels receive 80% of the power. Hope it's useful.
Just wanted to share the most useful article I've found. At some point it states that while active, the rear wheels receive 80% of the power. Hope it's useful.
10-09-2013, 07:20 PM
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I couldn't say for the Grand Prix, Impala, Malibu, or LaCrosse. I know my '94 Cavalier has been a popular platform for RWD swaps, so routing a driveshaft is doable for me. Maybe you could shed some light on how it would be done with your platform? I don't know about the 6T75, but I'm about to, lol.
Also, would the 6T75 somehow remedy your driveshaft clearance issue?
Another thing, I'm pretty sure Saab uses an AWD F40, meaning if the F40 was built to be bullet proof, you could conceptually have an AWD LS4 manual.
Also, would the 6T75 somehow remedy your driveshaft clearance issue?
Another thing, I'm pretty sure Saab uses an AWD F40, meaning if the F40 was built to be bullet proof, you could conceptually have an AWD LS4 manual.
10-09-2013, 08:00 PM
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LS4_Cav, your speaking my language !! I'm going a different route for AWD, but we'll get to that later. I your sig is updated with Gainesville, I got an old timer up there that knows everything GM - he's helped me build all my transmissions.
Anyway, the 6t75 is a bigger trans and would require an aftermarket controller - PCS has developed one. But if you aim is for a Cavalier them I look toward the 4t65. An AWD F40 would be sweet but finding donor vehicle could a lot harder.
Have you started you build yet/ got any pics? Also, ever make the Turkey Rod Run in Daytona?? If so, come over and check out the Citations - we'll be in club parking next to lake loyd.
Anyway, the 6t75 is a bigger trans and would require an aftermarket controller - PCS has developed one. But if you aim is for a Cavalier them I look toward the 4t65. An AWD F40 would be sweet but finding donor vehicle could a lot harder.
Have you started you build yet/ got any pics? Also, ever make the Turkey Rod Run in Daytona?? If so, come over and check out the Citations - we'll be in club parking next to lake loyd.
10-09-2013, 08:20 PM
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I just updated it, yes. Is he the head of the service department at Chevrolet? Because that guy probably thinks I'm an idiot, lol.
I did a bit of research on the 6T75, and it seems like a more modern approach to the AWD swap, but I'd rather try it with a transmission that is somewhat already mated to the LS4 for now. Maybe then I could delve into a F40 or 6T75 project.
Unfortunately, I have not started this particular build yet. Right now I'm in the middle of building my 3.1 turbo. I need to work out some kinks, try out some experiments, and learn a little more hands-on before I try to squeeze in an LS4, lol. I am going to have a friend in Ft. Myers pick up an LS4 from the U-Pull, though, but I doubt it is still there for the price it was at. Also, I'm thinking of buying a solid coupe before I try this. Something tells me I couldn't reinforce my convertible enough, but who knows. I haven't been to the Turkey Rod Run, but I'll try to make it out next time.
Here's my other build thread, incase anyone is interested in seeing what it looks like to flush money down the toilet, lol. http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyforum/offi...s-t124674.html
I did a bit of research on the 6T75, and it seems like a more modern approach to the AWD swap, but I'd rather try it with a transmission that is somewhat already mated to the LS4 for now. Maybe then I could delve into a F40 or 6T75 project.
Unfortunately, I have not started this particular build yet. Right now I'm in the middle of building my 3.1 turbo. I need to work out some kinks, try out some experiments, and learn a little more hands-on before I try to squeeze in an LS4, lol. I am going to have a friend in Ft. Myers pick up an LS4 from the U-Pull, though, but I doubt it is still there for the price it was at. Also, I'm thinking of buying a solid coupe before I try this. Something tells me I couldn't reinforce my convertible enough, but who knows. I haven't been to the Turkey Rod Run, but I'll try to make it out next time.
Here's my other build thread, incase anyone is interested in seeing what it looks like to flush money down the toilet, lol. http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyforum/offi...s-t124674.html
10-09-2013, 08:35 PM
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Well your in for some fabrication no matter what trans you decide - the casing on the LS4 4t65 is different from all others, and so is the AWD version - you'd have to make a hybrid of the two. My first thought would be to graft a starter mount into the AWD trans.
The Rod Run is awesome - 6,000 show & custom cars, vendors, swap meet & food - fill up inside of the Daytona speedway for the whole Thanksgiving weekend... It's a must for any car guy! You'll want to see Super D's hand built twin turbo 3.1 X-11... It's nasty!!
The Rod Run is awesome - 6,000 show & custom cars, vendors, swap meet & food - fill up inside of the Daytona speedway for the whole Thanksgiving weekend... It's a must for any car guy! You'll want to see Super D's hand built twin turbo 3.1 X-11... It's nasty!!
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10-09-2013, 09:09 PM
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LS4_Cav, your speaking my language !! I'm going a different route for AWD, but we'll get to that later. I your sig is updated with Gainesville, I got an old timer up there that knows everything GM - he's helped me build all my transmissions.
Anyway, the 6t75 is a bigger trans and would require an aftermarket controller - PCS has developed one. But if you aim is for a Cavalier them I look toward the 4t65. An AWD F40 would be sweet but finding donor vehicle could a lot harder.
Have you started you build yet/ got any pics? Also, ever make the Turkey Rod Run in Daytona?? If so, come over and check out the Citations - we'll be in club parking next to lake loyd.
Anyway, the 6t75 is a bigger trans and would require an aftermarket controller - PCS has developed one. But if you aim is for a Cavalier them I look toward the 4t65. An AWD F40 would be sweet but finding donor vehicle could a lot harder.
Have you started you build yet/ got any pics? Also, ever make the Turkey Rod Run in Daytona?? If so, come over and check out the Citations - we'll be in club parking next to lake loyd.
10-09-2013, 09:17 PM
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I couldn't say for the Grand Prix, Impala, Malibu, or LaCrosse. I know my '94 Cavalier has been a popular platform for RWD swaps, so routing a driveshaft is doable for me. Maybe you could shed some light on how it would be done with your platform? I don't know about the 6T75, but I'm about to, lol.
Also, would the 6T75 somehow remedy your driveshaft clearance issue?
Another thing, I'm pretty sure Saab uses an AWD F40, meaning if the F40 was built to be bullet proof, you could conceptually have an AWD LS4 manual.
Also, would the 6T75 somehow remedy your driveshaft clearance issue?
Another thing, I'm pretty sure Saab uses an AWD F40, meaning if the F40 was built to be bullet proof, you could conceptually have an AWD LS4 manual.
I'm sure an AWD setup could be done, but it wouldn't look clean. There is a guy that did an LS6/7 RWD swap in a previous generation Monte Carlo.
And fieroguru did an LS4 F40 swap so he'd be the best to speak with in that arena.
10-10-2013, 11:07 AM
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A twin turbo x-11? That sounds nuts, is there a link to it anywhere on the internet? Also, fabrication is to be expected if you want to build something so weird, lol. I'm friends with the Society of Automotive Engineer guys at UF, and they have a full CNC machine shop that they use to build their small-scale formula car. I'm sure they'd be willing to help me out, maybe they'll even try some stuff out on Solid Works.
A fuel cell in the trunk could work, but that wouldn't be clean looking, like you said. I've seen the F40 Fiero thread, I'll read into it more in depth and try to learn some stuff.
91parkave, are you suggesting an actual RWD swap?
A fuel cell in the trunk could work, but that wouldn't be clean looking, like you said. I've seen the F40 Fiero thread, I'll read into it more in depth and try to learn some stuff.
91parkave, are you suggesting an actual RWD swap?
10-10-2013, 03:27 PM
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Ya, I could totally use some friends with a CNC shop !!
Here's the Twin turbo Citation - http://www.cardomain.com/ride/240298...olet-citation/
There a few other crazy and not so crazy X-11's as well...
Here's the Twin turbo Citation - http://www.cardomain.com/ride/240298...olet-citation/
There a few other crazy and not so crazy X-11's as well...
10-10-2013, 09:31 PM
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A twin turbo 3.1? That is crazy, I only thought one of those was built by Ryan Falconer.
A twin turbo 3.1 HERE IN GAINESVILLE?! AHHHH, TELL HIM I WANT TO MEET HIM!!
I think I've regained my composure.
A twin turbo 3.1 HERE IN GAINESVILLE?! AHHHH, TELL HIM I WANT TO MEET HIM!!
I think I've regained my composure.
Last edited by LS4_Cavalier; 10-10-2013 at 09:41 PM.
10-13-2013, 07:17 AM
#16
PCS now has a stand alone controller for the 6 speed autos. It was R&D'd with an LS2/6T75 in the rear of a fiero:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000136.html
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000136.html
10-13-2013, 07:21 AM
#17
supercharged024 is working on converting an 81 Olds Omega Sport to AWD using the F40 6 speed manual:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...0-6-speed.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...0-6-speed.html
10-16-2013, 04:46 PM
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I read that when you posted it the other day. I don't remember if he actually had the AWD F40 or the FWD one and just considering the AWD, but it should be cool either way.
